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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 30 May 2017

Vol. 952 No. 3

Topical Issue Debate

Farm Inspections

I raise this matter because numerous complaints have been made to me about how individuals, be they farmers, veterinarians or people generally in that sector, are treated by officials. I raised this matter previously in a Topical Issue Debate and I was told at the time that action would be taken. Since then, I must admit that some action was taken. I thank the Taoiseach for his particular interest in the case which I raised that day.

However, the same individuals are now causing the same difficulties with businesses, by entering the business, practice or farm and treating the individuals as if they were criminals and as if a decision had already been made on their case. Actions such as people taking a particular medication from a vehicle, entering an office and taking papers, not explaining who they represent and essentially taking the law into their own hands and treating people very badly comprise the general complaint I am receiving. On the last occasion that I mentioned a case, it was dealt with. It is unusual that the case brought to my attention recently is one in which an individual, who at that time was asked to present himself as a witness and refused to do so on the basis that he had nothing to do with that case, is now being investigated by the Department and being treated like a criminal. Before the case is even heard he is now asked to answer a fitness to practise complaint from the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine.

An individual in this State is innocent until proven guilty. Surely the Department must go through a process to find out the extent of the wrongdoing or non-compliance with a regulation before it goes anywhere else. That is the least one would expect, but that is not happening in this case. I believe it is not happening due to the fact that he refused not so much to co-operate but to support a story, which was untrue, of another veterinarian on another occasion. Protocols and regulations must be put in place to ensure that this does not happen and to ensure an innocent individual, who has not been convicted anywhere, is treated fairly. The leaks from the Department to the media about these cases must be stopped. They are putting jobs in the country at risk as well as the reputation of an individual or individuals who have never been convicted and have yet to go through the process. The Department is using the might of its legal arm and taxpayers' money to chase down those people, break them before they go into court and have their reputations and businesses ruined.

There was a case in which Judge Reynolds made certain references to individuals. That type of case still occurs. I am aware of one such case. It is really offensive that the State would ruin a person's life and business without first going to the courts and finding out the facts. I also believe the might of the State's legal arm and taxpayers' money should not be used to force an individual into a position where they must accept something that they believe they are innocent of, because they cannot afford, on either a reputation or financial basis, to go through the courts. It is unacceptable.

I thank Deputy McGuinness for raising this matter. Officials in my Department carry out a significant range of on-farm inspections annually for the various EU funded schemes and other sector-specific requirements. Inspections are also carried out on commercial producers, wholesale and retail outlets, meat plants, milk processing facilities and forestry nurseries. Veterinary related controls cover a wide range of regulatory activity including animal health, animal welfare, veterinary medicines, animal identification and registration, animal movement, fallen stock and animal by-products and public health.

The EU regulation governing the various area-based direct payment schemes and rural development measures requires my Department to carry out on-the-spot inspections annually to ensure compliance with the eligibility criteria of the various schemes. Inspections are also required to ensure compliance with cross-compliance requirements, as set down in EU legislation, and the standards for good agricultural and environmental condition, GAEC. These inspections are mandatory and there are certain minimum numbers and types of inspections that must take place annually. These EU funded schemes are worth approximately €1.5 billion annually to farmers. Inspecting officers undergo regular training on the procedures for inspections and carry out inspections in accordance with the EU regulations. Procedures and guidance documents issue to all officers. Inspections are subject to supervisory and performance checks to ensure accuracy and consistency.

There is a comprehensive review and appeal system in place for applicants if they consider that inspections are not conducted in accordance with legislative requirements or if they are unhappy with the inspection findings. This incorporates an internal review process and the option to appeal the outcome of any such review to the independent agriculture appeals office. In the event that an applicant is not satisfied with the outcome he or she may pursue the matter further with the Office of the Ombudsman.

As indicated, controls by veterinary personnel and other departmental officials cover a broad range of areas including animal health, animal welfare, veterinary medicines, animal identification and registration, animal movement, fallen stock, animal by-products and public health. Each of the inspections is carried out using standardised forms and reporting arrangements with a system of oversight by line managers, fulfilling requirements relating to EU or national legislation. Officials from the investigation division of my Department conduct a small number of investigations where serious non-compliance is suspected. At the end of the investigation, the evidence is assessed to determine if the matter is to be prosecuted. In such cases, a file is prepared and sent to the Office of the Chief State Solicitor for assessment and, if appropriate, the commencement of the prosecution process.

In addition to compliance with EU and national legislation requirements on inspections, the Charter of Farmers' Rights agreed between my Department and the various farming organisations sets out commitments relating to inspections. Compliance by Department officials with these commitments is reviewed regularly by the independently chaired farmers' charter monitoring committee. My Department has a customer complaints procedure which allows an individual to have his or her case examined. All complaints are investigated thoroughly. This procedure involves a three step process and if the complainant is still not satisfied with the response it is open to him or her to contact the Office of the Ombudsman.

I assure the House that the various inspection regimes operated by officials of my Department are implemented in accordance with EU and national legislation governing these requirements. The inspection regimes are subject to audit by various EU, national and certifying bodies to ensure compliance with the requirements. Furthermore, inspections and investigations are carried out in line with the principles of the farmers' charter, including that of treating everyone properly, fairly, impartially and with courtesy.

Finally, officials in my Department, including all inspecting officers, are required to comply with the requirements of the Ethics in Public Office Acts 1995 and 2011 and, where applicable, complete an annual statement of interest.

All of that sounds fine but it is not what has happened in this case. Due procedure was not followed and the individual veterinarian is almost guilty before he is taken through the process. Surely the Minister can intervene to insist that justice be done and that the regulations and process be adhered to. I ask him to do that. I gave him the details of the case last week. I stress the fact that because of what happened historically this individual is now caught up in the antics of a veterinarian from the Department, which is carrying out an investigation that does not comply with any standards at all.

Furthermore, what action can the Minister take against a veterinarian within the Department who is breaking the law by providing unlabelled bottles for intravenous medication and so forth? Who monitors that? What action will the Minister take on the case I outlined to him to prevent further damage to the business concerned and to ensure that everything is done in accordance with best practice? That includes the leaking of information to the media to blacken a person's name. There were two cases, the Fannin and Farrell cases, before the courts and they were dealt with but the Department never came back to the people to pay what it should have paid. It never addressed the Judge Reynolds judgment.

Now the same thing is happening again. Veterinarians within the Department are doing what they like to individuals, going into offices and taking paperwork. In the case in question, the secretary left. In the previous case, it was a pregnant woman in the office whom they offended. They would not comply with the requirements of the Garda either. Something has to be done to stop the individual concerned from doing what is going on in Kilkenny.

Nobody, be he an official in my Department or anybody else, is above the law. If the Deputy knows of allegations of illegality in respect of anybody in my Department, I would appreciate it if he would make them available and we can arrange to have an inspection carried out. There is no hiding place in my Department for anybody who operates outside the law.

We can furnish details after the debate.

I abhor media-inspired leaks about cases under investigation. I am not aware of the contact point for the stories in question. Leaks make cases that are difficult more difficult to adjudicate on in a fair and impartial manner.

On the specific case to which the Deputy is alluding but not referencing, which I appreciate, he will appreciate the sub judice rule. He will also appreciate that I cannot comment on a specific instance because the case is listed before the courts. I assure him, however, that for officers of my Department involved in inspections across a range of activities, including veterinary and other inspectors, there is a code of practice which is framed within the context of EU and domestic legislation. The code which has been in place since 2004 is under review. I hope all those employed in my Department carry out their duties in accordance with it. I refer, in particular, to the obligation to be civil and courteous to those under investigation or subject to spot checks. In recent days the Deputy furnished me with the details of a specific case, about which I am inquiring further in my Department. It would not be appropriate at this stage, therefore, to comment further on the matter.

Child Protection

I thank the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Katherine Zappone, for taking this Topical Issue in the light of yesterday's report which made for harrowing reading, to say the least. I commend Dr. Geoffrey Shannon for the audit he conducted and also An Garda Síochána for requesting it. The findings are absolutely shocking and horrifying, to say the very least. We are not talking about historical cases but about the current context. We are talking about cases dating from 2014 and 2015 which are now before us. In 2012 we voted to enshrine the rights of children into the Constitution, but what good is that if we are leaving some of the most vulnerable children exposed to horrific abuse? Clearly, we need strong inter-agency co-operation to ensure the rights of the child are upheld. We discovered yesterday that inter-agency co-operation was not taking place.

We are talking about a 24-hour service which we have in four counties in the entire country. The rest of the country does not have an out-of-hours service. The ISPCC has been discussing the issue and was bringing it to the attention of previous Governments for the past ten years. It is absolutely shocking. What is the Minister going to do to address the issue of having a 24-hour, out-of-hours social care service which social care workers have been looking for? We need to know that the Minister has confidence in Tusla and that she and her Department will support its expansion. I also want her to address the issue of recruitment.

It is fair to say the revelations in the report on yesterday evening's programme were deeply upsetting and quite shocking. Some of the examples given and cases highlighted indicated that children were on the floor with excrement on their clothes and in dirt. Some violence may have been inflicted on children in public places. The case that stood out the most for me was that of the child identified as Mark. It is quite chilling to think he may still be in circumstances of abuse and neglect. It was quite shocking.

There are two issues that I believe need to be followed up. The first was touched on by Deputy Anne Rabbitte, namely, having a 24-hour resource. This is a matter on which the Garda respondents touched. They suggested the system was systematically inadequate and under-resourced and could not facilitate access to case files on particular children. There should be a 24-hour resource. Having a telephone line is simply not enough. There should be a real, substantial resource.

The shocking revelations indicate a broken, dysfunctional system. We cannot just have periodic expressions of outrage and then move on. We need concrete action to make sure this will not happen again. Central to this is implementing the recommendations made, but we have to go beyond this. The report was excellent, but it covered a very discrete area of child protection, specifically related to section 12 of the Child Care Act. We have come across various issues in recent years in regard to Tusla. Public confidence in the agency is quite low. We are now compelled to consider the overall child protection picture. We would benefit greatly from an audit of the child protection system of the kind carried out by Dr. Geoffrey Shannon. The Government should appoint a leading independent expert to head up such an audit, a much broader audit, across the range of child protection structures in place in the State.

I thank the Deputies for raising this important issue. I am conscious that Dr. Shannon's report has given rise to serious and understandable concerns and welcome the opportunity to set out the actions being taken.

Under section 12 of the Child Care Act 1991, An Garda Síochána has the power to remove a child urgently from a situation for his or her safety and welfare. Tusla social workers have no powers to enter a home or remove a child from a dangerous situation in an emergency.

The issues raised in Dr. Shannon's report can be summarised under the following headings: inter-agency co-operation and communication; the repeated application of section 12; section 12 and out-of-hours services; and the lack of suitable emergency accommodation, leading to young people being admitted to hospital or kept safe at Garda stations.

On inter-agency co-operation and communication, Dr. Shannon's review examined PULSE data from 2008 to 2015, all cases where section 12 had been applied by An Garda Síochána in 2014 and a sample of cases where it had been applied in 2015. Since this time, Tusla has been fully established and set up processes to enhance inter-agency working. Both An Garda Síochána and Tusla confirm that there is excellent communication and co-operation at senior management level. It is recognised that there is always a need to ensure this is realised at local level. In order to address this, both organisations have recently developed a joint protocol on the use of section 12 of the Child Care Act 1991 which I am assured will be signed off on by the two organisations very shortly. The joint protocol covers the application of section 12 and the process to be adopted during office hours and out-of-office hours as emergencies arise, in addition to notifications to Tusla.

A dedicated Tusla official will be co-located at the Garda national child protection unit in the coming days. Divisional protective services units are being established in all 28 Garda divisions and effective liaison with Tusla will be a feature of these units.

In addition to the high-level Garda and Tusla strategic liaison committee, Tusla has put in place dedicated intake teams that monitor and manage section 12 cases, including consideration of the repeated use of section 12. It has set up a team to review the contextual and situational factors and their actions in the 91 cases cited in Dr. Shannon's report and to consider the common themes arising. The actions in these specific cases and the overall concerns raised in the report will be examined by the Tusla team. The team will also consider specific cases to clarify the number of and reasons for repeat applications of section 12. The report will be completed by the end of June.

With regard to the out-of-hours social work service, a significant enhancement of the service took place in November 2015. A national service now exists which facilitates 24-hour Garda contact with a social worker in cases where the removal of a child under section 12 is being contemplated. It facilitates emergency foster and residential care for children who are removed from their families under this provision. As part of this service, social workers are available on the ground at night, over weekends and bank holidays to assist the Garda Síochána in the busiest areas of Dublin, Cork city, Kildare and Wicklow. In light of Dr. Shannon’s report, I have asked Tusla to look at the current demand for a similar service in the rest of the country. Tusla will report back to me when it has reviewed this.

In line with best child care practice, the majority of emergency accommodation is provided with foster family carers. This meets the needs of the majority of children admitted in an emergency situation. There are some situations where family care is not suitable, including where the young person is under the influence of alcohol or drugs, or is exhibiting suicidal ideation and may require medical assessment or treatment in hospital. I have been assured that social admission to hospital only takes place in exceptional cases and where such a placement is for the safety of the young person. I will be meeting Dr. Shannon within the coming week to discuss further the matters raised in his audit.

I thank the Minister for her response. She spoke about the national service that came into being in 2015. I am not being flippant here, but there are more than four counties in Ireland. We have to look at the whole of Ireland and at the 26 counties. Where are we going to roll this out if it is already being called a national service at this moment in time? I personally believe that it is falling far short. We have to be looking throughout the whole of the country to know that we have a 24-hour service. The period in which most of these calls are made is from 10 p.m. at night to 3 a.m. in the morning. That is when An Garda Síochána is most needed to be called into service. Gardaí do not have proper training as child protection workers or social care workers. That is why we need to crank it up so that we have social care workers working 24 hours a day. We also need weekend cover. That is what the ISPCC keeps saying. We need weekend cover and cover after 5 p.m. as well.

There needs to be a radical overhaul of the current system. I completely concur with what Deputy Ó Laoghaire is after saying. We should bring in Dr. Shannon to look at child protection in its entirety. We should not just focus in on section 12 cases. If we look back over the cases we have discussed in this House over the last number of weeks, we have talked about the Grace case and the Mary case. Child protection needs to be looked at in its entirety.

I will pick up the first point raised by Deputy Rabbitte. Yes, there have been improvements in some counties in the out-of-hours social worker services and I recognise that there is a contact number for gardaí, but, as I said, gardaí have found it to be generally inadequate and under-resourced. It is an important issue. They have not been able to facilitate access to case files on particular children. That is my understanding at least from the respondents' answers. It hampers their ability to make informed decisions.

The Minister read the prepared full response and did not have the opportunity to respond to the audit point. I ask her to respond to that. I believe it is important as it would assist us. There are gardaí, social workers, people in management in Tusla and people in the Department doing their best, but a full audit of child protection services throughout the State is needed, rather than dealing with this in a piecemeal basis. I thank Deputy Rabbitte for her support on this call. It would allow us to take a step back, view the system in its entirety and offer us a roadmap to delivering a high-quality child protection service for the twenty-first century in order to be able to live up to the commitments of the children's referendum.

I will first address the question of the sufficiency or adequacy of the out-of-hours services. As I already indicated, the establishment of full social work service teams in those four areas is something new and enhanced since the audit was undertaken in 2015. Why the four areas? Because that is where most of the cases occur. That enhancement also has to do with the establishment of Tusla and of seven regions for the purpose of having a social worker on call out of hours to engage directly with a child in particular circumstances. I heard Deputy Rabbitte saying that perhaps that is not sufficient. I know others are calling for it to be extended. I have asked Tusla to review the adequacy of the wider availability of speaking directly to a social worker in the other places where the use of section 12 are not as frequent. Tusla will give me an analysis and I will look at decisions on whether or not it is the most effective way to use resources throughout the country and have social work teams available everywhere for out-of-hours service when it may not be required from an efficiency perspective. At the same time, we must ensure that our children are protected. We are looking at it. It is one of the issues, but there has been an enhancement of the service.

In response to Deputy Ó Laoghaire's point, since 2015 there has been improved access to the child protection register for An Garda Síochána. That was not the case before. Gardaí can get access to and take a look at a file to see what the risk of harm is for a particular child when they are making considerations with regard to section 12.

With regard to Deputy Ó Laoghaire's question about a full audit of the child protection system, as always, I am willing to consider recommendations or suggestions from the Deputy. One of the first things I will ensure in the audit that we have - involving the inter-agency group of a strategic liaison committee between An Garda Síochána, Tusla and the HSE - is that we will take a look within a year's time at the recommendations, whether they have been implemented and whether they have been moved forward. In addition, as the Deputy knows, there are a number of other reviews that are going on in the context of Tusla. I need to look at those first before making a decision to call for a wider audit in order to see whether or not there would be overlap in that regard. However, I will consider the Deputy's suggestions on that.

Road Projects

St. Catherine's Park, also known as Lucan Demesne, is a very beautiful regional park created in the Liffey valley. It serves three counties. Fingal is the largest part of it, followed by Kildare as well as Lucan in south County Dublin. It is a regional park for three counties. People have become very concerned in recent times as to whether or not a major new road may be built through the park. I have to say that one of my proudest achievements as a Minister in the 1990s, along with then Minister, Michael D. Higgins, was securing funding for the purchase of the lands at St. Catherine's Park in the Lucan Demesne from the farming family that had made it available for sale. Importantly, it is also in the Liffey valley amenity area, which is a protected area of amenity that is absolutely vital to the enormous populations that live in Dublin 15, from Castleknock out to Mulhuddart and Clonsilla, in Lucan, Palmerstown and north Clondalkin, and in Leixlip and the surrounding areas in Kildare.

Controversy arose recently when it was discovered that an indicative road line in the Fingal county plan showed a major new road cutting through the Liffey valley right on the Dublin-Kildare border. The indicative line clearly shows that the road would basically slice straight through St. Catherine's Park, affecting the whole of the park, but - I have to be honest - particularly the Kildare side. The reason I want to raise this issue with the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Ross, is that I am aware, as I am sure the Minister is in his own constituency, that people like road engineers and planners from time to time put down desire lines, indicative lines and such like on how we might have a major new road or road linkage in a particular spot but are oblivious to the concerns and interests of the local community. In this case, the N3 and the N4 to the west of Dublin might be linked by a road through this indicative line that would basically avoid the M50.

The destruction of this wonderful regional park would be far too high a price to pay. If it was to go through, given the topography of the area with the Liffey located down in a valley with the heights on the south and north sides, it would effectively require another much larger high-level bridge over the Liffey so it would be extraordinarily expensive.

The existing indicative route could not only destroy St. Catherine's Park, it would bring HGV traffic into the Ongar-Littlepace area in Dublin 15 to the particular detriment of estates with thousands of families, including Beechfield, Blackwood and Littlepace. The Minister could set aside the fears of residents by making a clear statement. I want the Minister to ensure that notwithstanding various plans that may come from Transport Infrastructure Ireland, the Liffey valley amenity is preserved. In respect of the capital plan, which is inadequately funded, as the Minister is aware, I had no idea that we could spend ransom sums of money on a huge new bridge over the Liffey at this point. I would like to hear whether the Minister has been briefed on this and whether he is aware of it. I know he is very positive about parks and green spaces as amenities, as am I. I would like to get his assurances on this point.

I thank the Deputy for raising this subject. On the surface, the destruction of amenities is something we must take very seriously. I accept what the Deputy has said, particularly if a park is in danger of being destroyed or divided and if communities are being badly affected. Have I been briefed on this? Today was the first time I knew about this so I have not been briefed on it in any detail but I am aware of it. The Deputy has put a strong case but she might be in the wrong place.

I would like to clarify that link roads are generally regional or local roads and as the Deputy will be aware, the development and maintenance of such roads is the statutory responsibility of the relevant local authority in accordance with the provisions of section 13 of the Roads Act 1993, as amended. The selection and prioritisation of works to be funded is, therefore, a matter for the local authority concerned. Nonetheless the possibility that the lives of people in St. Catherine's Park could be ruined must be taken very seriously if this is a real plan. I know it is only an indicative plan at the moment. It is also a matter for the relevant local authority in its capacity as the planning authority for its area to consider and adopt a development plan. My Department has no function with regard to such matters.

Where road projects are adopted, works are funded from local authorities' own resources supplemented by State road grants, where applicable. Arising from the arrangements in place relating to local property tax receipts, the four Dublin councils became self-funding for regional and local roads under the main road grant categories from 2015. These grant programmes cover general road maintenance and strengthening, safety improvement and bridge rehabilitation works. Provision was made in the capital plan for the upgrade of roads in the vicinity of Grange Castle Business Park and the Department is providing grant assistance for that strategic scheme. This is, however, the only strategic road project in the Dublin area being grant assisted at present.

The NTA's transport strategy for the greater Dublin area, GDA, 2016-35 sets out principles for future road development in the GDA. The strategy refers to the future enhancement of orbital movement between the N3 and N4 by widening existing roads and the development of new road links. As I have outlined above, however, implementation of any such measures is a matter for the local authorities concerned.

Even though it is entirely a matter for the local authorities, my division made inquires of Fingal County Council today and got some information that the proposed link between the N3 and N4 has been a specific objective of Fingal's county development plan since 2005. The road proposal is shown on sheet 13 of the current Fingal development plan 2017-23. A small portion of the road proposal is also indicated in table seven of the current development as road schemes N3 and N4 link Ongar to Barnhill. This would allow for access to zoned residential lands to the south of Hansfield train station on lands known as Barnhill. All road proposals in the county development plan are indicative. The N3-N4 link road is an indicative line on the development plan and no detailed route alignment map with a selection of road between the N4 and the approved road alignment within the zoned lands at Barnhill is available for inspection on the Fingal website.

I thank the Minister for his reply and for taking an interest in this proposal. This is a park of under 200 acres in an area with the most enormous population growth. I invite the Minister to see it because the Liffey runs through it and there are plenty of opportunities for the Royal Canal and the Liffey to be linked via a pedestrian footbridge up at the Royal Canal and to expand a very significant walking, and possibly cycling, route for west Dublin and possibly continue it on the southside. This could eventually link up with the cycle way that is being developed in Dublin Bay via a Liffey route. We should exercise our imagination about the potential of this for people living in very heavily congested areas. This is an enormous amenity that is widely used. Admittedly, when I persuaded the then Government to acquire this land, a proposal supported by Michael D. Higgins, Bertie Ahern and John Bruton, it was with a view to providing an amenity for people.

I hear what the Minister is saying, namely, that his Department has no role in respect of regional roads. He referenced the Hansfield development. Hansfield is a special development zone that has been zoned for over ten years which if completed, would provide for another 3,000 houses. Those houses would be very popular with people and I am totally in favour of that. However, the road entry that is required for that does not impact at all on Lucan Demesne or St. Catherine's Park. It is quite a distance away. It is the question of that route, which would be relatively small and which is needed to access the housing, not then being used as a Trojan Horse to create a linkage at that point and in St. Catherine's Park between the N3 and N4. If the council is telling the Minister that it needs the Hansfield access route to be developed, I would say "Yes" in the context of housing but that has nothing to do with that then passing over the Liffey or potentially destroying St. Catherine's Park. Although Fingal County Council has given the Minister information, what it has given him is not quite fair. I can certainly given the Minister more details. When he sees the detailed map, he will see what I mean.

The only part of the road that is indicated on the current development plan is within the zoned lands at Hansfield-Ongar to serve the existing schools and residential development. A Part 8 procedure for local authority development has also provided for the design of a section of road to cross over the railway line south of this into zoned residential lands at Barnhill. No work has been done on the construction of this section of road to date and no further design or route options further south have been commenced.

If it is any comfort to the Deputy, I am sure she will already know that any impact on the Liffey valley and St. Catherine's Park, to which she referred, would be carefully considered in any design process or route options.

Furthermore, any project of the likely scale required for the proposed road would have to follow the processes required under various EU directives and related Irish legislation, including the environmental impact assessment, EIA, directive and the habitats directive. These environmental assessments must take account of a number of environmental receptors and themes, including landscape, cultural heritage, biodiversity, impact on humans, material assets, air and noise. They must also look at realistic alternative options and set out the preferred option. This will be subject to public consultation in the future. This is all set out in legislation. There has to be an integral and transparent part of any decision-making process for the identification of any proposed new road route and design. As I outlined above, no process has started for this road proposal.

Disability Services Provision

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for allowing me to raise this very important issue here this evening. I am delighted that the Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath - who has been a champion of disability rights for years - is answering it, but I do not know how he is going to answer this one, because it is just not very fair.

Under the Disability Act 2005, the assessment of need must begin no later than three months after receiving a completed application and be completed no later than three months after the date it begins. In December 2016, a constituent of mine who was told that her daughter would be waiting 12 months for an assessment of needs made a complaint to the disability complaints officer. At that time, she had complaint number 1,111 about the application of the assessment of need process, and she was told that there was a five to six month delay in even responding to complaints. I ask the Minister of State, for God's sake, if that is right in this day and age? Her complaint was received in December 2016, and now, in May 2017, she is still months from her complaint even being heard. This child was referred for an assessment of need in May 2016. We are only one day from the end of May 2017, and there is no sign of any assessment of need coming down the tracks. It is now likely that it will be May 2018 before the child is assessed. That is shocking.

Just yesterday, I had two separate calls from parents whose children are attending child and adult mental health services, CAMHS, with severe social anxiety and other mental health issues. These children have been referred to the early intervention and disability services team for an assessment of needs, but they have been told not to expect one for 12 to 18 months. These children are due to start secondary school in September and have no services. Even the fact that they have received urgent referrals from CAMHS should be sufficient to ensure these children are seen to, but that is not sufficient. There are major issues even after the assessment, where children who have been assessed are left waiting for occupational therapy, speech and language, and physiotherapy, among other services. What are we doing?

The issue with staff vacancies has compounded an already dreadful situation in Clonmel, south Tipperary, and throughout the county and it needs to be addressed urgently. What is the HSE doing to ensure that these vacancies are filled? The last Topical Issue matter here was about children's rights and the abuse of children in Tusla. Legislation on children was passed here. The Government campaigned for a referendum which I campaigned against, and children have been flagrantly violated. It is just as bad again to allow children on the autism spectrum and with many other disabilities to be in a situation where they cannot even get a diagnosis. If they can get a diagnosis, then at the age of 11 or 12, they cannot get any support when intending to attend secondary school. This is outrageous and it is happening on the Minister of State's watch. When he was on this side of the House, he was always jumping up and down about these issues, and rightly so. I want to know now what he is going to do about these services. It is appalling.

When some people telephone the HSE, they are told that services have been suspended. I heard from Mr. Chris Monahan, the senior manager there, that it is not suspended, but the services may as well be suspended, because one has to wait 12 or 15 months. When one makes a complaint, that person finds that he or she might be placed at 1,111 on the list of complaints. There are over 1,100 complaints in Tipperary alone. How in God's name are we going to deal with that system? How is the Minister of State going to make a difference to this situation? We have layers of bureaucracy. We have all chiefs and no Indians. When is the Minister of State going to get physiotherapists, occupational therapy specialists and other people in place with the necessary qualifications to deal with the rights that these children and their parents are entitled to? It cannot not just be lip service and people being fobbed off and told to wait until next year. These children cannot wait. They need these services now. I ask the Minister of State to make some meaningful reply and not read out a load of waffle and spin from the Department, because I will not accept it.

I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue. I will not read out any spin. I will deal with the facts and lay on the line exactly what is happening. I am pleased to respond and update the Deputy and the House on the progress under way in developing services for children with disabilities and the current position on waiting times for assessment of need, in particular with regard to the disability services in South Tipperary.

Under the Disability Act 2005, a child can request an assessment of need. The HSE recognises that it faces significant challenges in respect of meeting the statutory timeframes which apply to the assessment of need process. I accept that as a valid argument. The number of applications for assessment under the Act has increased steadily each year since the Act was introduced. More than 6,000 applications were received country-wide last year. This compares with just over 1,000 in 2007. There are 6,000 applications in there. This increase has created a requirement for additional resources, particularly in the area of psychology, in order to meet the demand for assessments and the provision of therapies.

There is an overall shortage of psychologists nationally and there is also a problem in south Tipperary. We accept that as a fact of life. There is, at present, a deficit in psychology services, a function which is essential for the completion of the assessment of need report. In October 2016, approval was given to recruit for an additional full-time senior psychologist post for the south Tipperary early intervention team. However, the recruitment process via the national recruitment service was unsuccessful. That is a problem that we have. The HSE has subsequently approved one full-time basic grade psychology position for south Tipperary. In the meantime, one has to deal with the crisis. In addition, the HSE in South Tipperary has had to engage a private psychologist, who is conducting four assessments per month, along with speech and language therapists. However, the south Tipperary psychology service for school-age children has been suspended on an interim basis, given ongoing staffing deficits and pending filling of posts.

The HSE and I acknowledge the concerns of the Deputy and parents and we regret the difficulties in accessing assessment services. The local management in South Tipperary is working toward resolving this issue as quickly as possible. The current programme for partnership Government commits to improving services and increasing supports for people with disabilities, particularly in the areas of early assessment and intervention for children with special needs. The HSE has recognised that early intervention services and services for school-aged children with disabilities need to be improved and organised more effectively. I accept those points.

To this end, a major reconfiguration of therapy resources for children with disabilities aged up to 18 years is well under way. The national programme, "Progressing Disability Services for Children and Young People", from zero to 18, aims to bring staff from different service providers together into children’s disability network teams. Since 2014, the roll-out of the programme has entailed targeted investment of €14 million and the provision of 275 additional therapy staff to increase services for children with disabilities. The HSE service plan for 2017 commits to completing this process of reconfiguration by the end of this year and it is expected that this will have a significant and very positive impact on our ability to meet the needs of children and young people, and in particular on our ability to comply with statutory timeframes governing assessment of need.

I asked the Minister of State to deal with the situation and not read out a statement of waffle like that.

That is not waffle.

What the Minister of State just read is of little use to the parents and children who need these services. It is total balderdash. When I hear statements in HSE-speak about "reconfiguration of services", I shudder, because that is all it is good for - reconfiguring.

What services are there? They are services that we do not have. A total of 1,111 complaints were lodged. There are commitments that complaints would be heard at a certain time.

They broke every commitment they gave. I am surprised at the Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath, because he has been passionate about disability rights over the years, giving me that kind of a reply which referred to the reconfiguration of services and stating that a private psychologist has been hired to conduct assessments of need, at four per month. With so many waiting, children will not see the psychologist until they are married or they are in their 80s or in their graves. It is a joke to give me this kind of an answer.

This is ineptitude of the highest order. There are too many chiefs and not enough ordinary therapists. The HSE got approval to recruit but it failed to do so. It did not try very hard. Its people are more interested in recruiting managers for their staff and their own posts. It is the same in the case of nurses. Wards in hospitals have been closed because the HSE cannot get nurses. It can get plenty of managers and other officials but cannot get the staff for the services the Minister of State, under the children's rights legislation, is obliged to provide. It cannot get the therapists to provide these services.

This is a disgraceful response to give me and the constituents of Tipperary, who I represent, as well as to other Deputies from all over the country. It is shameful to treat our children like this. We are paying them lip-service, as did the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Zappone, who spoke before the Minister of State on other issues. We have all the regulations, CEOs, offices and Tusla.

In this case, we have HSE staff. I was told last night there was no suspension of services but the Minister of State stated there was. Who is codding whom? The services are not there; they have been suspended. There is a total lack of engagement, a lack of interest and a lack of humanity in treating parents and children, especially heading into secondary school with all the pressures that brings, without even being seen by a psychologist, not to mention any support services.

The Minister of State should have a big think tank. If there is to be a new Taoiseach next week, the Government will hold a mid-term review of the programme for Government. It is time the Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath, and the Independent Alliance put their foot down and got services for those who are entitled to them.

Nobody is codding Deputy Mattie McGrath or any parent on this issue. This is an important issue for all of us, and we accept that. The reality is we have an issue of staffing and getting psychologists. The reality, which the Deputy ignored when he stated nothing is being done, is that €14 million has been invested in these services but I accept the point that it is not enough.

If one looks at the therapy services over the past 12 or 13 months, one will see an additional 275 were provided nationally. In south Tipperary, there is the additional full-time psychologist. I accept that it is not enough, and I take the Deputy's point in that regard, but it is wrong to say we are doing nothing.

I will outline to Deputy Mattie McGrath three measures we are taking over the next couple of weeks. The HSE has established a working group to examine the current practices involved in the continued performance against targets in this activity with a view of identifying best practice and issuing recommendations, and to update the guidelines to improve performance.

There is no performance.

I am answering Deputy Mattie McGrath but he will not listen to the facts and the truth. The HSE has also established a national therapy service review group to address the issues the Deputy raised in relation to therapy waiting lists, speech and language therapy and occupational therapy.

The final task I will ensure the HSE group does is agree revised national models of therapy provision that will be standardised across all community health care organisations.

Round and round we go.

The Independent Alliance will be to the forefront-----

Show me the money.

-----fighting for services for all children and adults with disability in the State.

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