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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 19 Apr 2018

Vol. 257 No. 6

Commencement Matters

School Closures

I thank the Minister of State for taking this debate. The issue is about St. Thomas's special school in Clonshaugh. It is a small school, with a small enrolment, and a school that nobody really believes has a future, although that is not the issue at question here. It is a school where, through circumstance, all the pupils enrolled are Traveller boys. A decision was reached recently and communicated to the patron of the school that it is to close with immediate effect in June, not to be phased out over a number of years.

I do not believe in segregated education and do not think many people do. I do not believe boys should be separated from girls. I do not believe children of different religions should be separated from each other in schools. I do not believe children from families with financial advantage should be separated from children from families without that financial advantage and I certainly do not believe that Travellers should be educated separately from other children. However, there is a way of changing that.

If this school is to close, and the principal, the staff and the school community appreciate the need for that to happen, then it should be done in a compassionate manner. There is a handful of young men in the senior cycle of the school, or approaching the senior cycle, who would be severely affected by this closure. I do not know if the Minister of State can remember when he was 16 but I remember when I was 16. If we had been told we had to leave the school we were in to go to another school, it would have been pretty difficult for us to do that, and we are not members of a much-discriminated against minority. We are also not members of a minority that has a tradition of having difficulty in progressing in mainstream, formal education.

The issue here is that there are a number of young men who do not really see themselves staying in education if this rug is pulled from under them. The issue in St. Thomas's is not that the school should not close; I think everybody believes it should close. The issue is that it should be done with compassion and understanding for the young men who it will affect most profoundly, namely, the young men in fifth year and in third year. I could understand if the school was told not to take any more students in September. I could also understand if the Department said it would do this over the course of a year or two years, particularly for those young men who will face the leaving certificate next year. Despite the best will in the world, what will happen as a result of this situation is that young men who were going to do their leaving certificate in a year or two years will now not do it. Understanding that the school has to close, what I need to know from the Minister of State is that it can be done over two years to allow these young men to continue in their education in St. Thomas's and to allow a calm and compassionate transition for other students to other educational facilities.

We are not asking for the world. We are not asking to reverse the decision. We are just asking that the decision be phased, rather than immediate. For a school to be told in April that it is to close in June is, I would contest, very unusual. I do not think a school of a different character would get a message in April that it is closing in June for good. That is the message from the school community. These are vulnerable young people in mainstream education and they are doing their best. I would ask that the Department would give them that small bit of leeway, not to close the doors of the school overnight, but to do it over a more prolonged period.

I am taking this debate on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Bruton. I wish to apologise on his behalf that he cannot be present due to a prior commitment to visit two schools with An Taoiseach. I will make sure to convey to him the matters raised in this debate. He is very familiar with this situation but I understand the importance of raising it today and he understands that too. He just could not make it and I think Senator Ó Ríordáin understands that.

Education provision on an inclusive basis is a fundamental principle of our education and training system. Ensuring every child is supported and given the opportunity to reach his or her full potential is a key priority for this Government and the Department of Education and Skills is committed to improving educational outcomes for members of the Traveller and Roma communities. As Senator Ó Ríordáin will be aware, St. Thomas’s is a school with special school designation dating from a period when separate education provision for members of the Traveller community was the norm. The phasing out of segregated education provision for Traveller children began in 2006 in accordance with Government policy which was developed in consultation with Traveller representative groups. Senator Ó Ríordáin acknowledged that was the right decision to make.

St. Thomas’s is currently the only remaining education centre in the country catering for Traveller boys. Segregating Traveller children from mainstream children is not positive for Traveller children, the Traveller community or for society. The agreed process for the phasing out of Traveller only provision was that new enrolments to such provision would cease in September 2008 and closure would be achieved when the current pupil cohort had left the school in question. This did not happen in the case of St. Thomas’s and I accept what the Senator said that this debate is about phasing it out. That process started and was agreed back in 2008.

Officials of the Department of Education and Skills have been engaging with the patron of the school for many years to progress the transfer of its student cohort to the mainstream school system in line with agreed national policy.

It is important to note that, as with all schools under private patronage, the decision relating to school closure, amalgamation etc. rests with the patron. As a result of the most recent engagement during the current school year, the Department has come to the view that the arrangements for and delivery of education provision at the school are no longer appropriate to meet the educational needs of the current student cohort. This view has been communicated to the patron of the school together with a proposal that relevant supports for the current enrolment would transfer to the mainstream school system.

In order to ensure a smooth and effective transition of provision for students, officials of the Department are engaging with the school patron and the educational welfare services of Tusla with regard to future education provision for the current student cohort in St. Thomas's school. Tusla's educational welfare services are available to work with parents to source school places for the current pupil cohort, including three students at leaving certificate level who would be due to sit exams in 2019. The Department of Education and Skills will continue to engage with both the patron and the educational welfare services of Tusla regarding arrangements for the future education provision for the pupil cohort.

The Senator may wish to note that current overall policy on Traveller education is being progressed within the framework of National Traveller and Roma Inclusion Strategy 2017-2021. The strategy has a particular emphasis on improving Traveller engagement with education and the Department of Education and Skills is currently working with relevant Departments and agencies and Traveller representative groups to implement relevant actions aimed at improving education outcomes for all Travellers, including the current student cohort of St Thomas's school. I hope this brings some clarity to the matter. Maybe the Senator might take it on board.

I listened to the Minister of State's reply. I appreciate that the intention of the Department is to promote integration. I believe in that and look forward to the day when we have more Travellers in the teaching profession and as role models in the educational sphere. My fear is that in years to come, there will be three, four, five or six young men who will point to the closure of the school as the reason they do not have a leaving certificate. Tusla and the Department will do their best to help these students transition to another mainstream setting but my fear is that for the want of a bit of leeway - a year or two - in allowing the students to stay in their current setting, the educational system could lose them completely. I again ask the Minister of State to pass on my concerns to the Minister and the Department about these young men, the danger presented by the immediate closure of the school and the message that sends to them. Nobody is arguing - I certainly do not - that Traveller-only schools or educational settings are the way to go. They are not. They are not healthy or progressive but I suggest that phasing in this closure is in the best interests of those young men, which must surely be our collective goal.

Again, I understand the issue raised by the Senator, namely, phasing and dealing with it appropriately but I must point out that the phasing arrangement began in 2008, which is nearly ten years ago. It was agreed national policy. A lot of time has been given to this school. Part of the difficulty was that in 2015, St. Thomas's school expanded its provision to cater for leaving certificate students without prior notification to, consultation with or approval of the Department. As the school made a formal request to the Department in April 2017 for additional teaching resources to support this unapproved provision, there is a bit of history here. All involved with the Department and the agencies have been trying to manage this to ensure the best educational outcome for the students in recognition of national policy, which has been phased in over nearly a ten-year period. A decision was made 12 years ago so a lot of time has been given here. A decision was made that it might not be the best outcome for the three students to continue in the leaving certificate year and do their examinations in 2019 in that school setting. That has been communicated and there is ongoing discussion but there has been a genuine effort by the Department, together with Tusla and all the services, to make sure the best outcomes for those students are achieved and to make sure they are given appropriate provision. The Senator needs to look at what has happened over the past year when he talks about phasing. I think he is being a little unfair to suggest there has been no proper phasing or that it has not been approached sensitively. I think it has been approached sensitively and it is now a matter of making the final decision that is best for the students. The Department will do this in conjunction with all the local services.

Schools Building Projects Status

I thank the Cathaoirleach for accepting this matter and the Minister of State is welcome. I wish to raise the matter of Ballintemple national school, better known as Crab Lane, and a new school building project. This is a co-educational school with a current enrolment of around 215 children, eight mainstream class teachers, four learning support resource teachers and a very active and positive principal. The school is on a split site with the main school located on Crab Lane while the infant classes are located on Boreenmanna Road. Thankfully, the project has been part of the Department's new school building programme since March 2017. In September 2017, the board of management agreed a schedule of accommodation with the Department and the project has been progressed to the architectural planning section in the Department but therein lies the road block. It has become a source of frustration, concern and annoyance, which have been expressed to me by many parents who I have met and who are looking forward to the project but want to see delivery. The reason I am raising the issue this morning is because this is a very good school in an emerging area with a split campus that needs to see the project progress quickly so that we can go from planning stage to delivery in terms of construction. I recognise that the Government has invested significantly in education in Cork in terms of capital expenditure but in this case, there is a need to give further hope to the pupils, teachers and parents. I thank the Minister of State for being here this morning.

I am taking this debate on behalf of the Minister for Education and Skills who is unable to take the debate and sends his apologies. He had a prior commitment to visit two schools with the Taoiseach. He would like to be here to discuss the matter with the Senator because he knows it is very important for the Cork area and the area represented by the Senator. Again, I thank the Senator for raising this matter as it provides an opportunity to clarify the Department's position regarding the provision of a major building project for Ballintemple national school, County Cork.

The Senator will be aware that Ballintemple national school is a co-educational, Catholic ethos primary school catering for boys and girls from junior infants to sixth class. Ballintemple national school has a current enrolment of 222 pupils with a 4% growth in pupil numbers in the period from 2013 to 2017. The school has a current staffing complement of a principal, eight mainstream class teachers and four special education teaching posts. This staffing level will remain unchanged for the next school year.

The Senator will be aware of the demographic challenge facing the education system in the coming years, including in the Cork area, because it is an issue he has raised quite often in both Houses. In that regard, the construction programme aims to prioritise new building projects and major extensions, including special schools, in areas where demographic need has been established. In light of the anticipated growth in the area concerned, it has been agreed with the school that it would develop from an eight-classroom to a 12-classroom school on a new patron-owned site at Boreenmanna Road in Cork.

In addition, the Department of Education and Skills has been in contact with the National Council for Special Education in respect of special education requirements in the Cork area. In that regard, agreement was reached with the school that provision will be made in the project brief for an autism spectrum disorder, ASD, class. Hopefully, that will be good news. The project brief for Ballintemple national school is, therefore, being finalised to provide for a new 12-classroom primary school with a one-class ASD unit. This process is nearing completion with a view to allowing the project to progress to architectural planning stages, including the appointment of a design team. This is expected to be completed in the near future. I am advised Department officials will be in further contact with the school to advise on the position once it enters the next phase. On behalf of the Minister, Deputy Bruton, I thank the Senator for raising this matter and can confirm the Department's commitment to progressing the building project in the case of Ballintemple national school.

I thank the Minister of State for his response. I also thank the Minister. It is encouraging news. I hope we can put timelines in place in terms of the development and delivery of the project but it is a good news story and again is a further recognition that the Government is investing in young people in Cork, particularly those in Ballintemple national school in the Crab Lane and Boreenmanna Road area, which is an emerging population base.

It is a very heavily populated area.

The Minister is very anxious that this would progress through the phases as quickly as possible. It is on the list and will be done. All involved in the Department would like to see it progress and will work with the local school to do that. Again, I thank Senator Buttimer for raising this issue on behalf of his constituents.

Commemorative Events

I welcome the Minister of State to the House and thank him for taking this matter.

Last night, I attended an event in O'Connell House to celebrate the creation of the State as a republic on 18 April 1949. The event in question highlights the need to mark momentous changes that have occurred in Ireland. A significant number of centenaries are due to be celebrated in the coming years. Those centenaries relate to the period 1918 to 1924, when major changes occurred in this country whereby we went from being ruled from London to Independence and the creation of the Free State. However, there were also other significant historical events that occurred here during the period. My request this morning is to know the plans being put in place to celebrate those events.

The period in question was difficult for people living in certain areas and it is important that we deal with any celebrations in a sensitive way. It is in that context that I am seeking to discover the plans being put in place in order that these important historical events will be marked in such a way and that there will be recognition for those who brought about the changes that occurred in this country at the time. As an independent country, Ireland enjoys significant international recognition and has made a major contribution on the global front. It is in that light that I am seeking clarification regarding the plans that are being put in place.

I thank Senator Colm Burke for raising this important issue in such a sensitive manner. His approach certainly reflects the type of sensitive approach that the Minister, Deputy Madigan, and her Department would take. The Minister is sorry she could not be here. This is an issue in respect of which she would like to engage with the Senator and this House. However, she cannot be present due to prior commitments.

As the person with responsibility for leading the Government's decade of centenaries programme, the Minister's priority is to ensure that the complex historical events that took place, starting in 1918, on the road to the foundation of the State are remembered in an inclusive, appropriate, respectful and sensitive manner. As the Senator stated, this has to be approached in a sensitive manner. In the context of all the events held to date, that is what the Department has been trying to do under the guidance of and in co-operation with the Minister.

The Government will continue to be supported in its approach by the guidance of the expert advisory group on commemorations, chaired by the former Senator, Dr. Maurice Manning, and by the all-party consultation committee on commemorations, once established. In October of last year, the advisory group published its second statement of principles. This statement sets out a powerful structure of guiding principles which will support the State and other interested parties involved in delivering authentic, citizen focused and appropriate commemorations at national and local level during the second half of the decade of centenaries and which will respect all the sensitivities around that.

This year, the State centenary programme focuses on four broad thematic strands: the ending of the First World War; the enactment of the Representation of the People Act 1918, the Parliament (Qualification of Women) Act 1918 and the significant role of women in the events of that year; the rise of radical Irish nationalism and the consolidation of Ulster unionism; and the death of John Redmond and the decline and legacy of the Irish Parliamentary Party.

The First World War was a defining event of the early 20th century and a catalyst for immense change in the political, economic, social and cultural life of communities across Ireland 100 years ago. The decade of centenaries has provided a new momentum in remembering and exploring the complicated narratives surrounding Ireland’s participation in the First World War. For years, the experiences of the many Irish-born men and women who served and died were largely hidden and ignored and yet they had a profound impact on the island of Ireland and would, almost certainly, have affected every community in the country. This year, the Government will mark the signing of the Armistice that brought four years of fighting in the First World War to an end with a special ceremony to commemorate all of the Irish-born casualties of the First World War. Last week, the Minister announced that a ceremony will take place in Dún Laoghaire on 10 October in remembrance of all of those who perished following the sinking of the RMS Leinster. This will be an inclusive, respectful and fitting commemoration and she would like to thank Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council, the family members of those affected by this tragedy and the many other stakeholders who are working with her Department.

On 6 February, the Minister launched the State centenary programme to mark the introduction of voting rights for women - a significant milestone on a long and difficult journey towards franchising men and women equally and a first step towards realising the full inclusion of Irish women in public life. An exciting and innovative pop-up women's museum, curated by the historian, Ms Sinéad McCoole, and commemorating women in politics and political life from 1918 to 2018, will be showcased in the Coach House in Dublin Castle from November of this year until January 2019. It will then travel to venues around the country.

In March, the State commemorated the centenary of the death of John Redmond and paid tribute to his contribution, which spanned a parliamentary career of over 37 years, to the emerging Irish State. This programme comprised a rich and diverse range of ceremonial, cultural, historical and educational activities in Dublin, Wexford, Waterford and Athlone. One of the highlights was a special symposium which took place in the National Gallery on 6 March and which involved a partnership between the NUI, RIA, the school of history at UCD and the Department. A ceremony also took place in Wexford on 15 April, attended by the President of Ireland, to commemorate the death of John Redmond. This event, which was supported by the Department of Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, was postponed from 4 March due to the adverse weather conditions at that time.

Politically, 1918 was a year of profound transformation. The anti-conscription campaign of 1918 and the associated general strike were significant milestones in this movement, which culminated in Sinn Féin's landslide victory in the general election of 14 December 1918 in the South and the consolidation of the unionist vote in the North. On 22 April, a special concert will take place in Liberty Hall, hosted by SIPTU and supported by the Department, to mark the centenary of the 1918 general strike.

Early next year, the State will mark the centenary of the convening of the First Dáil in the Mansion House on 21 January 1919. The Minister welcomes also the programme of events the Houses of the Oireachtas are developing to mark this momentous occasion.

The Department of Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht will continue to positively engage with, and to support, the local authorities, national cultural institutions, academic institutions, the artistic community and other stakeholders to deliver appropriate commemorative initiatives under each of these thematic strands.

The Minister would like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the critical importance of local authorities in supporting an inclusive approach to commemorations that is sensitive to the local historical context and experience. She believes that a collaborative approach to the remembrance of this complex period in our history between the State, local authority network and local organisations and commemorative committees is very important. The Minister was pleased to approve a funding allocation of €5,000 in 2018 for each local authority. This funding will support local authorities in developing initiatives to encourage people to explore the political, historical, social and cultural context of 1918 and the significant aspects of life in Ireland that were shaped by and also directed Ireland's participation in the First World War.

The Minister's predecessor, current Minister for Business, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Heather Humphreys, launched a public consultation process in October of last year, with the objective of stimulating a public conversation and a rich diversity of perspectives and ideas around how the significant historical events between 1918 and 1923 might be appropriately remembered. The response his been extremely encouraging, with 72 submissions, 20 of which were made by local authorities, received. These submissions have been helpful to the expert advisory group on commemorations as the group considers the advice that it will provide to Government. The guidance of the advisory group will inform the State's approach to the remembrance of the seminal moments on our journey towards self-determination and independence from 2019 to 2023.

I hope that gives Senator Colm Burke an update on proceedings and thank him for raising this issue with us here today.

I thank the Minister of State for the detailed reply. I very much appreciate it.

There were one or two issues that occurred to me. First, I have noticed that there have been short lead-in times in respect of certain events held in the past six months. I wonder whether it would be possible to publish a calendar over the next 12 to 24 months so that people would have up to six months' notice of events as opposed to hearing about them three or four weeks in advance. I am not blaming the Department or the Minister. It is merely the way things happen. The Department gives plenty of notice but it needs to be more proactive as regards highlighting what is coming up. The second issue relates to providing some programme with schools, particularly in view of the significant change in Irish history in the period 1918 to 1924. It is important that we involve schools as well.

On a third point, I tabled this motion because I was approached by a community group. A number of significant events happened in the group's area between 1918 and 1924 and it wanted to know what it can do to mark them. The Minister of State outlined that there is €5,000 allocated to each local authority. This is about involving communities.

The Minister might consider developing a community scheme for individual communities that have an interest in this area.

I referred to an area in which there was a tragic loss of life but the community celebrated the event in a very sensitive way about two years ago. It was the best of all of the commemorations I attended and it was organised by a local community rather than a State agency or local authority. That is not a criticism of State agencies but a significant effort was made by this community and it is important that their effort is given recognition as well.

I thank Senator Colm Burke for raising this matter and giving us the opportunity to discuss it. The Senator has put forward some good ideas and the departmental officials will explore the possibilities and engage with the Minister on this, as well as with the advisory group. I suggest that the various groups to which he referred should engage with the relevant local authority and feed in their ideas to the system. The Minister wants to ensure the process is as inclusive as possible. The Department has put in the effort in local communities, local authorities and other bodies to engage with the people and get them involved. Naturally, we want to maximise the number of people who will be involved in the planning process and will participate in the events themselves.

The Minister and the Department are making a great effort to set out the events that will take place in the years ahead. The best way to keep up to speed on all the information is to access the specific website that is dedicated to the decade of centenaries, www.decadeofcentenaries.com. The Senator might pass it on to people as well because that is the best place to get the information and keep up to speed on the planned events in the years ahead. The Minister is very keen to involve the communities, schools and others as much as possible. The Department has been working very hard on events with some great success to date and will build on this success. I would appreciate it were Members to let groups know that they should be able to link in with the local authorities and libraries as well.

I thank the Minister of State and Senator Colm Burke.

Long-Term Illness Scheme

I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Catherine Byrne, to the House.

I appreciate that the issue I raised has been chosen as a Commencement matter.

A number of people who are suffering from rheumatoid arthritis and are taking heavy medication to deal with the pain find that their condition is not included in the long-term illness book. I wish to ascertain whether rheumatoid arthritis can be included in the long-term illness book. I also am calling for an overall review of the long-term illness book, which resulted from section 59 of the Health Act 1970. While the legislation has been slightly amended since, there has not been a great deal of change in terms of the different illnesses that have been included in it. A number of people have had to pay out a great deal of money for the prescriptions to deal with their conditions, which in some cases are long-term illnesses. It is not the case that the person will recover. A prescription from one's general practitioner, GP, to deal with the condition is not covered by the long-term illness scheme but in certain circumstances, a case can be made for a hospital prescription to be filled for a short period. It is time for a review of the long-term illness scheme. A number of illnesses and conditions should be examined in a review. I look forward to the Minister of State's response.

The Minister for Health, Deputy Harris is in the Dáil taking questions on health. The Minister apologises to the Senator for his absence but I will deal with the issue on his behalf.

I thank Senator Byrne for raising this matter in the Seanad. The long-term illness, LTI, scheme was established under section 59(3) of the Health Act 1970, as amended. The conditions covered under the LTI scheme were prescribed in subsequent regulations and are listed as follows: acute leukaemia; mental handicap; cerebral palsy; mental illness in a person aged under 16 years; cystic fibrosis; multiple sclerosis; diabetes insipidus; diabetes mellitus; muscular dystrophies; parkinsonism; epilepsy; phenylketonuria; haemophilia; spina bifida hydrocephalus; and conditions arising from the use of Thalidomide drug.

Under the LTI scheme, patients receive free of charge, drugs, medicines and medical and surgical appliances which are used directly for the treatment of their illness. While the Minister appreciates that rheumatoid arthritis is a life-long condition, there are no plans to extend the list of conditions covered by this scheme. For people who are ineligible for the long-term illness scheme, there are other arrangements that cover excessive medical costs. I refer to the General Medical Services, GMS, scheme, the medical card, the GP visit card and the drugs payment scheme. People who cannot, without undue hardship, arrange for the provision of medical services for themselves and their dependants may be entitled to a medical card. In the assessment process, the HSE can then take into account medical costs incurred by an individual or families. The scheme is independent of the LTI scheme. People who are not eligible for the medical card may still be able to avail of a GP visit card, which covers the cost of the GP consultation. The scheme is available to all those aged under six years or over 70 years. However, access is based on income. The income threshold is higher than for the medical card and various costs may be taken into account in determining the eligibility for this service. Someone who has neither a medical card nor a GP visit card can use the drugs payment scheme, DPS, which limits the expenditure on prescription items. Under the DPS, no individual or family pays more than €134 a month towards the cost of approved prescription items. This threshold was reduced from €144 at the start of 2018. The DPS significantly reduces the cost for families and individuals with ongoing medical needs. The Government is committed in the programme for a partnership Government to reduce the cost of medicines for all citizens. It has already been addressed through a range of measures, including significant price reductions and greater use of reference pricing and generic substitutions. The further reduction in the DPS threshold and in the prescription charges for medical card holders will be considered in the context of the health commitments in the programme for Government and having regard to the funding available.

Senator Byrne might wish to ask a supplementary question.

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Catherine Byrne. While I appreciate that the Government is committed to reducing the costs for people, especially those with long-term illness, I certainly would appreciate the Minister of State's bringing to the attention of the Minister, Deputy Harris, that there are a number of illnesses where people are on medication in the long term and perhaps a review be carried out of the LTI book. It is quite a number of years since there was a review of the ailments that are covered under the LTI scheme. It certainly is something that I meet ever more frequently. Not every illness can be included and we cannot wrap our arms around everything but certainly there are a number of ailments that should be considered for inclusion in the long-term illness book. It would be great if the Department could conduct a review of the LTI scheme.

I cannot give such a commitment. The Minister will have to decide whether there will be a review or not.

I come across this issue quite a lot as a public representative. I am aware of it from members of my own family who have rheumatoid arthritis, which affects people as they get older and can lead to very disturbing inability to be able to move around. I will convey the Senator's views to the Minister on the number of life-long illnesses that are not included in the LTI book. A review may be overdue and perhaps as part of the budgetary process we may be able to bring it to the Minister and see whether we can seek some revision and review of the long-term illness card.

I agree with the Senator that people are affected by a number of conditions that are life-long illnesses but do not come within the terms of the LTI scheme. I will bring this to the attention of the Minister for Health.

I thank the Minister of State.

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