Could I ask the Minister in regard to the definition of the Civil Service, does that definition cover what are generally known as semi-State bodies as well as what is generally known as the Civil Service?
Civil Service (Employment of Married Women) Bill, 1973: Committee and Final Stages.
Question proposed: "That section 1 stand part of the Bill."
In fact there is no statutory bar on the employment of married women in semi-State bodies or State-sponsored bodies. Several of them do employ married women. This is the Civil Service as we know it. In other words, people directly paid by the State.
Perhaps the Minister would clarify a little further what is meant by the Civil Service of the Government as opposed to the Civil Service of the State.
I was waiting for that.
I thought it was the Deputy's Bill.
Deputies opposite have got to learn that the Opposition have a duty to put on record for the benefit of citizens things which may be known to themselves.
When I was in Opposition I never liked to hear a Minister say that something was simply a repeat of what was in previous Acts but that happens to be the position here. In previous legislation this form has been used. Some aspects of this marriage bar come down from Victorian days. I am not quite certain and I would not pretend to know, but I will investigate what is the difference between the Civil Service of the Government and the Civil Service of the State.
I appreciate the Minister's honesty but I am a little perturbed because I recall that exactly this phrase was used in the recent legislation which we passed in relation to the establishment of the Public Services Department. On that occasion I must have misunderstood the Minister in his Second Reading speech because I thought he was distinguishing between the two. Reference was made in that legislation to both the Civil Service of the Government and the Civil Service of the State.
I will have it investigated and I will convey the information to the Deputy.
I will await with bated breath.
Question put and agreed to.
SECTION 2.
Question proposed: "That section 2 stand part of the Bill."
Perhaps the Minister would like to elaborate a little on that.
Subsections (1) and (2) of section 16 of the Civil Service Commissioners Act, 1956, provide as follows:
(1) Where it is proposed to hold a competition for appointment to one or more positions, the Commissioners shall make regulations which shall include provision in relation to the following matters—
(a) the type or types of test of which the competition shall consist...
(2) The Commissioners may, in making regulations under subsection (1) of this section in relation to a competition, provide, in addition to the matters specified in the said subsection (1), for all or any of the following matters—
(a) the confining of the competition to citizens of Ireland,
(b) the confining of the competition to a specified class of persons defined in such manner and by reference to such things (including service in the Civil Service, sex and physical characteristics) as the Commissioners think proper,
(c) the requirements that, where females are not excluded from the competition, a female candidate to be eligible for selection shall be unmarried or a widow,
(d) the age limits for candidates...
The provision at subsection (2) (c), which is being repealed, is permissive. In practice, however, the restriction has been applied with the result that married women have been excluded from Civil Service Commission competitions. Even where appointments are made otherwise than through the Civil Service Commission, for example, the appointment of temporary staff under exclusion order, the same type of restriction has, with a few exceptions applied. The most notable exceptions are the employment of married women as cleaners and the arrangements whereby married women who were civil servants before marriage but who are no longer supported by their husbands have been re-employed in an unestablished capacity, under exclusion order.
As regards the reference in subsection (2) (b) of section 16 to the restriction of candidature by reference to "sex", this is being retained although it is inevitable that, following the publication of the reports of the Commission on the Status of Women, a review will have to be made of the extent to which grades at present reserved for men or women should be thrown open for general competition. The commission have recommended that:
The Government should, in relation to employment under its control, ensure that job openings are not advertised in a manner which expressly or implicitly limits them to male or female applicants, except where sex is a bona fide occupational qualification or where women are not permitted by law to be employed.
With the repeal, through subsection (1), of section 16 (2) (c) of the Civil Service Commissioners Act, 1956, the authority of the commissioners to exclude married women from competitions will have been withdrawn. For practical reasons, however, it is necessary to ensure that competitions which have got under way, are still in progress and which were advertised on the basis that married women are not eligible will generally continue on that basis. This is provided for in subsection (2).
It is being provided, however, in subsection (3), in respect of these competitions that a candidate who was eligible on the closing date for the receipt of applications by reason of her being unmarried or a widow but who has subsequently married will not be excluded for selection because of her marriage.
Competitions which have not got under way on the effective date, namely, those whose closing dates for the receipt of applications have not passed, will be readvertised without the marriage bar.
Subsection (4) enables the commissioners to resolve disputes as to whether or not selection from a competition has been completed.
I thank the Minister for that explanation. This would appear to be the section which is remedying the situation in which married women were not re-employable in the Civil Service in the circumstances of hardship to which we referred earlier except, as indicated by the Minister, in an unestablished capacity. As I indicated earlier this practice is of very recent origin. It is only within a relatively few years that even unestablished positions were made available in circumstances of hardship. No doubt the Minister will receive complaints about section 2 (2) but it is probably the only practicable way to tackle this problem and for that reason I certainly support it. As far as I am concerned section 2 is satisfactory.
Question put and agreed to.
SECTION 3.
Question proposed: "That section 3 stand part of the Bill."
There are one or two questions I should like to ask the Minister. I hope I am in order in asking them but they seem to me to arise on section 6. Could the Minister indicate what the proposals are to deal with the existing marriage gratuity which is payable to a woman who retires from the Civil Service on marriage? I assume that since she does not have to retire, there is no marriage gratuity, but is there any difference as a result in the contributions for superannuation or does she continue in precisely the same way as if there were no question of marriage at all? I also wonder if the Minister could tell me if any special arrangements have been made or envisaged in regard to married women in the Civil Service who become pregnant. What special arrangements are being made in regard to leave for such women? I am speaking about annual leave?
First of all, in relation to the query about the marriage gratuity we propose that it will be paid to existing civil servants who were recruited in the expectation that it would be available to them on retirement to marry in the event of Cupid's arrow entering their bosoms, but in relation to future entrants the marriage gratuity will not apply. Civil servants do not make a contribution towards the marriage gratuity. This is something which was inherited from Victorian days. As the marriage bar is being removed, there is no justification for payment of the gratuity, which was by way of compensation for an injustice. As the injustice is gone there is no justification for keeping the marriage gratuity for people who would now enter the Civil Service. On the other point raised by Deputy Colley in relation to pregnancy, the Deputy and the House may be assured there will be no difficulties created in relation to necessary absences arising out of that fortunate physical circumstance.
I do not mean to be in any way derogatory when I talk about what the Minister said last, but he seems to suggest that definite arrangements have not been made to cover the situation in regard to pregnancy. Maybe I have got the wrong impression but if I have not I would urge the Minister to ensure it is not simply left to what one would hope would be the commonsense of the people concerned. It will be necessary, I think, to lay down at least entitlement under the regulations to specified periods of leave in the event of pregnancy and there may be some consequential changes necessary. This is an important aspect which arises directly out of what we are doing in the Bill and it must not be left to chance.
In regard to the marriage gratuity, the Minister said women who entered the Civil Service in the expectation of being entitled to a marriage gratuity will continue to be entitled to it even though they will continue to be in the Civil Service. Does that mean that such people will be entitled to a marriage gratuity and will also be entitled to qualify for superannuation in precisely the same way as women who do not marry, or in the same way as men. If that is so, on the face of it it would appear to be creating discrimination in favour of married women as against single women or men. I know one cannot find the absolute answer but it appears on the face of it that it is a form of discrimination against single women and men.
Of course, the marriage gratuity will only be paid where a girl retires from the Civil Service on marriage. If she elects to stay on she will not receive it.
That is the point I wanted to make clear. In other words, if a girl marries and stays on she gets no marriage gratuity even though at the time she entered she expected to get one. Does her position then continue precisely the same as somebody who does not marry? Is her position in relation to superannuation exactly the same?
Yes.
Question put and agreed to.
Sections 4 to 6, inclusive, agreed to.
Title agreed to.
Bill reported without amendment and received for final consideration.
Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."
I do not wish to detain the House at this late hour but I just wanted to refer to something that was said earlier. The Minister said— he implied anyway—that I as his predecessor could have brought in this Bill but did not do so. Just for the record, I would ask the Minister to confirm that in the statement. I made in last year's budget I indicated that there were difficulties, including consultations with the staff associations, to which the Minister referred, and that taking all these things into consideration the estimate was it would take until about this time to produce this Bill. In fact, when the Minister came into office he found that this Bill was well on the way to its final preparation. I do not wish to take from the Minister the credit for having brought the Bill in—all credit to him-but do not let him try to suggest that nothing was done when it could have been done. That would not be true.
I am prepared to acknowledge that there was plenty of talk before the change of the Government, but this is the act which is doing what other people were promising to do.
Cock Robin.
The Bill will be the Magna Carta for married women in Ireland. I think it is a worthwhile step in the right direction. As this step has been taken, it is proper to give reassurance to the wonderful women who work in our Civil Service. I do not believe this will operate to their disadvantage, whether married or unmarried. I believe it will remove a great deal of the uncertainty, the ill-will and worry which have plagued women in the public service in the past. In case there is any doubt about it, I should like to say that once a married woman leaves the Civil Service she will not have an automatic right of re-entry. She will have to take her chance with all other applicants through the ordinary machinery of the Civil Service Commissioners. This is the only proper course, it is the only way in which we can ensure that the opportunities for all womenfolk will be as equal as it is humanly possible to make it. As we do away with this disadvantage of married women, we do not want to do any injustice to those who are not married.
Question put and agreed to.