Deputies Maureen Quill, Jim O'Keeffe and Joe Sherlock gave me notice of their intention to raise on the Adjournment the floods affecting Cork city and county. I suggest that they share the time equally, say seven minutes each. Is that satisfactory?
Adjournment Debate. - County Cork Flooding.
That was not my information. I attempted to raise this issue twice yesterday, by way of Private Notice Question and on the Adjournment, and this morning I sought permission to raise it on the Adjournment tonight. My clear information from the Ceann Comhairle's office was that I had permission to raise the matter on the Adjournment, something I appreciated, and that I would be given 20 minutes in which to make my contribution. Nobody from that office intimated to me that I would be sharing that time. However, Deputy Sherlock telephoned me and asked if I would share time with him. Out of the goodness of my heart I told him I would give him three minutes of my time and he was pleased with that arrangement.
It is true that Deputy Quill raised the matter with me in the first instance but subsequently other Deputies raised the matter with me within the prescribed time. I am merely suggesting that Deputy Quill might share the time with them but it is a matter for her.
A moment ago Deputy O'Keeffe asked me if I would give him some time and I agreed to do so. We have reached an agreement among ourselves.
I agree with what Deputy Quill has said. She was kind enough to give me some of her time.
Deputy Quill has agreed to give me some of her time but my worry is that we are using that valuable time now.
The Chair is suggesting that the Deputies share the time equally but it is a matter for the Deputies to decide.
Since my first attempt to raise the matter in the House it has been brought to my notice that the Minister for the Environment has agreed to travel to Cork tomorrow to see the nature and scale of the damage done in the Cork region through excessive flooding. I am delighted the Minister has agreed to make the journey. That was the fit and proper thing for a caring Minister for the Environment to do. Damage in the region exceeds £1 million and it is only right and proper that the Minister whose Department is directly involved should visit the region to evaluate the extent of the damage. He will then be in a better position to decide, in conjunction with the local authorities, the remedial work that must be carried out in the short and long term. It is worth noting that when flooding on a smaller scale occured in the Dodder river valley in Dublin two years ago the Taoiseach of the day, Deputy Garret FitzGerald, visited the region and spoke to the stricken families. He instigated remedial action. The precedent for such a visit exists. It is only fit and proper that taxpayers and ratepayers in places like Blackpool in Cork should get similar treatment from a Minister or a Prime Minister as taxpayers and ratepayers received in Dublin.
I am concerned about the catchment areas along the rivers Lee and Blackwater. The problems in those areas vary from place to place. What will solve the problems in Mallow town will not address the problems in Cork city, as the Minister will learn when he visits the city tomorrow. However, one thing the areas have in common is that in recent days shopkeepers and residents have had their property damaged and lost goods to the extent of £1 million. I should like to appeal to the Minister to offer to the people of the affected areas short term relief measures that will help to offset the worst excesses of the floods.
I recommend in the case of shopkeepers in Cork city whose stock has been damaged on many occasions over the years that they be given some rates relief as a once-off measure. For householders some type of hardship fund should be established to give them relief. Owing to the persistent nature of the flooding in those areas householders have great difficulty in obtaining any type of insurance cover. They have had to make so many claims that they are finding it impossible to get full cover and in some cases the premiums are too high for them. Many of them do not have insurance cover.
I appeal to the Minister to recognise those facts and offer to the people in the stricken areas relief funding on a shortterm basis. Such a move would be appreciated. However, having given relief to householders and shopkeepers the Minister should go on to consider the position Cork Corporation and Cork County Council find themselves in. Extensive damage has been done to roads and bridges in their areas and they will not be in a position to carry out repair work from existing budgets. An immense amount of work will have to be done to make roads and bridges safe and the Minister should recognise that and make a once-off allocation to those authorities to enable them to carry out essential repairs.
The most important single challenge facing us all is to put together a package of remedial works that will ensure that such flooding will not occur again. Places like Blackpool, the flat of the city, Mallow, Kanturk and Fermoy have been subjected to regular flooding in the past 20 to 25 years but very little drainage or engineering work has been carried out to eliminate some of the causes of the flooding. The time has long passed when those people can tolerate that flooding. The Minister, in co-operation with the engineers from the two local authorities, should identify the source of the problems and prepare a package of measures that will eliminate them.
Having agreed on such a package the Minister should cost it and seek the necessary funding from the Exchequer or the EC. In conjunction with the local managers and engineers he should prepare an action programme of engineering and drainage works to help remedy the causes of these persistent problems. If he does that he will have done a good day's work and he will have given great hope to the people of the areas affected. More than that needs to be done. There are a number of schemes with the Department of the Environment for sanction. If they were sanctioned and costed and the works carried out much of the flooding of recent days would have been averted without a doubt.
I refer specifically to one scheme that has come in from Cork Corporation, that is the Whitechurch-Mallow Road drainage scheme. Coincidentally, almost as if I had anticipated this flooding, I had a parliamentary question down on this scheme to the Minister today. That scheme has been designed and planned by the engineers of Cork Corporation. It has been submitted to the Department for sanction and that sanction is still awaited. If that scheme had been sanctioned and the works carried out under the scheme, a great deal of the flooding that took place in Cork city this week and last week would have been averted. I appeal to the Minister to look at that scheme and not let any trivial demand keep him from getting it off the ground.
When I rang officials of his Department today and also officials of Cork Corporation I was told that the scheme was referred back to Cork Corporation for further information. When I further investigated the information I discovered that the nature of the information sought is trivial and not at all sufficient to interfere with the carrying out of that scheme. There is an old saying that delay is the deadliest form of denial. I appeal to the Minister not to delay any longer but to sanction that scheme, to provide the funds and to enable Cork Corporation to carry out those works. If that was done a whole shoulder of the hill on the north-side of Cork city would be relieved of excessive flooding forever. The need to do that was there 20 years ago and it is there now more urgent than ever. I appeal to the Minister to bite the bullet and to get that work done.
Equally, there are a number of schemes that ought to put in place in the centre of Cork city. I acknowledge quite freely that a good deal of interceptor sewer work has been done in the channels of the river. Much money has been spent providing interceptor sewers to channel the debris and so to help to keep the bed of the river free so that it could take the flood. A good deal of that work has already been done but as of now no effort has been made and no works have been attempted to channel the centre island of Cork city. There is no system of interceptor sewers in that part of the city and it is mainly there that this excessive flooding is happening repeatedly. I say to the Minister now, and I will certainly be saying to the city manager in Cork next week, to have designed as quickly as possible a system of interceptor sewers for the centre island of the city of Cork. If that were done a great deal of flooding would be eliminated and a great deal of damage would be averted.
Níl mórán am fágtha anois, a Cheann Comhairle. I would remind the Deputy——
The Chair sought to rectify that matter earlier but it was not acceded to.
I thought the Deputy would have——
I repeat again that three Deputies raised this matter with me on the Adjournment.
Thank you very much. I am sitting down this instant. I understood there was more than five or six minutes left.
I welcome the decision of the Minister to come to Cork tomorrow. I hope he will visit the Mallow and Fermoy areas in view of the major damage done in recent days by the serious flooding in those areas. I hope he will consider providing the financial assistance for the homes and properties that have been damaged because many of those people have been unable to get insurance. Due to the fact that these areas have been hit on a regular basis by serious flooding the Minister should initiate urgent discussions with the local authorities in the area with a view to finding a solution to the repeated flooding. The question of seeking EC aid should also be considered. Bridge Street in Mallow is flooded by the Blackwater at the Spaw Stream. It is contended that to lower the bed of the Blackwater in the vicinity of Mallow Bridge could be a help. It was recommended in 1979 by the then town engineer that the Spaw Stream should be diverted and that should be considered.
The local authorities are helpless in this whole matter. People's homes and businesses are under a sea of water for 15 to 20 hours and that is a terrible situation. The management and staff of local authorities in the area from which I come must be congratulated on the work they have done for the people who were affected by the flooding. They worked night and day to help those people. That applies to the Mallow and Fermoy areas, especially the Ashe Quay area of Fermoy.
I want to refer to one other matter. It has been made clear from discussions at local level that there is not sufficient council staff to keep gulleys clean. This has contributed in no uncertain manner to the flooding in the Spaw area of Mallow. Flooding makes roads dangerous and impassable. That kind of flooding never occurred previously because council staff worked on the roads and kept the drains open. I thank the Minister for taking an interest in this matter and for deciding to visit the area. I hope he will find a solution to the problem.
I have been allowed a few minutes and I will do the very best I can in that time to deal with this very serious problem. It is very clear that the floods have brought devastating consequences for Cork city and county and indeed other parts of the south-west. The people of Cork are crying out for a positive response from the Government. This is a cry from the heart on behalf of our people. The Government response should be at a number of levels. First, it should be by way of support for the restoration work. The figure of £1 million is, I believe, a conservative one. The second point to be put to the Minister is the question of relief for the individuals who have been seriously affected by these floods.
Perhaps more important is the making of provision for the future. This must involve the preparation of flood relief plans designed to prevent a recurrence, or at least to minimise the consequences of any such recurrence. I am convinced that EC funding will be available to support such plans but there is no possibility of access to such funding without having plans prepared and ready. Now is the time for action and it is up to the Minister, Deputy Flynn, to take real action and to do it now.
First, I would like to thank the Deputies for raising this matter. I would also like to thank some of the Deputies on my own side for bringing these matters to my attention over the past days. If it were not for my involvement in the House today in the Estimates debate and on Questions, for the first time in this session, I would have been in Cork today. That was my original intention but it could not be accommodated. I will take the opportunity to visit Cork tomorrow.
I can sympathise with the Deputies who expressed views on behalf of their constituents. That would be expected of them and they have done so very adequately. At this stage it is not possible to establish the exact nature or the full extent of the damage caused by the recent severe weather in certain counties. The recent flooding has caused serious damage in varying degrees in Cork, Kerry, Clare, Waterford, Monaghan, Cavan and Louth, but it would appear that County Cork was worse affected. County Cork is the most seriously affected area, but it is fair that I should put on record that many other areas have brought this matter to my attention as well.
I had been doing something about the problem even before the matter was raised today. I have asked the local authorities in all the affected areas I have mentioned to prepare reports. The first thing any Minister should do is to find out precisely from the local authorities the extent of the flood damage that has occurred in their areas of responsibility. I have also sought their views with regard to immediate remedial measures which they consider necessary and other works that might usefully be undertaken to prevent a recurrence of flooding in the future. I have already asked for this information in recent days.
In addition, I have asked the local authorities involved to carry out as a matter of urgency an investigation into the extent of the flood damage to homes and buildings in order to quantify the remedial works required and to identify the householders, who through lack of insurance cover or otherwise, may be experiencing hardship. I appreciate Deputy Quill's remark that she thinks I may be a caring Minister in some ways. I am not unmindful of news bulletins outlining events that have caused hardship to people. My response was immediate and even if this matter had not been raised in this House it would still be a matter of concern to me. I have some quite close friends in the Cork area who acquainted me with the matter. Also, my colleagues on this side of the House brought me up to date about the difficulties and I knew that their concern was shared by everybody in this House.
When the reports I have sought come to hand, particularly those about the urgent remedial works I have referred to, I will be in a better position to know what can be done. It will not be possible for me to speak to the stricken families tomorrow. Although one would like to do that, I have a schedule that I have to comply with, as I am sure Deputy O'Keeffe would appreciate. I am cutting out a half day from that schedule to go down to see for myself at first hand what has to be done and to speak with those who are responsible for the reports I have requested and who would know what is the real situation on the ground. I propose to take some of the engineers and some of my expert staff with me and together with some of the local engineers we will take a trip over Fermoy, Mallow, the Blackwater and the Lee Basins to see exactly what the situation is from on high. Then we will go to City Hall to talk with the various people acquainted with the damage.
Do not forget the Bandon River.
In case that cannot be accommodated in the time schedule, that does not mean it has been forgotten and I take it that there will be people there to represent the views of the area. It is more useful to talk with the people about things. I want to see it but——
That is quite acceptable.
——one could see the extent of the damage on television and that is why I took the initial action that I have already taken. I regard it as important that I go to Cork to show that I am interested and concerned. I am here to help.
I am a little concerned about those who have no insurance. I am not going to go into this matter in any great depth this evening except to say that it is a long established practice that the Exchequer cannot meet the losses incurred by businesses across the country as a result of their being uninsured.
They cannot get insurance cover because of previous flooding.
I know that. However, that matter was clarified by the former Leader of your Party, Dr. Garret FitzGerald, during the Bray disaster in 1986. Dr. FitzGerald was quite forthcoming on the matter but unfortunately he had to find himself in the same position where the question of non-insurance caused him a big problem. I do not think the situation has altered dramatically since then.
I have noted what Deputy Quill said about the Whitechurch drainage. I do not know offhand whether it would influence matters to that great an extent.
The Minister will hear about that in City Hall. All of Blackpool is flooded every year because of the need to complete the culverting.
I would be pleased to hear that. I presume I will hear about the spas as well. I do not think that the flooding in County Cork during these past days has been caused by blocked gullies. If I thought it was that easy to get rid of the difficulties, having the gullies cleared, I would be very happy indeed but the tradition of flooding in County Cork and in the south west region is much more serious than that.
The Minister may have misunderstood me. I only raised that as a point.
I accept that the Deputy only raised that as a point, I am sure that all matters will be addressed tomorrow.
The question of EC aid was raised. The EC make some little money available for victims of natural catastrophes but I think the interpretation the EC put on a natural catastrophe does not quite cover what we are talking about. Indeed the amount of money that has been made available over the years for that when spread throughout all the member states would not address this matter.
It would be available for flood relief plans.
We were seeking Regional funding for expensive remedial works that need to be carried out and that should have been carried out 20 years ago.
I understand that point but I am referring to the EC aid that is available for disasters and I do not think it would really apply in this situation.
We are talking about a flooding relief plan.
It would not be worth pursuing EC aid because, first, it is tiny and, secondly, it is to address a different kind of problem.
However, having said all that I am going with an open mind. I will go to Cork and examine the situation. In consultation with the good people who run your affairs in the region, together with your expertise and input, we will discuss the problem. I am not sure what public representatives will be there to talk to me but I know the experts will be there. Indeed, I am not directing what public representatives should be there but I understand there will be representatives from the various councils——
We will be in this House to vote.
——and this will be adequate to deal with the matter.
Could the Minister outline the timeframe for a positive response following consultation and consideration of the report?
I have already sought a response from the councils concerning the extent of the damage and the remedial works they recommend. This is a technical area but I will be asking them to speed up their response.
When will we have a positive response from the Government?
I think the Deputy will have to wait until I see the extent of the damage but if I can help, that is what I would like to do.
Can I take it that we will see a programme of affirmative action?
Those who know me better will know.
Will the Minister report back to this House?
By all means.
We will be putting down questions to the Minister.
I should imagine the Deputy will.
The Dáil adjourned at 11 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 27 October, 1988.