Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 30 May 1996

Vol. 466 No. 3

Adjournment Debate. - Dismissal of Kilmainham Gaol Guide.

Mr. N. Ahern

Kilmainham Gaol was run on lease by the trustees for many years and was kept going by voluntary workers, many of them veterans of the War of Independence, and their friends. In 1986 the trustees of Kilmainham Gaol historical museum handed over its control to the Office of Public Works. It took over full responsibility for the gaol including renovation, maintenance, security, provision of guides and caretakers and so on. The Government agreed to maintain the gaol in perpetuity for the Irish nation as a historical museum and also agreed that access to the public would be available on as many days of the week as possible.

Undertakings were given by Deputy John Bruton, then Minister for Finance and the keys were formally handed over to Deputy Doyle who was Minister of State with responsibility for the Office of Public Works at the time. Guarantees were also given by the State to provide guides and attendants and that existing voluntary workers would be given first consideration for any such vacancies that became available. This promise has been kept by all Governments up to now.

Any jobs which have arisen in these grades have been made available to existing voluntary workers. However, now with only one pre-1986 voluntary worker left, namely Mr. David Fitzgerald, the Government has broken this agreement. I understand he was recently asked to apply for the job he had been doing very well for 13 years. In that time he would have conducted tours and shown thousands of people around Kilmainham Gaol. After interview he was told that he was not up to the job and was sacked. This happened on the anniversary of the 1916 Rising.

This was a scandalous way to treat this man. I ask whether, in all justice since he is the only one of the pre-1986 voluntary helpers remaining, that some effort be made to give him a job as a guide or caretaker. It seems scandalous, considering that the two people who made the original agreement are the Taoiseach and Minister of State, respectively, that the Government is breaking an agreement solemnly given to the trustees of the museum at that time. Some effort should be made to look after this individual.

Mr. M. Higgins

I thank Deputy Ahern for raising this matter. I listened carefully to what he had to say.

A new exhibition building was constructed within the walls of Kilmainham Gaol and opened to the public in April 1996. There has been a most favourable public reaction to the new exhibition which has allowed various artefacts from the gaol's collection to be put on display for the first time. We are all agreed on that.

With the opening of the new exhibition building and extended opening hours, it was necessary to review the operation of the guide service. A voluntary panel of part-time guides formed part of the service. This panel was, as the Deputy said, set up when the gaol was handed back to the State in 1986 and arose from a commitment then given that the existing voluntary guides be given first consideration, even if these guides wish to carry out their duties free of charge. The gaol was then open to the public on Sundays only and at other times by prior arrangement. However, as the members of the voluntary panel were not obliged to attend for duty, situations arose where an adequate number of guides was not always available. I have to add that, on average, these part-time guides were rostered for duty once every four weeks for about five hours' work and that, in the end, all were paid for their services.

In these circumstances and to ensure a more co-ordinated and integrated service, it was regrettably necessary to disband the part-time voluntary panel of guides. The new guide positions which were created as part of the reorganisation were advertised and the part-time panel members were invited to apply for the positions. I understand that Mr. Fitzgerald did apply and was interviewed but was not successful. Guide positions are highly competitive and it is acknowledged by all that the standard of service provided is of the highest quality.

I am satisfied that the commitment which was given in 1986 has been honoured in full. It will be noted that the existing guides were to be given first consideration, not first refusal, and the process of selection that was recently followed is that used in respect of all heritage sites. The overriding consideration is and must be the efficient running and presentation of the gaol as one of our premier national monuments. The new guiding arrangements which have been put in place will ensure that a first class service will be provided for the public.

Having listened to the Deputy and knowing the circumstances of this case, I am willing to ask my staff to see if there is some way in which the voluntary service provided by Mr. Fitzgerald might be accommodated, if circumstances allow. I can give no guarantees at this stage. Procedures for the new system were followed in full. I appreciate, as everybody does, the work of those who gave a voluntary service in the past. I am willing to see if some accommodation can be arranged.

Mr. N. Ahern

A precedent had been established.