The Minister of State is very welcome, as ever.
Commencement Matters
Health Services Staff Training
I also welcome the Minister of State, particularly on a day when his attention is, presumably, directed elsewhere, as is the case for many others. I am grateful to him for coming to take this urgent Commencement matter, one that has been raised quite a number of times for the attention of successive Ministers for Health. I raise it again in order to keep the pressure on as it is hugely urgent and impacts severely on the experience of patients within the health care system.
To put it briefly, I ask the Minister for Health to inform the House when he intends to bring forward the legislation promised to change the criteria for medical training to alter the eligibility requirements for doctors in Ireland from non-EU countries to enter specialist training programmes here. There are doctors working here in psychiatry and a number of other specialist divisions who were trained in other countries. They are permitted to work here as non-trainee doctors, but they are not allowed to enter the trainee specialist divisions because they have not completed a recognised internship. I am told that there some doctors from non-EU countries such as Australia, New Zealand and South Africa who have been recognised from 2006 onwards. There is, however, a significant number of doctors from other countries working who should be on specialist registers but are unable be included because the necessary legislation has not been brought forward. Certainly in the field of psychiatry there are doctors from India, the Philippines and Nigeria who should be allowed onto the trainee register but are not. This means that they do not receive the supervision they should if still in training. It also means that it is very hard to recruit or retain doctors where we need them because they do not receive the training opportunities and recognition they would receive if the legislation was to be brought foward.
There is a bizarre anomaly in the health system. I have spoken to colleagues who work in the sphere of psychiatry and elsewhere who have told me that it is bizarre and recognised as such. It has an impact on patient safety because there is no supervision to the required level. It also has an impact on waiting lists because the necessary specialist doctors cannot be recruited or retained. The effect on patients is very clear and has been recognised by successive Ministers for Health. I know because I spoke to our colleague, Senator James Reilly, when he was Minister for Health. At the time he promised to bring forward the necessary legislative change. A simple amendment is required and would be supported by the Medical Council and every other stakeholder. There is no political disagreement on the issue. It seems to be due to a bureaucratic delay. In late 2016 the Minister for Health, Deputy Simon Harris, promised that the necessary legislation would be brought forward in the first quarter of this year. Previously, the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Leo Varadkar, when Minister for Health, said he would bring forward the legislation. I am told that the most recent ministerial comment is that it will be brought forward in the final quarter of this year, but that is simply not good enough. The deadline for doctors in training is July 2018. Therefore, the legislation must be concluded by the start of January 2018. Bringing it forward in November or December will be too late to enable us to see the benefit in having a sufficient number of doctors on the specialist register next year. The matter is urgent and the legislation must be brought forward.
There is a political commitment to doing it and I am simply seeking to apply pressure in that regard. My colleague in the Dáil, Deputy Alan Kelly, our spokesperson on health, will also apply pressure about this. I am anxious to hear from the Minister why the legislation has not been forthcoming.
I thank Senator Bacik for raising this important issue. I also take this opportunity to wish the Taoiseach, Deputy Enda Kenny, well. As I speak, tributes are being paid to him in the Dáil. From my perspective, having worked with him as a Minister of State over the past 12 months, he has always been very positive and inclusive. He did not have issues with people having different views. He was very supportive of me and my portfolio as Minister of State with responsibility for disability issues. I wish him, his wife, Fionnuala, and all his family well for the future.
This is an opportunity to update the House on the position relating to amendments to the Medical Practitioners Act 2007 regarding specialist medical training in Ireland and entry to the trainee specialist division of the Medical Council register by doctors from non-European Economic Area, EEA, countries. The Medical Practitioners Act 2007 provides that nationals of non-EEA countries are registered in the trainee specialist division of the Medical Council’s register if they have passed the council’s pre-registration examination system, PRES, or are exempt from the PRES in line with legislation, have an approved training post and have been granted in a third country a document which, in the opinion of the council, is at least the equivalent of a certificate of experience.
The certificate of experience is the certificate received on completion of an Irish internship. The Medical Council recognises internships in a number of countries as equivalent to Irish internships. These include Australia, New Zealand, Pakistan, South Africa, Sudan and Malaysia. However, internships from non-EEA countries outside of those countries are not currently recognised by the council, and I am aware that this creates difficulties for doctors from those countries who wish to access specialist training programmes in Ireland. Given these difficulties, the Minister for Health, Deputy Simon Harris, has decided to remove the certificate of experience as a requirement for registration in the trainee specialist division. This will mean, in effect, that entry to the trainee specialist division for doctors who obtained their qualification in a non-EEA country will be by way of the pre-registration examination system - unless, as previously mentioned, the applicant is exempted from sitting the PRES in line with legislation - and the offer of a specialist training post by the HSE in a recognised training programme. The requirement to hold a document considered by the Medical Council to be at least the equivalent of a certificate of experience will no longer be a prerequisite.
The amendment will be introduced by a Health (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, a complex legislative measure which is currently being drafted by the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel in liaison with my officials. The drafting of the Bill was delayed due to the transposition of the modernised professional qualifications directive, which was transposed on 17 January 2017. The current timeframe is to publish the Bill by the end of 2017, but this is subject to no major issues arising. It is important to mention, however, that Ireland is committed to a national policy of health worker self-sufficiency and has signed up to implementing the World Health Organization, WHO, global code of practice on international recruitment of health personnel. The code establishes and promotes voluntary practices for the ethical international recruitment of health personnel and the strengthening of health systems. Article 3.6 of the code recommends that member states "strive to create a sustainable health workforce and work towards establishing effective planning, education and training, and retention strategies that will reduce their need to recruit migrant health personnel".
I thank the Minister of State for his response. I join him in wishing the Taoiseach well on his retirement. I offer best wishes to him, his wife, Fionnuala, and his family. However, I am disappointed with the substance of the Minister's reply, which does not bring matters forward in any way. Indeed, it simply re-states a decision that had previously been made by the former Minister, Senator James Reilly, some years ago and which was re-stated in August 2015 by the then Minister for Health, Deputy Varadkar. It appears that nothing has changed. In 2015, the then Minister, Deputy Varadkar, told The Medical Independent that legislation was being drafted at that time. It is a simple amendment to the 2007 Act.
It is not a huge Bill, as I understand it.
The Minister of State also raised an important ethical issue, which is that currently we are poaching doctors from developing countries without offering them any opportunity to increase their specialisation or to train in a recognised training structure here. That is why we are losing people and that is why we cannot retain or recruit sufficient numbers of qualified doctors to bring down our horrendous waiting lists in the health system. I know that the Minister of State is a passionate advocate for reform in the health system. This is a very simple reform and I do not see how the Minister for Health can say that the timeframe is to publish the Bill by the end of 2017, subject to no major issues arising. This is an urgent matter. One of the organisations that has consistently highlighted this is Overseas Medics of Ireland. Its former general secretary, Dr. Shakya Bhattacharjee, emigrated to the UK from Ireland out of frustration and to access a training post in neurology there. We cannot keep the doctors that we need here and that has a knock-on effect on our own people, as well as on the developing countries from where we are poaching doctors. I will continue to raise this and I will also rely on Deputy Alan Kelly to raise it in the Dáil. I ask the Minister of State to bring the message back to the Minister for Health that this must be dealt with more urgently than is currently the case.
I take the Senator's point that she has raised this matter with successive Ministers for Health in recent years. I also take her point about the deadlines being too late and I will bring that back to the Minister for Health. I acknowledge the Senator's disappointment and accept that if it is a question of drafting a relatively simple amendment, we should go ahead and do that. I will give Senator Bacik a commitment that I will highlight this particular issue with the Minister and my Government colleagues. I agree with the Senator that the question of poaching doctors is an ethical one that must be resolved but at the same time we need people to work in our health services who are well trained and qualified. I will bring all of the Senator's concerns to the attention of the Minister for Health.
Childcare Services
I now welcome the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Katherine Zappone, to the House. The next Commencement matter is from Senator Michelle Mulherin, who has four minutes.
I welcome the Minister to the Chamber and thank her for being here today to address this issue. First, I commend her for the passion and commitment that she has demonstrated for early years education and child care in this country, which has been on the back foot for many years. The Minister secured a 35% increase in this year's budget, on the back of a 35% increase in 2016. I welcome the extension of the free pre-school programme from one to two years and the commencement of the affordable child care scheme which will kick in this September. The Government is urging parents who were pushed out of the labour market because they could not afford child care to revisit their decision to stay at home to mind their children and to see if they can now re-enter the workforce. There is a whole suite of measures to which the Minister will refer, I am sure, including additional funding for the child care subvention scheme. The Minister also provided funding to address short-term issues that arose such as the removal of unqualified CE scheme workers from the child care provider ratios and for non-contact hours. I highlight all of these measures because I recognise the serious inroads that the Minister is making. However, issues remain to be addressed, as I am sure the Minister is very aware.
The fact that the early years education and child care sector is undervalued is not new. This has been the case for many years and Ireland is really trailing behind. It is fair to say that it is no coincidence that this is an area that has been and continues to be dominated by women. There is a direct correlation between that and the fact that the work is undervalued. Notwithstanding the fact that most of those working in the sector have been undervalued for many years, it is the case that the sector has become increasingly regulated in terms of buildings and physical infrastructure and the requirements placed on service providers by the State, particularly with regard to education.
When children go to child care, it should not just be about childminding - they should also be stimulated and educated. We all recognise that if children can get a good start at a formative stage, it can set them up very well for the future.
As the Minister will be aware, there is a crisis in this area. Regulatory and educational requirements have increased. The service providers and professionals working in this sector are at their wits' end because of pay issues. The highly qualified people who deliver these services want to be able to stay in this sector. We know their hourly rate of pay, based on the average for the entire year, is approximately €10.
SIPTU is running a campaign on this issue. I attended a meeting it organised in Castlebar, County Mayo, last Thursday night. There was palpable frustration among the many workers in attendance about their terms and conditions. I will mention two particular issues they raised. They are paid for just 38 weeks of the year. This means professionals have to sign on or find other work for the summer. That is the position in respect of employees. Service providers do not get paid at all during this period.
I know the Minister has secured some funding to recognise the administrative preparation that is required to deliver child care services. Frustration has been expressed by those who believe this is way too little and argue that they need much more. The suggestion is that all of this leads to unsustainability.
There is a disparity between community service providers and private service providers. Many private service providers are frustrated because when problems are noticed by the State in the community sector, providers in that sector are immediately supported and financed so that those problems can be fixed, but the contrary is the case in the private sector. In my experience over the years, the private service providers are doing their best.
A great deal of frustration was expressed at the meeting in Castlebar about poor communication. I pointed out that there is an early years forum, but people generally-----
The Senator is over time.
The additional time can be taken near the end. I just wanted to put it all together for the Minister.
There are other Members waiting.
I appreciate that. I would be happy for the time to be deducted from my response, with the consent of the Chair. I think the Minister knows the landscape. I hope we can give some hope. I support the Minister in her efforts to try to get more funding for child care so we can show people we are serious about providing early years education in this country.
I thank Senator Mulherin for raising this important issue and giving the House a valuable opportunity to reflect on this matter, which is the subject of debate in the early years sector and touches on some of the key policy considerations that are driving the reforms being progressed by the Department of Children and Youth Affairs. The Senator has already mentioned some of the ways in which the Government is investing in the early years sector. As she indicated, the 35% increase I achieved in budget 2017 was on top of a similar increase in 2016. Such increases reflect the emphasis being placed on developing a quality service with appropriately supported staff. As a means of addressing the cost pressures being faced by providers in the sector, I secured €14.5 million for 2017 to enable providers to be paid for non-contact time. For an average early childhood care and education service with 25 children, this will mean an additional payment of approximately €2,400 per annum. I announced yesterday that an extra €3.5 million will be made available to child care providers in the form of a non-contact time payment. This will benefit child care providers who participate in the community child care subvention and training and employment child care programmes. All services that sign up to deliver these schemes from September will be invited to apply.
In the slightly longer term, the programme for Government commits to an independent review of the cost of providing quality child care services. When this review has been completed, it will feed into future policy development and into the design of the new affordable child care scheme, including payment levels to services. A new national scheme of financial support for parents towards the cost of their child care, to be known as the affordable child care scheme, will eventually replace the existing targeted child care subsidisation schemes with a single, streamlined and more user-friendly scheme. The affordable child care scheme will encompass universal and targeted elements which can be incrementally expanded over time. It is designed to be flexible, with the ability to adjust income thresholds, subsidy rates and income taper rates over time as further Government investment becomes available.
In advance of the introduction of the new affordable child care scheme, changes are being made to the existing schemes to improve subsidy rates. From September 2017, up to 33,000 children aged between six months and 36 months who are availing of registered child care will benefit from a new universal child care subsidy. The maximum weekly subsidy payable will be €20 for children attending full-time care. Moreover, from September up to 23,000 children and their families who currently avail of child care support under the community childcare subvention, CCS, programme will benefit from significant increases of up to 50% in the subvention rates provided under the programme. Up to 7,000 children and their families currently availing of the training and education child care support programmes will also see increases in subsidy rates. Up to an additional 7,000 children are expected to benefit from the CCS scheme for the first time from September 2017 due to improved access to the scheme.
Capital funding is in place to support the sector. Funding of €4 million was made available under the early years capital programme for 2017, with a separate €3 million allocated for services providing school age child care. Applications for these schemes are being assessed currently.
Notwithstanding these improvements in the area of affordability and the significant additional resources that have been secured for early years, it is recognised that the sustainability of services remains an issue. A fund of €1 million has been made available to child care services to help replace unqualified community employment scheme workers. Further, officials from my Department have met several providers to understand better the sustainability challenges they face. The learning from these interactions is informing policy in this area, especially as it relates to the annual Estimates process and the decisions around resource allocation.
Staff in the child care sector play a critical role in delivering high-quality child care services, and they deserve to be recognised, valued and respected for this. It is acknowledged, however, that pay and conditions are major issues facing the sector and can lead to difficulties in recruiting and retaining staff. My Department is engaging with colleagues in relevant Departments and with the early years sector to explore how this might be addressed in the short, medium and long term. While my Department is somewhat constrained in what it can do in this regard as it is not an employer of child care workers, it accepts that it is a major funder of the child care sector and, as such, has a role to play.
I wish to acknowledge the good work going on in partnership throughout the early years sector to bring about improvements in all the areas we are discussing today. While much has been achieved to date, much work remains to be done to ensure Ireland achieves its aim of being a model of early years delivery.
The Minister has given us a comprehensive answer and I have given the Senator plenty of time.
Just briefly-----
No, you do not have time. I am sorry. I have to call the next speaker.
School Accommodation
I thank the Cathaoirleach for allowing this important Commencement matter before the Seanad. I am raising an issue relating to a school in Innishannon, a small village between Bandon and Cork city that has seen significant growth in recent years. This village has seen significant numbers come into the area. We are trying to ensure this school can develop and that the entire campus or site can develop in an appropriate way.
In the past six months the school has received planning permission from Cork County Council for two classrooms on the site, both of which would be 80 sq. m. First, the Department of Education and Skills granted approval for the building of one of these classrooms. Then, last week, the Department granted another approval for the school to build a special education teaching unit as well. This would be a 15 sq. m room.
To me it does not make logical sense to provide for a situation whereby we will spend money on building this new unit. We have no planning permission for it. We have planning permission for two classrooms. We were allowed to build one and now we have been given approval to build a smaller one.
The school is looking for a logical solution that would allow it to build the two rooms for which it received planning permission. The money involved is small. The school has been granted €34,000 for the small 15 sq. m room. A further €100,000 would ensure the two classrooms would be built appropriately. This is basic common sense in many ways and it suits the practical dynamics of the site. This school will develop further because it has developed over the years.
Another classroom will be needed in time. It does not make sense that the Department of Education and Skills should provide €35,000 for a 15 sq. m classroom when planning is in place for an 80 sq. m classroom. We need to have a vision for the school in terms of where it is going to go.
The Department should examine the landscape of the school's location and consider the logical suggestion that it should build both classrooms. If the Department builds both classrooms, it will mean that the school has a long-term focus. It does not make sense to build one and then the other, and then build an add-on in between. That does not make sense for the State. The school has been granted €34,000 for a 15 sq. m classroom. An extra €100,000 would mean the school would have an 80 sq. m classroom. That is the appropriate size.
I realise this is not the domain of the Minister, Deputy Zappone. However, it is an issue the Minister for Education and Skills may have to consider in the next number of weeks in order that we have a logical solution to a very practical issue. The classrooms need to be built. There is approval for one. Let us build two and plan for the future.
I thank Senator Lombard. I offer him this response on behalf of the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Richard Bruton. It provides me with an opportunity to clarify the position of the Department of Education and Skills in regard to the accommodation needs of Scoil Eoin in Innishannon, County Cork.
The Senator is aware of the demographic challenge facing the education system in the coming years, including in the Cork area. In that regard, the six-year construction programme aims to prioritise new building projects and major extensions, including special schools in areas where demographic need has been established. In addition, the capital programme provides for devolved funding for additional classrooms in schools, including special schools, where an immediate accommodation requirement has been identified or an additional teacher has been appointed. It is open to schools to apply for funding for additional classroom accommodation where required.
The Senator will be aware that Scoil Eoin is a co-educational Catholic ethos primary school catering for boys and girls from junior infants to sixth class. The staffing at the school for 2017 will be one principal, 11 mainstream class teachers and four special education posts. The enrolment in Scoil Eoin is 295 pupils, reflecting a 6% increase in enrolment over the past five years.
Scoil Eoin submitted an application to the Department of Education and Skills in December 2015, seeking two additional mainstream classes, as the Senator has pointed out. Approval was granted for the provision of one mainstream classroom. This approval was to address the mainstream classroom accommodation deficit that would prevail with the appointment of an additional mainstream teacher from September 2016.
The school subsequently submitted a further application to the Department in March 2017 for the provision of an additional mainstream classroom. The application was assessed by the Department of Education and Skills and it was determined there was no deficit of mainstream classroom accommodation at the school. The Department determined, however, that in light of the special education teaching hours at the school there was a deficit of special education teaching accommodation.
It is in that context that the Department of Education and Skills approved an additional special education teaching room for the school in addition to the mainstream classroom previously approved. The decision was recently conveyed to the school. I thank the Senator for raising the matter. I can confirm the Department's commitment to progressing the devolved building project in the case of Scoil Eoin.
I do not think there is a need for a supplementary question. The Minister has-----
I will be very brief. The last page of the statement says it all. There is planning permission for two classrooms, but planning permission must now be sought for a small classroom. It does not make practical or logical sense. That is the argument I am trying to get across. I ask the Minister to relay that comment to the Minister for Education and Skills. It is an issue which can be sorted out quite simply because it is a very practical issue. There is planning permission for an 80 sq. m classroom. We need to build it as otherwise the process will be delayed.
Refugee Resettlement Programme
I welcome the Minister. I will get straight to the point. The Government made a commitment in respect of the matter I am raising. Commitments are about honour and delivering something. The commitment to which I refer has been restated by the Minister and her colleagues in government. I attended a conference last week at which I heard the stories of many people who have experienced issues in terms of direct provision. I also heard about families that need to be reconnected and other matters. We need to challenge the myth that Ireland is the country of a thousand welcomes. That notion needs to be re-evaluated.
It is important that we stand in solidarity with people in need and that we honour our commitment to take 4,000 individuals into our country. While we face other issues and challenges, this matter is about our tradition as a country which, historically, has known emigration and our people's need to flee and find refuge in other places. This issue resonates in the hearts and the minds of Irish people generally. There is a good spirit about that and an openness, acceptance and firm belief that diversity, difference, culture and background enliven and enrich our society. There is general acceptance of that and it is a great thing to be able to say that in a true republic and to mean it.
What is the Government's plan to fulfil the commitment made in this regard, which was agreed with our European counterparts? I acknowledge that there are difficulties involved but perhaps the Minister might, with the aid of her script, outline that plan. I appreciate that she has a job to do. I want to keep this matter on the agenda, maintain the focus on it and see how we can get back on track and deliver on our commitment to those 4,000 people.
I thank the Senator for raising this matter. I shall respond to it on behalf of the Minister for Justice and Equality, although, obviously, this is a matter with which I am engaged in my Ministry.
To reflect the will of the people of Ireland to assist those most vulnerable who are fleeing conflict and persecution, the Government established the Irish refugee protection programme in September 2015. Under that programme, the Government pledged to accept up to 4,000 persons overall into the State by the end of 2017 under the EU relocation and resettlement programme. Under the programme, people have been arriving in Ireland since January 2016.
Ireland has an established national resettlement programme under the UNHCR-led scheme and our past successes in implementing this programme have greatly assisted in a successful delivery of our commitments under the EU programme. We were one of the first EU member states to fulfil our pledge under the July 2015 agreement, a full year ahead of schedule. As a result, we doubled our quota in terms of resettling people from Lebanon, from 520 to 1,040. A total of 779 people have been resettled thus far and the remainder have been selected and will be brought to Ireland by the end of the year. It is likely that further resettlement missions will be undertaken to Lebanon to bring more people to Ireland under the resettlement programme post-2017.
The relocation programme has been more challenging. An EU-wide solidarity mechanism on this scale is unprecedented. Our voluntary opt-in to the programme was warmly appreciated by our EU partners. Naturally, there have been some difficulties in establishing the necessary infrastructure and standard operating procedures at Union level, particularly given the very challenging environment of the island hot spots. In total, just over 20,000 people have been relocated across the EU member states to date. We have relocated 459 asylum seekers from Greece and a further 320 people in Greece have been assessed and cleared for travel. By September, we will have relocated just under 1,100 asylum seekers from Greece.
Relocation from Italy has not yet been possible because the authorities there have not allowed the law enforcement authorities of other member states to conduct security assessments of candidates on Italian soil. We have made repeated efforts at all levels, including at senior ministerial level, to resolve this issue and the European Commission has called on Italy to show greater flexibility in this regard. If an acceptable solution is found, we can commence relocating eligible candidates from Italy.
The Deputy should also be aware that the number of asylum seekers who have been registered in Italy and Greece and who are eligible for the relocation programme falls well short, at present, of the 160,000 originally envisaged in the context of the two EU Council decisions. A concerted effort by all member states between now and the end of September could ensure that all those eligible are relocated.
Ireland is doing everything it can to give effect to its commitments. The intensive efforts and resources that the Department has invested in the relocation programme should not be underestimated. In a further gesture of humanitarian assistance towards the most vulnerable people caught up in the migration crisis and following a debate in the Dáil, the Government also committed to taking up to 200 unaccompanied minors from France who were previously resident in the migrant camp at Calais.
All unaccompanied minors who have been referred to us by the French authorities have been admitted to Ireland. These unaccompanied minors have programme refugee status on arrival, the highest form of protection the State can offer. Should it be the case that despite all Ireland's efforts, the relocation mechanism does not permit Ireland to take in sufficient numbers of asylum seekers under relocation, the Government commitment to take in 4,000 people remains and Ireland will take in these numbers through other mechanisms, should this prove necessary.
As the Senator is aware, the conflict in Syria and the tragic scenes emerging almost daily are rarely out of the media these days. Consequently, and rightly so, the Government's efforts to provide a humanitarian response to the European Union migrant crisis resulting from this and other conflicts is subject to intense scrutiny by the non-governmental organisation community, the media and Irish society in general. However, more important than being able to satisfy this level of scrutiny is the need to ensure those most vulnerable refugees and asylum seekers arriving under the programme are fully supported. The support of our local communities is key to this success, and the people of Ballaghaderreen have provided a model of support that can be replicated in other localities. Should it be the case that, despite all our efforts, the relocation mechanism does not permit Ireland to take in sufficient numbers of asylum seekers under the programme, the Government commitment to take in these 4,000 people remains and Ireland will take in these numbers through other mechanisms, should this prove necessary.
I thank the Minister. It is to be welcomed that there is no question of reneging on the commitment to take in 4,000 people. That may happen through other mechanisms, systems and channels, and we can accept that as fair enough. I thank the Minister for the comprehensive reply. I draw the attention of the Minister to the third paragraph of her reply, as it states "Deputies" should be aware and I suppose it should read "Senators". I hope the Minister and her colleagues around the Cabinet table will keep this issue on the agenda. It is my intention, as long as I am here, that I will keep this as one of approximately six issues that I will bring to the fore as it is important we do it. I thank the Minister for coming here and giving the response.
It is important the Senator continues to raise the issue. Having participated in one aspect of the initiatives through the Department of Justice and Equality - my Department was involved with the matter of unaccompanied minors - I saw at first hand the complexity of the issues involved to do what we want, particularly in terms of working closely with another country. Italy is a case in point as it will not allow us to bring law enforcement people into the country to provide checks there. It is part of the mechanism for relocation. I am heartened to know, and I will work with them in this regard, that should we not be able to accept those numbers, it is the intent of the Department of Justice and Equality to find other mechanisms. With the Calais issue, for example, it was our intention to accept up to 200 unaccompanied minors, but it was very difficult to find the 20 who have come in. As they become available, effectively we have accepted them. It seems to be the case with the other programmes that as people are made available to us through mechanisms, we accept them.
Sitting suspended at 3.15 p.m. and resumed at 3.30 p.m.