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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 27 Jun 2017

Vol. 955 No. 3

Priority Questions

National Broadband Plan

Timmy Dooley

Question:

53. Deputy Timmy Dooley asked the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment the status of the national broadband plan; the deadline by which 100% of premises will have access to broadband; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30142/17]

I ask the Minister to update the House on the national broadband plan. What deadline now exists for 100% coverage, in line with the various recommendations and promises made on numerous occasions by this and the previous Government?

The Government's national broadband plan will provide high-speed broadband access to all premises in Ireland through commercial networks or by State intervention. The plan has catalysed investment so that to date approximately 1.4 million or 61% of the 2.3 million premises in Ireland can get commercial high-speed broadband of a minimum of 30 Mbps. In April, I signed a commitment agreement with Eir, which will provide broadband to an additional 300,000 premises in rural areas on a commercial basis. Eir has committed to concluding this work over a 90-week period at an average of 500 premises passed per day. My Department is monitoring this roll-out. 

There are approximately 2.3 million premises in Ireland, of which approximately 542,000 or 23% are located in the intervention area on the map. These premises will require State intervention and are the focus for the procurement process. The remaining premises are located in the blue areas and will be served by commercial operators. A formal procurement process is in train to select a company or companies that will roll out a new high-speed broadband network within the State intervention area. The timeframe for the procurement continues to be dependent on a range of factors, including the complexities that may be encountered by the procurement team and the bidders during the procurement process.

Shorter-term measures to enhance broadband availability include the implementation of the mobile and broadband task force recommendations and the ComReg auction of the 3.6 GHz radio spectrum band, which resulted in the award of 15-year licences covering urban and rural regions across the country. In addition, I have secured an €8 million provision for RTE to allow it to free up the 700 MHz spectrum band, which is particularly suited to rural environments where the signal can travel long distances. These initiatives should assist in enhancing the quality of mobile phone and data services across Ireland and particularly in rural Ireland. 

My Department's website provides comprehensive information including broadband roll-out information per county, a copy of the Eir commitment agreement and information on the mobile and broadband task force.  

I thank the Minister for his reply. Those in the 542,000 homes and businesses in rural areas who do not have broadband, who will not have commercial broadband and whose service will not be enhanced by anything the Minister has said with regard to the mobile world want to know when they can expect to see a tender go to the marketplace. What kind of expectation is there in terms of a completion date? I ask the Minister to set out a timetable for when he expects to see the contracts signed, the work beginning and the work being completed. The fact that the Minister has spent most of the time for his initial reply talking about anything other than that is deeply worrying to me and to the occupants of the aforementioned 542,000 premises. They are really concerned because there is no clarity as to when, or if, the work will be completed. I ask the Minister to confirm that the three tenderers for this work are still interested. Have they indicated whether they are still interested in this project, given the way in which it has been handled by the Department?

Twelve months ago, 52% of premises had access to high-speed broadband. My focus is on delivery and not dates. In 77 weeks' time, 77% of premises will have access to high-speed broadband. During my short period in office, I have ensured that one in every four premises in Ireland, the vast majority of which are in rural Ireland, will have access to high-speed broadband. Many of those premises will have access to speeds of 1,000 Mbps. What we are talking about is a rate of 300 farms every single week getting fibre to their door. That is happening as we speak.

I am a bit disappointed with Deputy Dooley's comment to the effect that the 541,000 premises in rural areas will not be getting anything in the short term. Imagine is rolling out its infrastructure as we speak, providing up to 70 Mbps right across rural Ireland. Last week I was in Longford to launch a new initiative by Eurona Ireland which is providing high-speed broadband to rural areas too. Investment is going on in rural areas and through the mobile and broadband task force, we are assisting the companies that are currently spending €1.7 million per day to ramp up that investment right across rural Ireland in terms of mobile data and wireless broadband services.

I cannot believe what I am hearing. Is the Minister living in the real world? He is starting to believe the press releases from commercial operators who, in an effort to get some publicity for the services they are providing, invited him to cut the tape and he is coming in here, believing he had something to do with it. There was supposed to be a national broadband plan that required State intervention to provide services to 542,000 homes. The initial figure was 700,000. Eir has signed an agreement that effectively says that it will do that on a commercial basis. The Minister and the Department have had no role whatsoever. The Minister has quoted what Imagine and other commercial operators are doing but that is about as relevant as what is going on in Timbuktu with its broadband. The Minister has had no role in it and has done nothing to assist the 542,000 premises, whose occupants expected to have a service provided, supported and funded by the State. The Minister, by his efforts to shift responsibility to somebody else, is calling into question whether the Government is committed to supporting the provision of services to those 542,000 homes. By taking credit for the roll-out on a commercial basis, the Minister is hiding the fact that there are people that the Government has seemingly forgotten about. The Minister is more interested in telling us what other companies are doing in order to hide or mask what the State should be doing.

I will stand over the investment that is taking place. It is taking place because of the work that is going on in the Department and because of the national broadband plan. Deputy Dooley is trying to twist-----

The national broadband plan is going nowhere.

I did not interrupt the Deputy.

I was talking sense.

Deputy Dooley is trying to twist what the national broadband plan is about. The national broadband plan will deliver high-speed broadband to 2.3 million premises across Ireland on both a commercial and State intervention basis.

In response to the Deputy's specific question, the three tenderers are still interested and are still involved in the bidding process. This is a 25-year contract and it is important that we get it right, not just for tomorrow and the day after but for next year, the year after and for the 25 years ahead-----

The process started in 2012.

I am not going to stand over a situation where we have signed a contract, like previous Governments have done in the past-----

Deputy Naughten was part of those Governments.

-----with contractors where the infrastructure, when it was rolled out, was actually obsolete the day it was turned on. We are going to have infrastructure in place right across rural Ireland that will be the most modern in the world. It will be responsive to the needs of rural Ireland over the next 25 years and will put rural Ireland at the fore, not at the tail end of things.

Only if one happens to be in the commercial zone.

Post Office Network

Brian Stanley

Question:

54. Deputy Brian Stanley asked the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment the position regarding changes with An Post retail and mail businesses in the context of the retention of the universal social obligation. [30081/17]

Thomas P. Broughan

Question:

57. Deputy Thomas P. Broughan asked the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment his plans for the post office network; if he has sought a report from the chief executive officer of An Post on the future of the post office network across the country; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29936/17]

My question relates to the uncertainty around the survival of our post office network and the mail distribution network, comprising four mail centres. What are the options for the survival of the post office network and the mail centres? We have had the Kerr and the McKinsey reports. What has happened to the former report? Two years or more were spent on that but we are in the dark in terms of what is happening with it. Those who work in the industry and the public are very concerned.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 54 and 57 together.

Will I briefly introduce my question?

When questions are grouped only the Deputy who tables the first question in the group makes some introductory remarks.

As Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment, I have responsibility for the postal sector, including the governance of An Post, to ensure that the company is fully compliant with the code of practice for the governance of State bodies and the governance functions included in the statutory framework underpinning An Post. Operational matters and the role of developing commercial strategies for An Post mails and retail businesses, including the post office network, are a matter for the board and management of An Post and are not matters in respect of which I, as Minister, have a statutory function. Consequently, measures to maintain, enhance and diversify the post office network are fundamentally a matter for An Post.

The Post Office Network Business Development Group was established at the end of 2014 by the then Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources to explore the potential for commercial and additional Government services which could be transacted through the post office network. I was one of those who made a submission to the group. Following publication of the final report of the group in January 2016, two working groups were established to progress the recommendations of the report, namely, the network renewal implementation group, chaired by Mr. Bobby Kerr, and the post office hub working group, chaired by the then Minister of State, Deputy Michael Ring.

On foot of a reconfiguration of Departments in July last year, responsibility for the post office network transferred to the Minister for Arts, Heritage, Regional, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs.  In March 2017, that Department published the final report of the post office hub working group, in which it was outlined that the Department intended pursuing the possible opportunities for services such as community banking and motor tax renewal for the network. Arrangements are in hand to reassign responsibility for the post office network to my Department in light of my overall responsibility for An Post.

The network renewal implementation group report was undertaken by Mr. Bobby Kerr for An Post and I understand the report is under consideration by the company.

It is Government policy that An Post remains a strong, viable company that is in a position to provide a high-quality, nationwide postal service and that it maintains a nationwide, customer-focused network of post offices in the community. However, the environment in which the post office operates is changing and the network needs to change to thrive, particularly with the move to digital transactions. This involves harnessing existing strengths, such as its trusted brand and the relationship of postmasters with individual communities, in order to build the network of the future.  The post office plays an important role in serving the needs of business and domestic customers alike and this is at the forefront of An Post's mandate.

Deputies will be aware that a fundamental review of An Post, including the post office network, which will identify the strategic changes and restructuring necessary to maintain the company on a sound financial footing, is ongoing. Naturally, the outcome of the review will impact on the extent to which the recommendations contained in the network renewal and post office hub reports can be implemented.

While decisions on restructuring An Post and the operation of the post office network are operational matters for the board and management of An Post, I am monitoring the position closely and hope that a pragmatic approach that will ensure the long-term sustainability of An Post and the post office network can be agreed. I had a number of meetings with the chief executive officer and chairman of the company and my officials also meet An Post management on a regular basis.  I have encouraged An Post to continue to work closely with all parties to find an agreed solution to the renewal of the network. The Government will be briefed once a definitive strategy has been agreed but until such time, it would not be appropriate for me to comment further on this process.

The post office network has evolved a social role in the widest meaning of the term, one which is highly valued by local communities. I envisage a strong future for the post office network by using its existing strengths to remain a significant player in the provision of Government, financial and other services. It has been long-standing policy that An Post remains in a position to compete in a liberalised market and continue to provide wide-ranging services to urban and rural communities.

I also want to be clear that there is no threat to the mails delivery or universal service obligation. An Post will continue to deliver post to every address every working day, which is a European Union requirement. The recent amended approach to pricing aims to ensure An Post can fulfil its obligation in this area.

While I thank the Minister for his reply, it did not provide much enlightenment. We now know that responsibility for An Post has reverted to the Minister, which is welcome because it caused problems for all of us when three Ministers had responsibility for the company. While, strictly speaking, the Minister is correct that operational issues are a matter for An Post, he is a shareholder on behalf of Joe and Mary Soap and the general public. He has a responsibility and cannot, therefore, act as a spectator. The reviews of An Post have been ongoing since 2014. The Kerr report appears to have been buried, while the McKinsey report has not yet been completed.

What is the future of the four mail centres, including the centres in Portlaoise and Athlone? Some 200 people work in the former, which takes on an additional 150 staff every Christmas. Every night, 450 mail deliveries enter and leave the Portlaoise centre, which deals with 28,000 parcels per day. It is a very busy facility that operates at far in excess of the capacity it was built to handle. A separate facility built recently to handle distribution at the centre, including leaflets, has been a great success.

The public owns the post office network and An Post is a semi-State company. I am fed up with Ministers telling us the company operates at one remove from the Oireachtas and Ministers cannot act on operational matters. They take the information provided to them by chief executives of semi-State companies at face value. Deputies take an interest in An Post on behalf of the public and the Minister is our representative. I also met the chief executive of An Post to discuss the issues that concern all of us.

I too am concerned about An Post. I visited the mail centre in Athlone where I spoke to staff.

Did the Minister visit the centre in Portlaoise?

Like Deputy Stanley, I am a local Deputy. Given that the Athlone centre was the only facility McKinsey did not visit, it was appropriate that I visit. The facility has a spare building which could easily cater for additional volume.

Unlike some people, I take the view that the universal service obligation is critical infrastructure. In November and December 2016, when the House discussed the serious difficulty in which An Post finds itself, we debated whether to alter the universal service obligation or seek the approval of the European Commission to alter it. I was not prepared to entertain either course of action.

One of An Post's strong advantages is that it has a van passing every door five days per week, every week of the year. The company is also trusted by the public, enjoys brand recognition and has a nationwide network. We need to put in place a plan that builds on these four key strengths. I am of the view that a plan which sustains not only the post office network long into the future but also the mails business, which has the potential to grow, especially in parcel deliveries, can be put in place.

What is the Minister waiting for?

I welcome that the Minister referred to the Portlaoise mail centre. The Athlone centre is critical for the west and north east and the Minister's visit to the facility was welcome. My concern is that we have only four major mail centres whose future is critical in terms of distribution. As An Post has emphasised, the company is now moving into the personal network, which is a very good development.

I welcome the Minister's restatement of his commitment to the universal service obligation. We are all on the same page on that issue. Sinn Féin, in its discussions with An Post, made some suggestions on how the universal service obligation can be implemented more efficiently. It is essential that postal deliveries are maintained for five days each week.

The issue is that the post office network and the future of the mail centres are intertwined. For a long time, various Ministers dealt with different aspects of the postal service and there was a danger that it would move in different directions. The Minister is interested in the post office network, I will give him that. Now that responsibility for it has transferred to his Department, I ask him to take a direct interest in the issue, pull everything together, move the process forward and retain the mail centres in Athlone and Portlaoise. These facilities are now taking overflow business from Dublin that the capital cannot handle. We must also retain as many post offices as possible. The key point, however, is that this process is like watching paint dry in that we have been waiting for years for new services to be devolved to post offices. There is a broad consensus in the House and among communities on the need to implement the suggestions that have been made in this regard. We must move ahead and make the network viable.

I understand the Deputy's frustration.

Time is of the essence.

When I was an Opposition Deputy, I questioned the commitment of many previous Ministers to the post office network. 

However, that is neither here nor there. I was equally frustrated that there was no movement in this regard.

I see digital not as a threat to the post office network, but as an enabler with considerable potential. The difficulty to date has been that digital is seen as a threat. It is like trying to hold back the tide. We now have a chief executive in place in An Post who sees the significant potential and resource that it presents. An Post has been slow to get back into the parcels business after getting out when it was beginning to grow and its competitors have since got into the business. An Post's one strong element is the universal service obligation. It needs to exploit that asset as much as possible. In fairness, it is developing a pilot in four towns to determine how best to utilise the fact that it has vans that go from towns into rural areas on a five-day basis. This is a small step in the right direction.

The Minister stated that operational matters at An Post were for its board and management, but he has an overriding responsibility. This is not just a rural issue, but the oft-quoted threat to 256 post offices also makes it an urban one. Last December, the Minister told me that the strategic review would report in May, but we are now approaching the end of June. What is the timeframe for the review?

Regarding the Kerr report of the post office network business development group, has the Minister invigilated that each of the targets and new areas of development is being proceeded with and that additional funding is being provided? In recent weeks, there was a major threat to our post office in Howth. It was advertised on a number of occasions, but no business came forward to take it on. By the look of things, there has been a stay of execution for a year. There were previous threats to the post office in Sutton and there are no direct post office services in the north Coolock area, which has a large population.

The Minister is presiding over a massive national business with nearly 2 million customers and 9,500 employees. He needs to move on this matter in a strategic way. So far, though, his approach has been disappointing.

I thank Deputy Broughan for his question, although maybe not his comments. As he said, if no one is willing to come forward and take on the business in towns like Howth, a fundamental question needs to be asked: how do we modernise the offering so that people will want to take it on? What hope have we of keeping sub-post offices in rural Ireland open if people are not prepared to take on a post office in towns like Howth? Key to this is using digital as a driver. We all know of the post office's role in social welfare and how older people in particular use it. There is a significant opportunity for the postmaster to be used as the gateway to the digital world and for State and non-State services to be provided. Websites like Switcher.ie and bonkers.ie can offer people up to €300 in savings on their electricity and gas bills, yet many older people are not availing of them because they are not able or willing to go online to do so. This is an opportunity for providing a service through the local post office. Many other similar services could be provided in support of what the Government is doing.

On the other side, we also need to get young people to start going to their post offices. It is not good enough that the only time people go to a post office is at Christmas to buy a stamp or in the summer to get a passport.

The Minister needs to take the initiative. We have read about the new Smart current account, but we have been discussing current accounts and so on for some time. In New Zealand, for example, Kiwibank is run by the post office network. The report to which I referred proposed the idea of close liaisons with the credit union movement. In Germany, the Sparkasse bank is headquartered in Bonn. There is a range of measures, but the Minister needs to take the lead role.

The Minister mentioned towns like Howth. My constituents, particularly older ones, were deeply concerned at the time about the possible closure, but the chief executive of An Post, Mr. McRedmond, did not seem to make a dynamic approach to our local chamber of commerce or major businesses in the area to encourage them to ensure that this key aspect of the social community framework would remain on their peninsula.

The Minister needs to take a more dynamic approach. He must publish the strategic plan, get on with matters and try to centre our post offices. The post office's operations are vital in many areas, for example, the Beara Peninsula, where they are a focal point for towns, villages and communities. The Minister needs to set an example.

The Minister referred to IT. While there is scope for a return to the parcels business, there is also considerable scope for An Post to take a leading role in terms of IT, given the question marks that seem to he hanging over some email providers, for example, Google's security.

I will take up Deputy Broughan's final point. Deputy Dooley was critical of me earlier, but with the roll-out of fibre across rural Ireland, 97% of post offices will have access to high speed broadband within the next 77 weeks. That piece of infrastructure needs to be fully utilised for the benefit of communities, older people and people who do not have access to the Internet at the moment. One in seven people has never used the Internet. In this light, the post office can be used to provide such people in urban and rural Ireland with significant opportunities and we need to exploit those opportunities fully.

In fairness, the chief executive of An Post, Mr. David McRedmond, gets it. He sees the opportunity presented by the development of financial services, the parcel system and developments in the digital economy as an enabler to drive the business forward. Work is ongoing in terms of the Kerr report and the feedback from the McKinsey report and NewERA, but the board will have to make the ultimate decision. There is also ongoing and regular engagement with my Department. That will continue until we have a blueprint for the future.

Electric Vehicles

Timmy Dooley

Question:

55. Deputy Timmy Dooley asked the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment the number of electric and hybrid vehicles in the national fleet; the number of electric and hybrid vehicles that have been purchased since January 2017; his annual targets for electric and hybrid vehicle uptake; and his plans to incentivise the uptake of these vehicles. [30143/17]

I look forward to engaging with the Minister on that aspect at another time, but this question relates to the issue of electric vehicles, EVs.

The number of battery electric vehicles, BEVs, and plugin hybrid electric vehicles, PHEVs, in the national fleet is estimated to be 2,970, with 2,300 new EVs bought and registered in Ireland and 670 EVs imported into the State. Since 2015, there has been a steady growth in EVs, with 2017 to date seeing a 25% increase in EV registrations to 529. Of these, 151 are PHEVs while the remaining 378 are BEVs.

The EV grant scheme provides grant aid of up to €5,000 towards the purchase of a new BEV or PHEV and is administered by the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland, SEAI. The scheme is kept under review and will continue throughout 2017 with an allocation of €5 million. Additionally, vehicle registration tax reliefs of up to €5,000 apply to EVs.

Budget 2017 extended vehicle registration tax reliefs on PHEVs to the end of 2018 and on BEVs to 2021. To date SEAI has paid out 2,159 grants amounting to a total value of €10.2 million.

My Department and the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport are co-chairing a low-emission vehicles, LEV, taskforce involving relevant Government Departments and agencies. In respect of electric vehicles, the topics being examined include market growth potential and public leadership, and policy levers to stimulate this growth. A holistic Government approach is essential to establishing the right framework for the long-term development of the market. I also plan to introduce, in conjunction with the SEAI, an electric vehicle driver experience programme which will encompass a pilot electric vehicle car sharing scheme, an electric vehicle roadshow, and commercial fleet trials.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House

There is a range of factors that are accepted internationally as being barriers to the widespread early transition to EV technology including limited vehicle choice, range anxiety, low consumer acceptance and awareness. The transition being slower than anticipated is not specific to Ireland and does not reflect a national lack of ambition or policy support. Given that the Government supported EV grant scheme is demand-led, I do not believe that it is appropriate to set annual targets for EV uptake.

It is clear that a lot of change has occurred in this space. In 2011, when the EV grant programme began, only two types of vehicle were available in Ireland, while today there are 25 unique models for Irish consumers to choose from which are all available on the grant scheme. Technical issues such as range anxiety, which would have greatly dissuaded consumers a number of years ago, are being resolved through technology development in the area of batteries and fast chargers. It should also be noted that we have had considerable achievement in certain respects. For example, unlike other countries, such as the UK or France, we have a single entity operating the nationwide EV charging network which enables Irish consumers to access the EV charging infrastructure easily throughout the country. 

If it gets any worse, the remainder of the reply is not worth listening to. If the Minister was serious about addressing the crisis in the transport sector vis-à-vis emissions and getting electric vehicles on the road, he would be doing a lot more in terms of incentivising than running a road show around the country. People need serious incentives. There was an action plan in 2014 which talked about having 50,000 electric vehicles on the road by 2020. In 2015 there were 618 electric vehicles sold or imported into Ireland. That is pathetic. Less than 0.25% of cars sold or imported into Ireland in 2016 were electric vehicles.

The current programme for Government, to which the Minister is a signatory and in the putting together of which we are led to believe he had a very significant part, stated that Ireland wanted to be a global leader in the uptake of electric cars. That is an ambition similar to that of the Norwegian Government, which is all very well and good except that Norway has approximately 71 times more electric cars than Ireland had in 2016. The Minister has a bit of catching up to do. That road show he has in mind would need to get an electric shock pretty fast.

I thank Deputy Dooley. He is great for the one-liners. The reality is that, to date, 40% of the total number of electric vehicles purchased in Ireland have been purchased in 2017. We will hit our target by the end of the year if progress continues along the lines that we have seen to date.

The target is 50,000 electric vehicles by 2020.

I did not interrupt Deputy Dooley. He mentioned the issue of Norway. He forgot to mention that Norway is reviewing the incentives because of the costs involved. Yes, significant incentives were put-----

That is because they have so many EVs.

-----in place in Norway. If we had the resources and oil reserves that Norway has we could put those types of resources in place. There was an interesting report in our national newspapers recently which said that by 2022 it will make financial sense for most drivers to drive an electric vehicle. We need to encourage people to move away from conventional vehicles. I myself drive a hybrid and I am sure Deputy Dooley does the same. We need to lead by example. The AA recently carried out a survey which showed that 10% of people are likely to buy either a hybrid or an electric vehicle the next time out. We want to encourage people to move to electric vehicles. That is why we are rolling out this demonstrator project, which will involve car sharing, which is a bit like the dublinbikes scheme, which has been a huge success. We will be doing it in Dublin and Cork to encourage people to try out these vehicles. We will run this road show right across the country so that people can try them out and we will engage with the commercial companies in respect of commercial fleets.

It all sounds great but the simple question is what target the Minister will hit by the end of the year. The target set back in 2014 was for 50,000 vehicles to be on the road by 2020. At best, there will be 6,000 or 7,000 electric vehicles on the road by 2020. If the Minister thinks it is worthwhile mentioning that he will hit some notional target for electric vehicles by the end of this year then I really do not think he has any concept of where we need to be at. What is needed is a very significant incentive - a plan and a programme that will grab the attention of the hard-pressed motorist who has been hit with a significant increase in car insurance, who has seen hikes in the price of fuel in recent years and who pays huge amounts of tax to the State. The Minister knows what is required to shift the dial on this matter. I understand that Norway had more money to put behind it and I know why Norway is now limiting the incentives. It is because they have reached critical mass. People have gotten over the range anxiety and are no longer concerned about the durability of the cars. The Minister needs to take a big bang approach to get those 40,000 to 50,000 electric vehicles on our roads. Then, and only then, in my humble opinion, will the sector start to mushroom and grow along conventional lines of activity. Trying to get incremental growth from 0.1% of the marker is a long way off.

As Deputy Dooley knows, it was his own Government that set notional targets in the first place-----

The target was set in 2014.

-----and then did not put the infrastructure in place to follow through on them.

We were not in Government in 2014.

That is why these targets have been revised downwards. I am dealing with the situation that is in front of me currently. The advice that is available to myself and the public is that electric vehicles will make financial sense for the vast majority of drivers in this country within the next four years. The reality is that diesel vehicles have very little value at trade-in now because dealerships know that the long-term prognosis for diesel is that it will be gone. Drivers are already shifting from diesel to hybrids. We need to drive the incentive further towards electric vehicles. If I were to ramp up the financial supports available for electric vehicles today, I could guarantee that some other colleagues in the House in the not too distant future would be talking about a debacle of the type seen in Northern Ireland with the renewable heating incentive scheme here in the Republic in respect of electric vehicles.

That is what leadership is about. The Minister cannot be scared.

Yes, we need to provide leadership. That is what we need to do and the best way to do that is to make these vehicles available to people, to allow people to test drive them and see how easy it is to drive them, and to lead by example.

I call on Deputy Mick Barry. I know he will lead by example and observe the time limits. I make that remark to all sides of the House.

Greenhouse Gas Emissions

Mick Barry

Question:

56. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment the measures taken to avert the possibility of heavy fines being imposed on Ireland for exceeding CO2 emission targets; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29934/17]

I ask the Minister what measures are being taken to avert the possibility of heavy fines being imposed on this State for exceeding CO2 emission targets.

I thank Deputy Barry. As I have indicated in my previous response to these questions, the release of the latest projections of greenhouse gas emissions by the Environmental Protection Agency on 13 April 2017 clearly indicated the enormous challenge facing Ireland to reduce its emissions. The projections indicate that emissions from those sectors of the economy not covered by the EU emissions trading system, ETS, could be between 4% and 6% below 2005 levels by 2020 - a deteriorating position in respect of the achievement of Ireland’s targets for 2020 when compared with previous projections. Though not unexpected, given the welcome return to economic growth in Ireland, it nevertheless confirms that Ireland’s greenhouse emissions continue to track broader trends in the economy and serves to underline the difficult decisions ahead of us as we try to reduce emissions in line with our international commitments.

In relation to the targets for 2020, Ireland has an emissions reduction target for each year between 2013 and 2020 under the 2009 EU effort sharing decision. For 2020 itself, the target set for Ireland is that emissions should be 20% below their level in 2005. This will be Ireland’s contribution to the overall EU objective to reduce its emissions by the order of 20% by 2020 compared to 1990 levels. Ireland’s target is jointly the most demanding 2020 reduction target allocated to EU member states under this decision, which is shared only with Denmark and Luxembourg.

The projected shortfall to our targets in 2020 reflects both the constrained investment capacity over the past decade due to the economic crisis and the extremely challenging nature of the target itself. In fact, it is now accepted that Ireland’s 2020 target was not consistent with what would be achievable on an EU-wide cost-effective basis.

In order to maximise Ireland's emissions reductions and address the gap to the 2020 target, it will also be necessary to pursue other available options, in addition to the introduction of further policies and measures planned through the national mitigation plan.

The legislative framework governing the EU's 2020 emissions reduction targets includes a number of flexibility mechanisms to enable member states to meet their annual emissions targets, including provisions to bank any excess allowances to future years and to trade allowances between member states. Using our banked emissions from the period to 2015, Ireland is projected to comply with its emission reduction targets in each of the years 2013 to 2018. However, our cumulative emissions are expected to exceed targets for 2019 and 2020, which will result in a requirement to purchase additional allowances. While this purchasing requirement is not, at this stage, expected to be significant, further analysis will be required to quantify the likely costs involved in light of the final amount and the price of allowances required.

I did not hear many solutions there. I did hear many excuses. Are the Minister and the Government au fait with the seriousness of the potential fines they could be bringing down on the country? Joseph Curtin from the Institute of International and European Affairs says the country could face fines of €610 million by 2020. That is money that could otherwise be invested in health, education and a better life for our people. He has not ruled out that by 2030 fines of €5.5 billion could be levied on this country.

The Minister has produced an outline national mitigation plan that has been described by An Taisce as too little, too late and an unmitigated failure. It has been described by Friends of the Earth as having complete inadequacy. Will the Minister outline some concrete proposals and not a litany of excuses?

The big issue with potential penalties is not on our emissions target. Nothing has been set in stone yet, but it relates to not meeting our renewable energy targets. That is naturally enough a further concern for us. Based on the evidence available to me at the moment, I believe we will reach our renewable electricity target, but heat and transport are two challenging areas. Within the next few weeks I intend to bring proposals to Government on a renewable heat incentive scheme, which is very different from the one proposed in Northern Ireland, in order that we can get as close as possible to our 12% target for renewable heat.

On transport, we have increased the biofuel blend in our transport fuels, which will get us quite close to our transport target as well. However, we need to make further efforts on our emissions targets and our renewable energy targets. Every effort needs to be made, not just on our 2020 targets but our 2030 targets which will be far more challenging.

The Minister must respect the time. Deputy Barry has one minute.

As the Minister mentioned transport targets, let us talk about transport. Transport emissions increased by 4% in 2015. It is estimated that they may increase by as much as 10% by 2020. That is not surprising when the Government spends twice as much on roads as it does on public transport. That is the plan. Public transport should get a major boost if we are serious about reaching the climate targets. Despite this, we are told that Iarnród Éireann is on the verge of bankruptcy, and both Bus Éireann and Dublin Bus receive just a fraction of the subsidy similar companies in other European countries receive. All three of the major public transport companies receive State subsidies that are significantly less than in 2008. There is something that could be done straight away - a major increase in spending on public transport. Will the Minister comment on that?

I thank the Deputy.

Will he also comment on the fact Ireland is one of two European Union countries that are least likely to meet their targets?

We clearly have challenges in meeting our transport targets, partly because we have a very large rural population. That is why the roll-out of the national broadband plan is so critical in this. It will reduce the need for people to travel to work. They can work from home or work closer to their own home. It is one innovative step we can take to reduce our overall emissions. Biofuels represent the main plank in this regard. As of 1 January, we have increased the blend of biofuels in our transport fuels to 8%. We will increase that again to 9%. We are exploring going beyond that again.

Public transport plays a role in that, as do the greenways. It is about having a unique set of measures to deal with the specific challenges Ireland has and about all of us working together in this regard. That is why the national dialogue is so important to have real engagement with all the players from every community in the country to come up with practical solutions that will feed into the mitigation plan.

Question No. 57 answered with Question No. 54.
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