Skip to main content
Normal View

Official Engagements

Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 21 June 2017

Wednesday, 21 June 2017

Questions (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)

Eamon Ryan

Question:

1. Deputy Eamon Ryan asked the Taoiseach the most recent discussions he has had with the British Prime Minister regarding the sequencing of Brexit negotiation talks. [25653/17]

View answer

Ruth Coppinger

Question:

2. Deputy Ruth Coppinger asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contact with other Heads of Government. [27222/17]

View answer

Mick Barry

Question:

3. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach if he has yet spoken to the British Prime Minister. [27227/17]

View answer

Brendan Howlin

Question:

4. Deputy Brendan Howlin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his engagements with the British Prime Minister since the UK general election. [27242/17]

View answer

Mattie McGrath

Question:

5. Deputy Mattie McGrath asked the Taoiseach the engagements that he has had with the British Prime Minister following the recent Manchester Arena and London Bridge terrorist incidents. [27549/17]

View answer

Micheál Martin

Question:

6. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach if he has spoken to the British Prime Minister, Mrs. May, or any EU leader since the horrendous attacks and loss of lives on London Bridge; and if he is setting up a COBRA type committee. [27551/17]

View answer

Eamon Ryan

Question:

7. Deputy Eamon Ryan asked the Taoiseach the discussions he has had with the British Prime Minister since assuming office. [27855/17]

View answer

Gerry Adams

Question:

8. Deputy Gerry Adams asked the Taoiseach if he has had any engagement with the British Prime Minister, Mrs. Theresa May, since he took office. [28792/17]

View answer

Richard Boyd Barrett

Question:

9. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach if he has been in contact with the British Prime Minister and other UK political leaders since the recent election. [28835/17]

View answer

Oral answers (92 contributions)

I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 9, inclusive, together.

I spoke by phone with the French President, Mr. Emmanuel Macron, the Chancellor of Germany, Dr. Angela Merkel, and the British Prime Minister, Mrs. Theresa May, on 15 June, and with Prime Minister Modi of India on 16 June.

In my call with President Macron, we spoke about working together to advance the EU reform agenda, noting that there were many areas of common interest between Ireland and France. We also discussed Brexit. We looked forward to seeing each other at the European Council in Brussels this week.

Chancellor Merkel and I discussed the Northern Ireland talks and spoke about the renewed closeness of relations between Germany and France being a positive force for the future of the EU. We also discussed Brexit, and agreed to meet for more substantive discussions in Brussels this week.

In my conversation with the British Prime Minister, Mrs. May, following my appointment, I extended the Government's sympathies to her and to the people of London on the tragic fire at the Grenfell Tower. We also discussed Brexit, and the ongoing political discussions in London and in Belfast, agreeing on the need to have the Northern Ireland Executive up and running as quickly as possible. We agreed to meet in Downing Street to continue our discussions.

In the meeting on Monday, I again expressed my sympathies on the recent tragedies and atrocities in London. We discussed the situation in Northern Ireland in some detail. We are both absolutely committed to seeing the Northern Ireland institutions back up and running as a matter of urgency. We discussed our respective contacts with the parties in recent days. I am confident that, in our role as co-guarantors of the Good Friday Agreement, we can provide resolute support and encouragement to the Northern Ireland parties in the days ahead, and that with goodwill and respect on all sides we can reach a successful conclusion to the current talks.

Now that formal negotiations between the EU and the UK have commenced, it is vital that the views and concerns of Northern Ireland are fully reflected. The Prime Minister and I reaffirmed the commitment of the two Governments to maintaining the common travel area and associated reciprocal rights, to protecting the peace process and, in particular, to keeping the Border invisible. We also recognise that this will be extremely challenging and, in the words of the EU negotiation guidelines, will require "flexible and imaginative" solutions. This Government will certainly play its part in working constructively with all our partners — in Northern Ireland, in Britain and across the EU — to find solutions that are in the best interests of everyone on these islands.

I also raised the ongoing talks between the DUP and the Conservative Party in the context of the need for impartiality of the two Governments.

The arrangements for national security are being kept under review.

I will take Question No. 7 as well, if I can, at the one go.

I am interested to hear the Taoiseach's view on what politically we can do in regard to the Brexit negotiations. Given that there is no nationalist representation in Westminster, given that there are reports today of 30 Members of the British Prime Minister, Mrs. May's own party stating that they will not accept a hard Brexit and given that there is a campaign within the British Labour Party to firm up its position to confirm an exit approach which would see Britain still within the Single Market, do we have any political strategy? Do we have any approach whatsoever? Are we merely sitting back, letting this unfold and seeing what the European negotiators deliver or do we have any role in the current chaos in the British political system to try and serve our interest, which is not a hard Brexit but a retention of Britain within the Single Market or customs union?

What does the Taoiseach say to Mrs. May when she comes back stating the British are adamant, as I understand they stated at the start of the talks, that they want to leave the customs union and the Single Market? Do we just accept that, do we say nothing, or what diplomatically and politically can we do? What influence do we have in the incredibly complex jigsaw of political parts that are now at play in Westminster, and at which there is no Irish political representation, which is a shame?

Maybe I can take an extra half a minute for Deputy Barry's question.

I must adhere to Standing Orders.

I thought the Leas-Cheann Comhairle would be liberal.

I wanted to first ask the Taoiseach about his meeting with the British Prime Minister, Mrs. May. The Taoiseach seemed a bit star struck in Downing Street. He quoted one of the worst films ever made.

Deputy Coppinger has no sense of romance.

I wonder, in between all of that, did the Taoiseach have time to ask Mrs. May what at this point is probably the biggest question on the lips of most of the population in Britain, that is, is she going to resign? I wonder if they had time to discuss the outcome of the election in Britain. Increasingly, what we saw in the election was an endorsement of left and socialist policies and I thought the Taoiseach might have an interest in that. We saw the biggest vote for a left-Labour candidate since 1945, mainly motivated by young people, by women and by traditional Labour voters who returned after the Blairites. Clearly Brexit was greeted negatively, particularly by some Members in this House last year. It was branded as being right wing and racist, but how then do these Members explain this vote which was completely the opposite? It puts it in perspective. UKIP lost all its seats and, as I stated, there was the biggest left vote since 1945.

The Taoiseach has been talking a lot about populism and so have some of his Ministers.

I thank Deputy Coppinger.

I will just finish. The Taoiseach spoke by phone with President Macron. In terms of the populist vote, where stands the Taoiseach's Minister, who talked about one-in-eight seats being for populist parties including Jeremy Corbyn? He seemed to be including those who put principled-left positions in a populist camp, which is very unprincipled.

I call Deputy Howlin.

We stand for the complete opposite.

I want to ask the Taoiseach two questions. First, in regard to his conversations with the British Prime Minister, Mrs. May, he stated afterwards that he was reassured about the DUP role in supporting the Conservative Government. What specifically did the British Prime Minister say to the Taoiseach that gave him reassurances that whatever deal is arrived at with the DUP and the Conservatives, it will have no adverse impact on the Good Friday Agreement or undermine confidence in the role of the British Government as a co-guarantor of that Agreement?

Second, on the issue of sequencing in regard to the Brexit negotiations, the UK agreed to the EU format, in that the three primary issues to be dealt with were agreed but it seems the issue relating to Ireland was long-fingered in that the border issue as it affects Ireland apparently cannot be addressed until the broader trade arrangements between the EU and Britain are agreed. Did the Taoiseach discuss that aspect with the British Prime Minister, Mrs. May, and what is her view on it?

I, too, am delighted to meet the Taoiseach on his first questions here today. The Taoiseach told us about the ambience, furniture and he waxed lyrically about poetry and history. On the serious issue regarding the Manchester Arena attack and the London Bridge attack, did the Taoiseach raise any issues with the British Prime Minister regarding post-Brexit, the borders here and our control of our own borders?

With regard to the position in which the DUP finds itself, would the British Prime Minister be able to remain impartial if she is depending on that party for support of her minority Government amid the concerns that there are no nationalists at Westminster? They were elected but, strangely, choose not to go to represent the people of Northern Ireland. Has the Taoiseach plans to talk to Mrs. May again or when is the next meeting or phone conversation envisaged? The Border is too serious an issue to let it drift on until the negotiations are complete and we all will be scratching our heads to know what to do. It will be too late then, in terms of the protection of our own borders and the protection from an influx of people here.

In yesterday's session, the Taoiseach managed to talk at some length concerning the meeting in Downing Street but, as Deputy Howlin stated, the Taoiseach did not provide us with any additional information beyond what was available in the media. The core dysfunction in the Dublin-London relationship in recent years has been that there have been many meetings but no concrete outcome. The meetings have covered up the rapid withdrawal of London and Dublin from genuine engagement, particularly in regard to the Northern institutions.

A curious outcome of Monday's meeting was the Taoiseach's statement that he had been reassured about the link between the DUP and the Tories. Could he explain what exactly that means? What was the Taoiseach reassured about? Did the British Prime Minister, Mrs. May, merely tell the Taoiseach she was committed to the Good Friday Agreement and did the Taoiseach respond that that would be great? The latest news is the DUP is still flexing its muscles and has yet to agree a formal commitment to support the Tories in divisions. The Sinn Féin line, that the DUP supporting a government in London means the London Government is breaching the Agreement, is a curious one given that the same logic would apply to Sinn Féin in Dublin.

However, there are concerns and the concerns of others are entirely legitimate. They go to the heart of whether we can trust the independence of governments in the administering of the Agreements. Will the Taoiseach, please, outline exactly what he was told that reassured him?

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett is next. I am sorry; it is Deputy Mary Lou McDonald who is next.

You nearly missed me, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle. That would not be like you.

The concern in respect of the DUP and any agreement that party might strike with the Tories is that it might contain things that would undermine the Good Friday Agreement. That is not only a concern of ours; it is broadly held, but such a deal has not been struck. Certainly, we made it clear in our meeting with Theresa May that a breach of the Good Friday Agreement was not on the cards. It simply cannot and will not be countenanced by anyone. In our discussions the reassurances simply amounted to an assertion that this would not happen. I, too, would like to hear if the Taoiseach got something more than this. If so, what was the substance of those reassurances?

The primary issue I want to raise with the Taoiseach is the fact that he had made the sensible proposition that the North remain within the Single Market and the customs union. I assume that is still his position. Certainly, it is supported by the Dáil in our support for special designated status for the North. Why did the Taoiseach not raise the issue with Theresa May? What is this jazz about invisible borders? Any border on the island would be injurious to agriculture, the economy, etc. Why is the Taoiseach even countenancing the prospect of a border? Can he answer that question? Is it still about keeping the North inside the customs union and the Single Market?

I am shocked, surprised and disappointed at the muted and pedestrian response from the Taoiseach and the Government to the horrific events in London at Grenfell Tower, where up to 80 people lost their lives in the most horrific and - it looks almost certain - scandalous circumstances. As recently as November last year, the authorities had failed to heed warnings from residents to the effect that the tower was an accident waiting to happen. I said to the Taoiseach last Tuesday that I had been told by a fire expert the week before about how a vast amount of Irish housing stock had major fire safety issues. This was confirmed over the weekend by Kevin Hollingsworth, a quantity surveyor, who said up to 40% of housing stock built during the Celtic tiger period and far more of the Irish housing stock besides was an accident waiting to happen. Spokespeople for Dublin Fire Brigade have said the same, yet we get an absolutely muted response. I am amazed that there has not been a minute's silence in the Dáil. What is more, I am amazed at the lack of urgency shown by the Government in asking whether the cladding material is being used anywhere here. Are we going to do something about self-certification in the building industry whereby designs of buildings are certified but not the actual buildings? We have experts telling us that vast portions of the housing stock are an accident waiting to happen. What is the Taoiseach going to do about it?

I call on the Taoiseach to respond. I will give him three minutes in total.

There is no chance I will be able to respond to all of that in three minutes.

Make the best of it.

I will do the best I can.

The first question was about the political approach taken. Of course, it is happening at multiple levels. Bilateral contacts between the Irish Government and the UK Government are ongoing. I had a meeting with Theresa May on Monday and will meet her again tomorrow or the day after in Brussels where we will attend the European Council. We are working hard. The Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Simon Coveney, is in Northern Ireland to try to get the Northern Ireland Executive up and running. We want it up and running to give Northern Ireland a unique voice and ensure there will be an executive in Northern Ireland that can put forward solutions for it supported by the people of Northern Ireland. We want to put pressure on in London and Brussels to deliver them. There is an absence of nationalist representation at Westminster. I regret that that is the case. I think it is the first time in over 100 years there will be no nationalist representation at Westminster.

I think it is marvellous. Is that not the objective of a free and independent Ireland - to be free from Westminster?

Yes, it is, but abstentionism did not achieve it. It did not achieve it for the Twenty-six Counties and I do not see how it would achieve it for the Six Counties.

Actually that was the basis on which the first Dáil was established.

The Deputy should go softly.

The Taoiseach to continue, without interruption, because the clock is still ticking.

If we take 23 away from 26, we are left with three.

No bilateral discussion, please.

In the absence of that one thing, we are working with and trying to-----

That was partition.

(Interruptions).

The Taoiseach to continue, without interruption, or we will move on.

Test the election-----

(Interruptions).

History is the order of the day.

We will move on to Question No. 10 if Deputies are not prepared to listen to the Taoiseach.

We are listening with bated breath.

He deserves to be heard.

My apologies, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

That is one for the black book.

Surely you mean the red book.

There is one group with which we are working and hoping to reactivate. I cannot remember its exact name, but it is a British-Irish friendship group. It involves MPs at Westminster from all parties with a particular interest in Ireland. I understand it is led by Conor McGinn, MP. We are trying to make use of that body, a little like the Irish National Caucus in Washington, for obvious reasons. It is something into which we are going to put more effort and resources in the absence of the SDLP representation at Westminster.

I am disappointed that Deputy Ruth Coppinger does not like "Love, Actually".

Not even Hugh Grant would say it was his finest hour.

Knowing the Deputy for as long as I do, I would never put her down as a romantic.

(Interruptions).

I suppose everyone should be relieved that I spoke about "Love Actually" and not "Notting Hill" because that would have been a very different scene at the door of No. 10 had it transpired.

The romantic poets are my favourite.

Be serious in answering questions.

I asked about the Single Market; never mind Hugh Grant.

I am going through the questions as they were asked one by one. I do not control the questions asked by Members of the Opposition.

I was asked about populism. Of course, there are forms of populism that amount to populism of the left and there is also populism of the right. Populism of the left is what we tend to call transitional demand. Proponents make claims that they know cannot be achieved, but they are used to cause people to vote for them. Then, once in power, the proponents abandon them. It is similar to the approach used by-----

There is also populism of the centre. It involves people making election promises that they do not intend to keep.

It is the time-honoured approach used by the Soviets, Bolsheviks and Trotskyites.

(Interruptions).

They promise the masses – to use the term favoured by the Deputy – something that cannot be achieved in order to secure power. Then they turn around and tell them that it cannot be done and that they are going to the gulag.

We promised to get rid of water charges and we did.

There is plenty of populism on the left.

There will be red cards.

It will be tempting to bring back Deputy Enda Kenny shortly.

I did not ask her when she was going to resign. The object of the visit was to make friends, not enemies. I know that the Deputy does not believe in that approach either, but I was there to make friends.

(Interruptions).

I think we managed to begin the start of a relationship. The result of the election in Britain deserves analysis. Some of what the Deputy has said is true, but there is also another part to it. In wealthy constituencies in London there was a big increase in the vote of the UK Labour Party. They are not people who want their properties to be confiscated or who want to pay higher taxes. Many in Britain are angry remainers, especially in the south east, and they are right to be angry. They decided to vote for the Labour Party, notwithstanding the economic policies of Jeremy Corbyn. That is part of the coalition he put together and it is an interesting part of the analysis that deserves more attention.

It had more to do with the young voting.

As I have said on many occasions, I do not believe the politics of the future is about the traditional left-right divide. There are others, one of which is the difference between being open and closed. Many in the United Kingdom who believe in openness, free trade multilaterism and the European Union on this occasion voted for the Labour Party, whereas in the past they might have voted for the Liberal Democrats or a liberal Conservative.

What about my question on the London fire?

I asked about the customs union.

A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, the Taoiseach did not answer the question about the London fire.

We are eating into the time for other questions.

Will the Taoiseach respond to the question on the London fire?

There are lots of questions I did not answer. I would be happy to answer them.

That is a pretty serious question.

(Interruptions).

It is serious. They are all serious.

On a point of order-----

It is not a point of order but raise it.

What this reveals is the fault of no one in particular; it is the fact that when we have so many questions taken together, we only get a minute, which is not satisfactory. The matter should be referred back to the Business Committee.

It may be a matter for the reform committee.

It is not a satisfactory way of doing business.

Will the Taoiseach, please, answer the question on the London fire?

On a point of order, if I may-----

I do not think it would be normal. I am here since 1981, except for a few years, and I have never heard a Taoiseach raise a point of order.

New Taoiseach, new times, new boss.

If I can be helpful to the Taoiseach, I will try.

I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

Just answer the question.

Different boss.

On two points of order I agree with Deputy Martin. First, this procedure needs to be referred to the Business Committee. This is not a way to do questions and answers.

There is consensus on that.

Second, I would be happy to answer the remainder of the questions but I am not going to pick three to answer and one to leave out. I do not think it is fair. If the Leas-Cheann Comhairle will give me extra time, I will answer them.

There is consensus on reform. Let us move on to Question No. 10.

I would like the extra time.

It is outside my control. The Taoiseach has six and a half minutes to answer Question No. 10.

Deputy Boyd Barrett can bring the matter up in Private Members' time tonight.

We will not hear the Taoiseach then.

Top
Share