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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 18 Jan 2018

Vol. 963 No. 7

Other Questions

Public Sector Pay

Dara Calleary

Question:

7. Deputy Dara Calleary asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the progress his Department has made on the report on pay equalisation as specified in the Public Service Pay and Pensions Act 2017; the scope of the report; the timeframe involved; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2339/18]

We proposed an amendment to the Public Service Pay and Pensions Bill on pay equalisation and I want to ensure that this is working its way through the system.

The Public Service Stability Agreement 2018-2020 provided that an examination of remaining salary scale issues in respect of post-January 2011 recruits at entry levels would be undertaken within 12 months of the commencement of the agreement. Additionally, as the Deputy is aware, he proposed, and this Government accepted, an amendment to section 11 of the Public Service Pay and Pensions Act 2017 which provides for the implementation of the terms of the agreement. This amendment provided that I will, within three months of the passing of the Act, prepare and lay before the Oireachtas a report on the cost of and a plan in dealing with pay equalisation for new entrants to the public service. This is a significant piece of work and the Irish Government Economic Evaluation Service has been assigned to collect, collate and examine the data and provide detailed point in time costs associated with the measure.

With regard to working on and dealing with the substantive issue, work has commenced and engagement is under way on the matter of data availability. It is taking place with the HSE, the Department of Education and Skills, the Office of the Government Chief Information Officer and the Department of Defence. Further meetings are being scheduled with the remaining 12 sectors and we will meet the timeline to which I committed with the Deputy in the amendment I accepted from him in December in the debate on and the passage of the legislation.

I welcome the clarification. It is also welcome that the Minister has the work under way through the Irish Government Economic and Evaluation Service. Will the service be consulting purely on figures or will it also engage with the unions involved before the March deadline? Is it just to give us the information to allow us to cost the measures and then proceed with the work of the Public Service Pay Commission?

I will not be engaging directly with the unions on the matter. It is the work of my Department and the industrial relations sections of other Departments to deal with them and they will continue to do so. The work of the Irish Government Economic and Evaluation Service will be, as the Deputy said, to respond and provide the information on the cost and consequences of the measure and to place the issue in the broader context of what is happening within the economy and current wage trends. As I said, the commitment I gave to the Deputy in December will be honoured and the report will be delivered to the House.

I thank the Minister.

Capital Expenditure Programme

Bernard Durkan

Question:

8. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform his plans to prioritise particular projects in the context of the capital review programme; the extent to which he expects to address issues in health, housing or other sensitive areas in this context; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2344/18]

My question relates to the extent to which the Minister might find it possible, in the context of the capital review programme, to identify the most important items of infrastructure with a view to benefiting the economy.

I thank the Deputy for his question. I recognise his ongoing commitment to dealing with this issue, the work he has done in the Oireachtas and the parliamentary party to draw attention to the issue of housing supply and point to the terrible social costs experienced by people who are under pressure in their accommodation or in not being able to find accommodation. I am aware that he wants us to do more quickly and I am doing my best to do so. I just wanted to express my appreciation of his efforts.

The Deputy is aware that we have increased capital expenditure to meet housing needs. A recent example is the further €100 million made available before Christmas on foot of the work done by the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, to ensure we could invest in local housing programmes such as home hubs and to respond to the social housing needs identified by local authorities. A traditional challenge has been local authorities not drawing down the available funding to meet housing needs. I am pleased to say, however, that last year all of the funding made available for housing was drawn by local authorities. The Minister, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, approached me towards the end of 2017 to say he believed there was an opportunity to invest more to ensure the programmes to which we had committed would happen. On that basis, we brought forward the Supplementary Estimate of €100 million for the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government. I believe we are making progress. The Deputy and I are both aware that we want to make more progress and address the challenges. I will continue to do my best, with the Minister, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, to do that and take on board the warnings and advice the Deputy offers on the issue.

I thank the Minister. I acknowledge his understanding of the matter, with that of the Minister, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, and other Members of the House. Given the extensive challenge presented by the sector, does the Minister believe that it might be possible in the short term to make an intervention or to assist the Minister, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, in making an intervention that would have a dramatic impact on those most seriously affected by the housing crisis? People are living in hotels, guest houses and the open air. Children are at risk as a result of circumstances beyond their control and it appears the country.

You can never recover a childhood. Families with young children are living in hotel accommodation. They include children who are attending primary and secondary school. Our commitment to give them the housing and accommodation they need is genuine. That is the reason we made additional funds available towards the end of 2017 to tackle this and other matters.

The Deputy made reference to a dramatic intervention. I have dealt with this issue on a constituency level for many years and the experience has given me an appreciation of the difficulties caused, especially when one arrives at a home in the constituency to see all of the generations living under the same roof. Would a sudden intervention make a big difference? I am concerned that it might not. The way to make a difference is the way we have tackled other problems in the State to try to improve week after week and month after month where we stand. There is urgency and we will continue to support the Minister, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, through anything we can do to tackle what is the burning issue in the country.

Question No. 9 replied to with Written Answers

Public Service Pay Commission

Dara Calleary

Question:

10. Deputy Dara Calleary asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform his plans to review and address recruitment and retention issues in various areas of the public service; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2342/18]

During the course of last year there was a major issue in some areas of the public service. Once again the health sector was highlighted in the past few weeks owing to the difficulties faced in the recruitment of nurses and emergency doctors. Difficulties are also evident in the disability services. There was a debate in the House yesterday on section 39 organisations. What are the specific plans in place and the targets for recruitment campaigns in the next quarter to fill vacancies in these areas of the public service?

In devising a strategy to address recruitment and retention issues in the public service the Deputy will be aware that the Government approved the terms of reference for the second phase of work of the Public Service Pay Commission to address identified recruitment and retention issues in the public service. Provision for this process was included in the public service stability agreement 2018-2020, PSSA. The Deputy will recall that the commission’s first report recommended a more comprehensive examination by it of underlying difficulties in recruitment and retention in sectors and employment streams of the public service where difficulties were clearly evident. The commission’s approach will seek to identify where and to what extent there are difficulties in recruitment and retention for specific groups, grades and sectors of the public service. In such cases the commission will examine the full range of underlying factors, including the elements underpinning current remuneration packages, planned future pay adjustments, the alleviation of pension-related deductions as provided for in the PSSA and the FEMPI legislation post-2020. The commission will also look at best practice in other jurisdictions and, where appropriate, the domestic private sector in Ireland in addressing such issues. It will also look at supply constraints such as those relating to newly qualified graduates from relevant post-leaving certificate and third level programmes, career structures and other relevant HR practice or organisational issues.

The parties to the PSSA will have an opportunity to make submissions to the commission as an important part of the process. In conducting the work in its second phase the commission has access to external expertise to inform its deliberations. It will seek to bring forward a preliminary report during the year ahead and a final report on all these matters by end of the year, as agreed in the PSSA.

While I appreciate the work being done by the Public Service Pay Commission, I specifically want to know what will happen in the next quarter. Will there be any focused recruitment campaign launched for the health service or the education sector in which there is also a crisis in finding substitute teachers.

The latter matter was highlighted on a number of occasions, particularly in the past week.

I note the commission is looking at pay and conditions, but is there a plan to examine overall HR practices within the civil and public services? Are these best practice, in terms of where we are at in 2018 and in terms of the lifestyle trends of people who we want to get working? Do they facilitate the choices people are making now, in terms of taking time out to travel and for other reasons, such as further study? Can the Minister honestly say that the HR practices across the civil and public services are fit for purpose in 2018?

In regard to the Deputy's first question, I do not agree there is a crisis in recruitment or retention within schools. We are hiring more teachers and we are lucky with the quality of both the graduates who have come through and those who are qualifying from the teaching colleges who are coming into the schools. The Minister for Education and Skills has acknowledged that in a number of particular areas within teaching we are experiencing some recruitment and retention difficulties and he has said that he will bring forward proposals and measures to deal with that.

In regard to the Deputy's second question on whether HR practices are fit for purpose, to be honest, the answer varies by sector. If I look at where we are from a Civil Service perspective, I believe we have HR practices in place that are fit for purposes but I have asked the Public Service Pay Commission to look at HR practices in the particular sectors I touched on a moment ago. I am strongly of the view that if the commission points to difficulties - matters such as career planning, allowing people to study and recognising that people might need to work at different paces at different points in their careers are at the heart of some of the issues we may need to address - it will examine them. It will look at whether such practices are consistently applied throughout the country.

I disagree with the Minister. If the Minister thought "Morning Ireland" was difficult this morning, imagine being a primary school principal trying to find a substitute teacher at 8 a.m. this morning. Sitting at a phone, going through the list and trying to find one, which is virtually impossible for many of them. That was highlighted by the Irish Primary Principals' Network. If the Minister was a principal in a secondary school, he would experience the difficulties of trying to get teachers to fill vacancies in science or any of the subjects we value so much, such as mathematics. The reason there are so few people applying to be teachers in those subjects is because it is not seen as attractive. Pay is one issue. Pay equalisation is a key issue which the Minister has discussed, but there are the other issues.

I welcome the Minister's acknowledgement that there are areas of HR that need to be examined but we need to look at this in the round. There is a crisis. There is a shortage of nurses. That has been evident over the past number of weeks. There is a shortage of emergency doctors. That is being highlighted by the Minister for Health. There are so many areas into which we need to inject urgency. We also need to recognise that pay is an issue but it is not the only issue discouraging people from applying for jobs in the public service.

I was responding to the Deputy's question, particularly in regard to education. I never said there were not any difficulties. There are difficulties. Where I differ is that we will respond to the difficulties. The Minister for Education and Skills has stated we already do that. We must view the difficulties that we are referring to against the background of two developments. The first is that we are recruiting more teachers and nurses than we have done in the past. We have the ability to do it. Second, an ingredient in all that is the fact that we now have a labour market that is recovering and very healthy. It is entirely possible that we will get to a point this year where we will have more people at work than we have ever had before. This is only a few short years after us battling with the unemployment crisis within our country. Any difficulties, including those the Deputy correctly pointed to, have to be set against the backdrop of the fact that we have over 2 million people at work and we are seeing employment growth begin to be broad-based and across the country.

In response to the Deputy's second point, I agree that we must look at these matters in the round. The Public Service Pay Commission may point to where we are on pay - the commission will look at it - but I am confident it will look at other issues as well.

Public Procurement Contracts

Mick Barry

Question:

11. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform if his Department will issue guidelines to other Departments regarding the engagement of private companies for contract work; if the working conditions of staff in these companies' firms, including trade union recognition, will be considered; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2163/18]

When other Departments engage private companies for contract work, will the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform issue guidelines as to the regard to be given to the conditions of workers in those private companies, including trade union recognition? I am interested to hear a statement on that matter.

I thank the Deputy for the question. Public procurement is the acquisition, whether under formal contract or not, of works, supplies and services by public bodies. National rules governing public procurement must comply with the relevant EU, WTO and national legal requirements and obligations. Under EU law, public contracts above a certain value must be advertised EU-wide and awarded to the most competitive tender in an open and objective process. The aim of European and national rules is to promote an open, competitive and non-discriminatory public procurement regime which delivers best value for money.

In this regard, public procurement rules include provisions that allow member states to require a contractor to comply with EU and national legislation on the protection of labour rights. As a consequence, public procurement procedures require applicants to meet certain standards when applying for public contracts and applicants are required to make declarations in regard to their financial standing and legal standing and in regard to payment of taxes and social contributions. They must also be compliant with relevant labour law. These requirements are set out in the template documents used in tendering for goods and services which have been developed by the Office of Government Procurement in conjunction with the Office of the Attorney General and the Chief State Solicitor's office.

I launched new Public Procurement Guidelines for Goods and Services last July. These guidelines promote and reinforce improved best practice, standardisation and consistency of approach among public procurement practitioners. However, the management of a tendering process for a public contract is a matter for each contracting authority and it is the contracting authority's responsibility to assess that tenderers comply with all the requirements of the process.

Once awarded, the conditions of the public works contracts require the contractor to certify compliance with employment law, to maintain records of all those employed on the site, regardless of whether they are employees of the contractor or their subcontractors, and the hours worked by them. Where requested, the contractor must also provide details of the payments made to those employed on the site.

Where the contractor fails to comply with its obligations under the contract or employment law, deductions may be made from payments due under the contract until the situation is rectified.

It is important to note that employment law and its enforcement, in both public and private contracts, is a matter for the relevant State authorities, including the Workplace Relations Commission and the Departments of Business, Enterprise and Innovation and Employment Affairs and Social Protection.

I specifically want to raise the case of a company called Extern. This is a Northern Ireland based company with charitable status. It has been engaged by a number of Departments, including the Department of Children and Youth Affairs, the Department of Justice and Equality, and the HSE. It has 450 employees, North and South. It operates in 40 locations across the island and provides services, it claims on its website, to 15,000 persons. This company refuses to recognise a trade union here in the Republic. The union in question is the Unite trade union and the official who has been making the efforts is Mr. Roy Hassey. The Departments, when contacted by the union, refuse to engage. The Department of Justice and Equality, in a written response, states it is referring the matter to the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform.

Non-recognition is bad enough. What is more galling is the fact that Extern also obtains contracts of a similar type from government Departments in Northern Ireland and yet there, its employees' union, NIPSA, the Northern Ireland Public Service Alliance, is recognised by Extern management.

Can the Minister of State stand over such partitionist double standards? The fact is that the Minister of State's colleagues in other Departments seem not only to stand over it but to reward it.

The Deputy raises a specific case. It is the first time that I have heard of it. I will not comment on a specific case. To do so would not be fair, to be quite honest about it, because I do not have the details. I have taken a note of what the Deputy has said and I will review the matter with the relevant officials when I return to my Department.

I wish to reiterate that the role of the Office of Government Procurement is in the setting out of the contract tendering process. It is a matter for the tendering authority - I do not know to which tendering authority the Deputy is referring - to ensure that all conditions laid down under Irish law, as well as any EU provisions, are complied with. It is a matter for whatever agency of the State is the tendering authority in this case. As I said in my initial response, there are mechanisms available to everybody, including the Workplace Relations Commission, but I do not know the details of the specific case the Deputy has raised and will not comment on it today.

I ask the Minister of State to send me a written reply to my question after he discusses the specific case with his officials. However, this issue does not solely involve Extern. Departments and local authorities have awarded construction contracts to firms that have delivered on those contracts on the basis of bogus self-employment practices when it was clear from the outset that the bids were so low that they could be only delivered in such a manner. We have submitted written questions to the Minister of State and other Ministers regarding the collapse of the UK-based firm, Carillion, which not only affects Britain as it has jeopardised various public works in Ireland, including the construction of six schools. A profound debate has been taking place in Britain over the past week on the need to reverse the trend of outsourcing for several reasons, not just because of the ability or inability of private firms to deliver but also because of the important question of workers' rights. Such a debate needs to take place here. I put it to the Minister of State that it is clear the Government is at one with the Tories in the United Kingdom on such issues.

I will not be drawn into the cul-de-sac of name calling that Deputy Barry wants. This is an important issue and his attempt to trivialise it at the end of his contribution does not do it any fairness or justice. For the record and the information of the House, I discussed this matter with the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, this morning.

As regards the other matter also raised by Deputy Calleary, the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, is very confident that the schools potentially affected by the collapse of Carillion will be delivered and he yesterday spoke to the National Development Finance Agency, NDFA, in that regard. He is very confident that the risk to those schools will be mitigated and they will be looked after. However, I will not be drawn into specific allegations that have been made regarding named companies. I have noted the name of the company and will refer the matter to my officials and revert to the Deputy in due course.

Public Sector Expenditure

Dara Calleary

Question:

12. Deputy Dara Calleary asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the actions taken in the event that spending projections across Departments are not met; if the €317 million underspend in net voted expenditure in 12 Departments announced in the December 2017 Fiscal Monitor will be returned to the central fund or if the funds will be kept in the Departments; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2343/18]

I ask the Minister to confirm the end-of-year figures in terms of current and capital underspend. I note a total of €352 million, made up of €314 million and €38 million. Will that underspend be retained in each Department or go back into the Central Funds?

The effective management of the delivery of public services within budgetary allocations is a key responsibility for each Minister and their Department on an ongoing basis. My Department is in regular contact during the year with all other Departments and offices to ensure that expenditure is being managed within the overall budgetary parameters. Information in regard to gross and net voted expenditure is published monthly in the Department of Finance’s Fiscal Monitor.

Given the scale of overall voted expenditure, the cash basis of Government accounting and the funding implications that unexpected events can have on expenditure requirements, variances from spending profiles can occur for a number of reasons. At the end of December last year, net voted expenditure was €46.29 billion in total. Net current expenditure amounted to €41.968 billion and net capital expenditure amounted to €4.3 billion. In overall terms, this level of spend is €352 million, or 0.8%, above profile based on the Revised Estimates Volume published in December 2016. The expenditure report of 2018, published on budget day, updated the estimated expenditure position for 2017. The expenditure outturn for the year is broadly in line with the updated estimate of €46.72 billion.

As the Deputy will be aware, Supplementary Estimates of €491 million were agreed by the Dáil in December. As we are operating under the preventive arm of the Stability and Growth Pact, Supplementary Estimates must be accommodated within the requirements of the fiscal rules. Where there are underspends across Departments, they can be used to offset additional expenditure in other areas. Thus, the underspends of €317 million for 2017 across 12 Departments, as noted by the Deputy, will offset the impact of the Supplementary Estimates and the balance will be surrendered to the Exchequer based on the appropriation account outturn.

What amount does the Minister anticipate will be surrendered to the Exchequer following that process? Does any Department give him cause for particular concern? For example, the Department of Health is €195 million above profile in terms of current expenditure yet at the final Cabinet meeting before Christmas a health service plan for 2018 was published, wherein the Director General of the HSE stated there was €346 million of planned expenditure for which he had no money. Will we see another figure next year for an overspend in the Department of Health? Those who are depending on fodder and awaiting a proper response from the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine will be perturbed by the €73 million underspend within that Department in terms of current spending. Some Departments have huge expenditure pressures but are sending in under budgets and then once again the Department is significantly over current profile.

As regards the Deputy's first question, as we are currently in mid-January I am not yet in a position to tell the Deputy the net amount that will be left once the underspends in individual Departments are offset against the additional costs to which I referred. However, I expect that the net underspend will be a very small amount of the total €46.27 billion the State spent last year.

I do not currently have additional concerns relating to any individual Department. It is correct that the Department of Health in recent years has received additional support from my Department to help it meet needs relating to costs that develop throughout the year. If I did not respond to such needs, I would be criticised for not dealing with service needs that exist. However, we continue to expect all Departments to live within their means, as is the case overall in terms of the total figures available to the Government.

Questions Nos. 13 and 14 replied to with Written Answers.

Public Sector Staff Retirements

Peter Burke

Question:

15. Deputy Peter Burke asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the status of the proposed legislation to increase the compulsory retirement age for public servants to 70 years of age; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2121/18]

John Brady

Question:

40. Deputy John Brady asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the reason public service workers who wish to remain at work beyond 65 years of age will see wage cuts as per the terms and conditions set out for those wishing to remain at work; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2349/18]

I want to ask the Minister about the announcement he made last December whereby he decided to increase the retirement age for public service workers from 65 to 70. That must be welcomed, although it does not go far enough. The Minister is aware that I put forward legislation to ensure no worker would be subject to a mandatory retirement age. However, there is some concern on this issue. With whom did the Minister consult regarding the interim arrangements he announced in a circular dated 7 December?

I propose to take Questions Nos. 15 and 40 together.

The Government agreed on 5 December 2017 that the compulsory retirement age of public servants recruited before 1 April 2004 should be increased to age 70. This group of public servants currently has a compulsory retirement age of 65. Primary legislation will be required for the changes to be implemented.

In approving the proposals, the Government also approved the general scheme of a Bill to give effect to the changes. The Attorney General’s office has been asked to give priority to the drafting of this legislation so that the new compulsory retirement age for pre-2004 public servants will become effective as soon as possible. The new compulsory retirement age will only apply to pre-2004 public servants who reach the age of 65 following the commencement of the new legislation.

In the meantime, the Government has approved some limited interim arrangements to apply in the period between the Government decision and the commencement of the necessary legislation. The interim arrangements, through retirement and rehire, will allow pre-2004 public servants who reach the age of 65 in that period to remain in employment only until they reach the age of eligibility for the State contributory pension, which is currently 66 years of age. The interim arrangements will not apply in the case of public servants who, at the age of 65, were facilitated by their employer to remain at work until age 66, as they will have already reached the age of eligibility for the State contributory pension, which is currently 66 years of age and will remain at that age until 2021.

The policy across the public service is that where a retired employee is rehired they are paid at the minimum point of the relevant scale rather than at the pay point they had reached when they retired. This practice is continuing in the context of the interim arrangements. We consulted all the unions on this matter, and its introduction has been broadly welcomed by those who work in the public service and those who represent them.

It was a welcome step in the right direction. I brought forward legislation, which the Government is sitting on, which would ensure that there is no mandated retirement age for any worker, whether in the private or public sector. We are not yet in a position to advance that. It has gone through Second Stage and pre-committee scrutiny, and we are waiting for a money message. There are serious concerns around the interim arrangements announced by the Department on 7 December concerning public service workers. People will be forced to retire once they reach the age of 65. They will then be rehired by the Department, but on the lowest pay scale within the relevant sector. The Minister is saying that he wants to address that issue for these workers, yet they are being brought back to work on a lower pay scale and will not be in a position to continue to build up their pension.

How long is this interim arrangement going to be in place for? When will we see the legislation, and when will the heads of the Bill be published so that we know that this interim arrangement will be brought to an end and that public service workers will be able to stay, if they so wish, in the area in which they are employed at the relevant pay scales?

I thank the Deputy for the support he has offered to this policy. To answer his questions, if I did not have interim arrangements in place I would be accused of having announced a policy that is not going to happen. We have to legislate to make it happen. The legislation is being drafted at the moment, and my officials are working as hard as possible to get the work done. Its appearance before the House is, of course, a matter for the Business Committee, but I am aiming to bring proposals to Government on the matter as soon as I can.

On the particular matter mentioned by the Deputy, it must be recognised that the people we are referring to have already retired. Under the interim arrangement we are announcing, the people who will be affected by this are people who have retired. They are retiring because we do not have the legislation in place. They will come back to work and still receive their pension. Under the principles of abatement, they cannot be in a place where the pension and salary they receive is cumulatively higher than what they received in the past. That is why the provision is in place that they will return to work at the minimum point of the pay scale. The rationale for this was understood by those we negotiated and discussed this matter with. I hope to be in a position to bring in the legislation so that the workers concerned are not retiring in the first place.

We need the legislation. It should be in place as soon as possible, because the interim arrangements are certainly not attractive for anybody. The Minister is saying people should have the opportunity to remain in the workforce, but there is no incentive for them to do so if they are coming back on a lower pay scale and terms and conditions different from those which they were previously employed under. We need to see the legislation, and it needs to be brought forward as quickly as possible. I have spoken to numerous public sector workers who are reaching retirement age. These interim arrangements do not make it attractive for them and there is no incentive to remain on. We need legislation for this as quickly as possible.

The legislation I published seeks to ensure there will be no mandatory retirement age for any worker, whether in the public or private sector. The Minister is sitting on that legislation. We are waiting on a money message from Government to ensure it can get to Committee Stage, where it can be advanced.

I am not sitting on any legislation on this issue. The policy on the minimum retirement age across the entire economy is a matter for either the Minister for Business, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Humphreys, or the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection, Deputy Regina Doherty. We are not seeking to incentivise people to make a choice. We are simply recognising the choice that employees want to make. In many cases, the rationale for why people want to continue working after reaching retirement age is not always a financial matter. As people approach retirement age, they are still able to contribute so much, whether to the classroom, the hospital or the workplace. They want to continue working. That is a win-win for the country, because these people have the expertise and experience built up that allows that work to be done well. We are now in a position where we can recruit new and younger workers to our public service. The reason people are coming back in at the minimum point on the salary scale is that these workers have already retired and we must bear in mind the principles of abatement which have been in operation in our Civil Service workplaces for quite a while. I hope to be able to deal with the matter in its entirety when I bring forward the legislation to deal with it. When it passes it will mean that the workers the Deputy referred to will not have retired in the first place.

Question No. 16 replied to with Written Answers.

Flood Relief Schemes Status

Dara Calleary

Question:

17. Deputy Dara Calleary asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the status of the flooding projects undertaken in 2017; the status of the projects planned for 2018; the position regarding CFRAM; if his Department has a role in ensuring insurance companies process storm damage claims in a timely manner; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2340/18]

We had a short discussion prior to Christmas about catchment flood risk assessment and management, CFRAM, and insurance. I know the Minister and his yellow jacket have been on tour around the country, along with various Fine Gael Ministers, since then. Where are we on the CFRAM issue? I understand the Minister is planning some big announcements in the next while. Where are we with insurance companies, in particular concerning the events in Galway and other places over Christmas? Insurance companies are continuing to use the CFRAM consultation maps to exclude people from insurance claims around the country.

The following tables set out the position on major flood relief schemes, that is, those that were at construction in 2017 and those that will be at construction stage in 2018.

Table 1 (Schemes at construction in 2017)

Scheme

Status

Athlone, Co Westmeath

At construction since 2017; expected completion end of 2020

Bandon, Co Cork

Construction ongoing; expected completion second half 2019

Bellurgan, Co Louth

Commenced construction in 2017; expected completion 2018

Bray, Co Wicklow

Construction completed in 2017

Claregalway, Co Galway

Construction ongoing; expected completion by end 2018

River Dodder, Dublin

Construction ongoing; expected completion by end of 2018

Dunkellin River, Co Galway

Construction ongoing; expected completion early 2019

Ennis Lower, Co Clare

Construction ongoing; expected completion by end of 2018

Foynes, Co Limerick

Construction completed in 2017

Limerick City, King’s Island advance contract at Verdant Place

Advance contract completed. Construction on main scheme likely in 2019

Northlands, Co Meath

Substantially completed at end 2017

Skibbereen, Co Cork

Construction ongoing; expected completion by mid 2019

South Campshires, Dublin

Substantially completed at end 2017

Templemore, Co Tipperary

At construction since 2017; expected completion by end 2020

Table 2 (Schemes at construction/likely to be at construction in 2018)

Scheme

Status

Athlone, Co Westmeath

Ongoing construction; expected completion by end 2020

Bandon, Co Cork

Ongoing construction; expected completion second half 2019

Bellurgan, Co Louth

Construction to be completed in 2018

Blackpool, Cork

Construction to commence second half of 2018; expected completion by end 2020

Claregalway, Co Galway

Ongoing construction; expected completion by end 2018

Clonakilty, Co Cork

Construction to commence in first half of 2018; expected completion by end 2020

River Dodder, Dublin

Ongoing construction; expected completion by end 2018

Douglas, Cork

Construction to commence in second half of 2018; expected completion by end 2020

Dunkellin River, Co Galway

Ongoing construction; expected completion in early 2019

Ennis Lower, Co Clare

Ongoing construction; expected completion by end 2018

Ennis South, Co Clare

Construction to commence in first half of 2018; expected completion by end 2019

Glashaboy, Co Cork

Construction to commence in second half of 2018; expected completion by end 2020

Lower Lee (Morrisons’ Island) Cork City

Construction to commence in second half of 2018; expected completion in 2024

Lower Morrell, Co Kildare

Construction to commence in first half of 2018; expected completion in mid 2021

Sandymount (Phase 1), Dublin

Construction to commence in first half of 2018; expected completion in mid 2019

Skibbereen, Co Cork

Ongoing construction; expected completion by mid 2019

Templemore, Co Tipperary

Ongoing construction; expected completion by end 2020

The Deputy has raised this question a number of times, so I will outline the good work that has been done by my Department by naming the schemes for the House today. Schemes are in place in County Cork, County Louth, County Wicklow, County Galway, County Dublin, County Clare, County Limerick, Limerick city, County Meath, County Tipperary, County Westmeath, Cork city and County Kildare.

In addition to the above projects, under the existing programme of capital flood relief works, a further 18 schemes are at various stages of design and planning and will be brought forward to construction over the coming years.

In addition to the major schemes, the OPW provides funding to local authorities to carry out minor flood mitigation and coastal erosion works, with 60 projects being completed in 2017. The 29 flood risk management plans developed under the CFRAM programme are undergoing an independent review of the strategic environmental assessments, SEAs, by the Minister for Finance and Public Expenditure and Reform. Once this independent review of all SEAs is completed and observations addressed, I hope in the coming weeks to seek the formal approval from the Minister for Finance and Public Expenditure and Reform for the plans. A number of the proposed structural measures included in the plans will be progressed to detailed project level review and design on a priority basis during 2018.

The OPW has no role in the oversight of insurance companies or their commercial operations but does exchange information with the insurance industry on completed flood defence schemes, in line with the agreed memorandum of understanding with Insurance Ireland, the representative body for the insurance industry. To date, the OPW has provided details to Insurance Ireland on 18 completed schemes nationally and Insurance Ireland surveys its members to ascertain the extent to which flood insurance cover is available in these areas. The results of the most recent survey indicated that 83% of property insurance policies in these areas include cover against flood risk. We are making significant progress on insurance.

I am delighted that the Minister of State had the opportunity to name into the record all the counties to which he has travelled in recent weeks. On his last point, it is correct that people are being offered cover but it is at unsustainable rates for the customer. Those maps are being used to charge premiums that are unfair and unaffordable in many cases.

Does the Minister of State have a timeline for the independent review being carried out by the Minister for Finance and for Public Expenditure and Reform, who is sitting two seats away from the Minister of State and who is his Minister on this matter? Will we have it by February? Will it feature implications for the capital plan?

Deputy Niall Collins has a supplementary question and we will take them together.

I wish to raise an issue in my own constituency with which the Minister of State will be well aware, namely, the property of Mr. Eamon Roche in Abbeyfeale which is likely to be washed away due to the erosion of the riverbank at the River Feale. I want to make the Minister of State aware that another public meeting was held this week and there is much concern over what will happen on this. The Minister of State has had extensive engagement on the matter, to be fair to him and his Department, but it seems as though everyone is running for cover while in the meantime this man's house will be literally washed down the river. Is the Minister of State in any position to give us an update or provide any comfort to Mr. Roche and his family given the perilous situation in which they have found themselves?

The answer to Deputy Calleary's question is that the review of CFRAM will be announced in a few weeks. On the Deputy's question about flood maps, I can assure him that the CFRAM maps are not being used by Insurance Ireland and I will not allow it to do so. They are done on a regional basis, not on a house-to-house basis. If Insurance Ireland is using maps, it is using its own and not of CFRAM.

On the situation in Abbeyfeale, many Deputies have raised this issue, including the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donovan, who has left the Chamber. I have met the local authority. This is not a flooding issue. It lies solely with the local authority and the developer in question. The house was not flooded. Part of the embankment and the supports that were set up to support the house have been taken away into the river. I received some angry exchanges over Christmas from certain quarters in the area. I am not responsible for the particular matter which is a matter for the local authority and the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government, which has full responsibility. They are responsible, not my Department.

Question No. 18 replied to with Written Answers.

Flood Relief Schemes Funding

Jonathan O'Brien

Question:

19. Deputy Jonathan O'Brien asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform his plans to prioritise the flood defence needs of the State in the next capital plan; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2334/18]

This is to ask the Minister of State about capital spending on flood defence projects and if he will make a statement on the priorities.

A new ten-year capital plan is in the process of being finalised. The plan, which will be published alongside the new national planning framework, Ireland 2040, will set out the Government's intentions on public capital investment beyond 2021. Details on the exact level of funding over the period 2022 to 2027 cannot be confirmed in advance of the publication of the plan.

The Government has committed to significant increased investment in flood risk management in the current capital investment plan for 2016 to 2021 which provides an allocation of €430 million during the lifetime of the current plan. I anticipate that the new capital plan for 2018 to 2027 will provide for a continuation of this increased level of investment in flood risk management to enable the remaining significant flood risk in the country to be addressed.

The Office of Public Works, OPW, is advancing 42 major flood relief schemes under its existing capital programme, with the majority of these to be completed by 2021. More than 100 projects arising from the CFRAM plans will be initiated over the coming years with the intention of completing the majority of the projects over the lifetime of the new capital plan.

If the Deputy asks one supplementary question, we will be able to fit in another question.

That is fine. On the future capital plan, does the Minister of State have a list of projects and their costing which will feed into any deliberations about how much will be needed in future? I know that the projects which are being undertaken come under this capital programme.

There are 130 projects coming from CFRAM, of which 47 prioritise that. I need €1 billion to cover all flood sites.

I call Deputy Brendan Smith. If he is quick we may get to Deputy John Curran's question.

Questions Nos. 20 to 29, inclusive, replied to with Written Answers.

Flood Prevention Measures

Brendan Smith

Question:

30. Deputy Brendan Smith asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the measures that will be undertaken by the Office of Public Works in 2018 to alleviate flooding caused by the River Erne in County Cavan due to the damage caused by such flooding over recent years; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2130/18]

The River Erne, which rises in County Cavan and flows from County Fermanagh into County Donegal, causes major flooding in Cavan. One problem relating to drainage comes from a channel between upper and lower Lough Erne in County Fermanagh. I urge the Minister of State to maintain ongoing contact with the authorities in Northern Ireland to bring forward a scheme which will benefit the citizens of both County Fermanagh and County Cavan.

The Erne catchment is being assessed under the Office of Public Works and co-operation with the river section in the Department for Infrastructure in Northern Ireland. This co-operation is part of the joint implementation of the EU flood directive, and therefore the Erne catchment in both Ireland and Northern Ireland is fully assessed as part of the CFRAM study.

On the Erne catchment, CFRAM preliminary flood risk assessment undertaken in 2011 identified Cavan town and Ballyconnell in County Cavan and Ballybay in County Monaghan as areas for further assessment, and these are being assessed as part of the North Western-Neagh Bann CFRAM study. This includes public consultation on the draft flood maps, which was held in spring 2015, on the options in the spring of 2016, and on the draft plans in autumn 2016. The structural options for Cavan town and Ballybay are proposed in a draft flood risk management plan, and Ballyconnell has been assessed as having a very low risk of flooding. The plans set out the other measures to address the flood risk in the River Erne catchment. The final plans are undergoing independent review of strategy level environmental assessment by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. Once the review has been carried, we will publish it in the coming weeks.

Questions Nos. 31 and 32 replied to with Written Answers.

Pension Provisions

John Curran

Question:

33. Deputy John Curran asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the progress made in addressing the issue of pensions for community employment supervisors; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2118/18]

I know time is short so I will be very direct. The issue of pension rights for community employment supervisors has been raised in the House, and time and again we are told that the high level forum in the Minister's Department is dealing with the issue. Will the Minister advise us and update us on any progress that has been made recently.

The high level forum met before Christmas. My officials who were participating in it shared the scoping exercise which was undertaken with the union representatives. It outlines how many people work in the sector, the different costs involved and some of the difficulties. I understand that the unions are considering the matter and that the high level forum will meet again.

The high level forum has been a prolonged issue which precedes the Minister's appointment to the Department. Is he in a position to give the House any indication of the anticipated timelines to deal with the matter?

The forum will meet again to engage with unions on the matter.

The Deputy is right to say that this matter has been around for quite a while. One of the reasons for that is that it cuts to the heart of a principle regarding who the State does and does not employ. This is a matter that Fianna Fáil grappled with when it was in government many years ago when the resources available to the State were greater. We will be meeting the unions again to get their response to the project and to the scoping report that we have shared with them. I have been trying to catch up on my notes to get to the question that the Deputy put to me. The meetings to which I am referring took place on 23 November 2017 and on Friday, 15 December.

For the information of House, we covered the questions of those Members who were in the Chamber.

Written Answers are published on the Oireachtas website.
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