Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 29 Feb 2024

Vol. 1050 No. 5

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Deputy Matt Carthy

Israel continues to act with impunity in its genocidal war on the people of Gaza. More than 30,000 Palestinians have now been killed. In Rafah, millions of Palestinian refugees now face the same nightmare as those massacred in Gaza city and Khan Younis before the eyes of the world. According to the United Nations, more than half a million people face famine. The decline in the population's nutrition status is at a globally unprecedented rate. Children in Gaza are being starved at the fastest rate the world has ever recorded. One in six children under the age of two years in northern Gaza is now acutely malnourished. What Israel is doing on a daily basis is barbaric. The latest cold-blooded massacre of civilians gathering flour from aid trucks in Nabulsi Square has seen dozens of civilians killed and hundreds more wounded.

The State responsible for this and countless other massacres enjoys the most preferential diplomatic, economic and trading relationship with the EU of virtually any non-European country. These arrangements are worth billions of euro each year to an Israeli regime that is literally starving children to death and attacking civilians in the most relentless, brutal manner.

The Tánaiste previously failed to support motions calling on Ireland to intervene in the case brought by South Africa against Israel at the International Court of Justice, ICJ. Does he accept that what is happening in Gaza is genocide? The evidence is crystal clear. The international community has a responsibility to end the barbarity we are witnessing in Gaza. Ireland, of course, has a role to play. We must insist on the adherence to international law. We must also insist on consequences for those who are in gross violation of international law. Israel cannot be treated as a normal state while it engages in such barbarity.

The Taoiseach co-signed a letter calling for the suspension of the EU-Israel association agreement. This was the correct, albeit belated, thing to do. The failure of the EU to take any meaningful sanction against Israel has undermined Europe's credibility as a voice for peace and conflict resolution in the world. What else is the Tánaiste going to do to force the EU to take action? What action is he going to take? Sinn Féin's Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestments Bill 2023 was read for a Second Time recently after the Government delayed its passage by nine months. The Bill, brought forward by Deputy John Brady, would simply ensure that Irish taxpayers' moneys cannot be invested in companies that profit from Israel's illegal occupation. Will the Tánaiste now commit to the House to ensuring that it becomes law without delay? Will he recognise the state of Palestine? No more excuses. Israel is attempting to bomb Palestine out of existence. If the world does not take a stand, there will be no Palestine left to recognise. Will the Tánaiste, at long last, simply do what international law requires of us all, and officially acknowledge that the Palestinian people are entitled to their state, their freedom and a future free from Israeli occupation, apartheid and oppression? On behalf of the people of Ireland, will the Government recognise the state of Palestine?

The Tánaiste

Caithfidh mé a rá gur drochscéal ar fad atá le feiscint i nGaza. Tá sé dochreidte an méid atá á fhulaingt acu agus caithfidh muid gach aon iarracht a dhéanamh chun an cogadh seo a stopadh. Tá muid sa tír seo ag déanamh gach iarrachta agus tá sé sin soiléir ón méid atá déanta againn go dtí seo ó thaobh cúrsaí polaitíochta agus airgeadais de agus ó thaobh na cabhrach agus tacaíochta atá tugtha againn go UNRWA agus a lán comhlachtaí eile atá cumasach ó thaobh cabhrach agus tacaíochta a thabhairt i gcúrsaí bia, sláinte, oideachais agus mar sin de.

Ireland has comprehensively stood up on this issue and is recognised across the world as having a very distinctive and robust position on the war in Gaza. Ireland was one of the first countries in the European Union to call for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire. We have supported UN resolutions on successive occasions. Ireland is also one of the first countries in Europe to take the lead in supporting Arab peace initiative resolutions at the UN. We have used every political, financial, diplomatic and humanitarian measure we possibly can to help the people of Gaza, and the people of Palestine more generally, in terms of the unacceptable and extraordinary situation of hunger, famine, death and destruction that is being visited on them. We are very clear on that.

Only the week before last, the Attorney General was before the International Court of Justice in respect of the United Nations General Assembly seeking an advisory opinion on the legality of Israel's occupation in Palestine. That started long before the war. I oversaw and cleared the robust written legal submission we made to the court last July. This was followed up by the oral participation of the Attorney General. I say this because it demonstrates that Ireland takes legal cases seriously. The Deputy has used language that is not quite accurate or correct. He said we failed to intervene. We have not failed to intervene in any case and the Deputy knows that deep down but, unfortunately, he is just playing politics with it again. Sinn Féin is seeking to divide the House and create a wedge issue, as if it is more virtuous than anybody else. I respectfully suggest that Sinn Féin has a role also. It has been too silent in the United States. I have seen no effort from Sinn Féin to go to the United States or to address the issue on its social media platforms in the United States. Sinn Féin has been very vocal on other issues but on the Palestinian question it has been extraordinarily silent in the United States. I have gone to Washington and spoken to Senators and some of Sinn Féin's friends who challenged me about Ireland's position on Israel and Palestine. I actually suggested to one or two of them that they should talk to Sinn Féin on these issues. I say this because Sinn Féin is having a cut at the Government all the time and making inaccurate statements on the matter. It should not be doing that. The Deputy knows our position on the International Court of Justice and the genocide convention. South Africa itself has not yet filed a memorial on that case. It will probably have it ready in two to three months. We and our legal team are working on it. That is the official position.

We need hostages to be released and we need this war to stop. There can be no incursion into Rafah. We were one of the first countries to say stop pausing aid to UNWRA and we came up with a €20 million allocation some weeks ago to demonstrate our clear focus on relieving the humanitarian crisis facing Gazans. Unquestionably, there is no one in this House who is not appalled by or does not abhor what is happening to the people of Gaza. It is wrong; I condemn it and I have called for it to stop now.

Deputy Matt Carthy

To be absolutely clear, Sinn Féin takes every opportunity with every individual and state of influence to call for an end to Israeli oppression of the people of Palestine. I asked the Tánaiste a number of questions and he did not answer a single one of them. I have acknowledged the positive moves made by the Government, including the Attorney General's appearance at the ICJ regarding the advisory opinion. If we listen to the words the Attorney General said on behalf of the people of Ireland, the next logical question that will be asked by any right-thinking person is what the Government is going to do about it.

One of the questions I asked the Tánaiste was about recognising the state of Palestine. Everybody says there needs to be a two-state solution. Currently we have two states, one of which is officially recognised and enjoys diplomatic relationships and preferential trading economic and financial arrangements with the western world.

The other state faces annihilation. We have not officially recognised it, despite the fact that we in this House and the Upper House have voted to do so, as well as the fact that the overwhelming majority of the Irish people want the state of Palestine to be recognised. The Tánaiste's answer is always that we are waiting for someone else to join us. However, I am asking him on all of our behalf to show leadership, set a date for Ireland to officially recognise the state of Palestine and encourage others to join us in doing so.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

The Tánaiste

Ireland's position is well-recognised. When speaking with any Arab nation, they say they appreciate the Irish position on Palestine. On the question of recognition, it is not about waiting around. It is about deploying that in the most optimal way possible for the people of Palestine. What do I mean by that? The Arab states are currently very close to concluding a peace initiative on which they are briefing America, the European Union and us. It will have a number of dimensions to it. Clearly, it will involve an immediate ceasefire. It will also have a security dimension in respect of the longer-term sustainable security situation in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank. There will also be the issue of normalisation between the Arab States and Israel. As part of that, then, there would be a Palestinian administration running Gaza and the West Bank together.

The moment such an initiative emerges, it is our view, correctly - and I think the Arab nations agree with this - that we should then move with a number of EU member states. That will be the time to recognise it as part of a pathway to political talks, political tracks and a two-state-----

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

Bullshit.

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you Tánaiste.

The Tánaiste

-----solution and recognition.

There is no issue in Ireland regarding recognition but it does merit consideration at least. I put it to the Deputy that any sensible person watching would say that we must use it in the most optimal way possible for the benefit of the Palestinian people. That moment is not too far away.

Deputy Matt Carthy

The problem is that the Tánaiste has been saying this for ten years.

An Ceann Comhairle

We will now go to Deputy Bacik, on behalf of the Labour Party.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

The saga that is RTÉ should not distract us from the ongoing housing crisis and housing disaster. Last Friday, homelessness figures set another new and shameful record for the Government. There are now 13,531 people homeless, including more than 4,000 children - a 17% increase in one year - which is truly shocking. This is a time when, as Lorcan Sirr writes, there are more than 18,000 empty homes available for short-term letting on Airbnb compared to only 2,000 that are available for longer term renting on daft.ie. Meanwhile, the European Commission sits on legislation that would finally bring in some proper regulation.

It has been more than five years since the Labour Party first proposed legislation to regulate short-term lets. I raised this question with the Tánaiste last week but got no satisfactory answer. There seems to be a view from the Government that we must just wait. Tell that to the thousands of people who are in homelessness or who are looking for a home. Other cities across Europe have already acted, so why can we not do so? What are young people going to think when they hear that average house prices have now exceeded the Celtic tiger high and that the average rent in Dublin is more than €2,000 per month? What are they to think when they hear that more than 19,000 eviction notices were issued last year, mostly because the landlord intended to sell? Our rental system is truly a wild west.

I raised this issue with the Tánaiste last week as well, but his response to me then amounted to a commentary on what is going on in the rental sector and not a statement of intent from the Government about what it is doing to address this. The only change the Tánaiste could point to was an extension of the notice periods landlords are obliged to give. In truth, it seems the Government has given up on trying to protect renters. It seems that unscrupulous landlords, like Marc Godart, can do what they like because the authorities will always be playing catch-up.

The Rental Tenancies Board, RTB, and indeed local authorities simply do not have the enforcement powers they need to hold people to account. Renters live in fear of eviction. Recently, in the Irish Examiner, Michael Byrne said that nobody renting privately in Ireland now has a secure home. That is the truth, because a notice of termination may come through the door on any day. We need to see stronger rights and protections for renters. In the Labour Party, we proposed this two years ago in a Bill on renters’ rights.

Is it the Government’s position that it has no further plans to improve the rights of tenants? Increasing supply is clearly at the core of the housing crisis. For months, I have been asking the Government when it is going to increase its housing targets. They are too low and Ireland needs to build more: at least 50,000 homes per year in order to meet the chronic situation of under supply and our growing population.

I will raise this issue with the Tánaiste every week between now and the local elections. What is he doing to tackle the housing crisis? When is he going to regulate short-term lets? What is he going to do now to improve the rights of renters and give people the security they need in their homes?

The Tánaiste

First, I take issue with some of what the Deputy said about my response from last week, because I did deal with the protection issue. The Government has brought in a raft of legislation and measures to protect tenants. There is also the rental tax credit, which was brought in in the budget before last and was increased in this budget.

More fundamentally, the issue is the supply of housing. More than 100,000 new homes have been delivered since 2020, and that figure takes into account the stoppages during the Covid period, when two lockdowns impacted it. That figure includes approximately 30,500 social homes that have been added to the social housing stock to Q3 of 2023. We reckon that a further 10,000 social homes in 2022 and 12,000 social homes were delivered in 2023. Approximately 23,000 social homes are either on site or at design or tender stage.

The importance of social housing is that it relates to homelessness and gives greater capacity to deal with the homelessness situation. We have developed strategies to exit people as quickly as possible from homelessness. The housing first initiative has been very effective in supporting a person who is experiencing homelessness into permanent housing as quickly as possible. The Deputy is familiar with that. Approximately 1,300 tenancies cover the period from 2022 to 2026. These have been provided for. They have been delivered in terms of the targets, etc. That is working with the various bodies that are involved in homelessness. We have exceeded the two-year target of 551 already in respect of that.

We exceeded targets last year on housing generally. This year, we can build close to 35,000 new homes, but we have to incrementally increase those. In respect of the short-term lets, as the Deputy has correctly pointed out, we have legislated and we have provided an initiative on that. Yet, as the Deputy knows, the commission will have to adjudicate on it. It has sought more time, much to our frustration. There is no point in going ahead and subsequently being judged to have infringed. Then, we would have a bigger mess. We are putting on the pressure and we are identifying to the commission the seriousness of this situation with the housing supply issue, as well as the need to get as much housing as possible available for the rental market.

We need more people to get into the rental market. We need more people to rent out homes, etc., as opposed to other options. That is always a balance on the regulatory side as well, because there is evidence that many people are leaving the market. They believe there is no certainty in the market for them either. That is something that we have to bear in mind.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

The Tánaiste and I agree on one thing, which is the issue of supply. Yet, I am not hearing from him, or indeed from any Government spokesperson, any sense of urgency about tackling that chronic under-supply. Therefore, young people - such as the transition year students who are present in the Gallery, who are very welcome today and who are listening in - are getting no sense of hope that this Government will act to ensure there will be a sufficient supply of homes to meet their needs, as well as the needs of a growing population at a time when we are seeing such chronic under-supply.

The reality is that the Government's targets are just too low. I refer to its targets for house building, as well as its targets for the tenant in situ scheme. Last week, the Dublin Simon Community commented in response to that shameful figure on homelessness, stating that the targets for the tenant in situ scheme are also too low. The Government has to ensure that targets are raised to meet the real crisis level of need that it is out there, both through building new homes and through supplying greater security to renters through the tenant in situ scheme.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

We are asking the Tánaiste again: what is his Government now doing to address the serious instability and insecurity that so many renters are now experiencing and to address those crisis figures of homelessness?

The Tánaiste

First, we need to be honest with people.

It is great in politics to say, "Oh, we have a target of 50,000." I think the Deputy said the Labour Party had a target of 1 million houses in ten years-----

Deputy Ivana Bacik

That is the scale of ambition we need.

The Tánaiste

-----with no inkling of a plan to do it. We are the only party in the House - sorry, the Government and the three parties together----

Deputy Paul Murphy

You are in government.

Deputy Ged Nash

It is a provisional Government.

Deputy Sean Sherlock

Una voce.

Deputy Paul Murphy

Are you the only Government?

The Tánaiste

That is music to Paul Murphy's ears because he believes in the one-party state, as we know.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

That is going back in time.

Deputy Sean Sherlock

Briseann an dúchas.

The Tánaiste

This is important. We know what is in the pipeline for next year. The Deputy knows the urgency. This is the number one issue facing the country. The Government has acknowledged it is the number one issue.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

It needs to raise the level of ambition.

The Tánaiste

We need to raise the level of building, not to be playing politics by saying "We have a bigger and better target than you", as happened at the last election.

Deputy Ged Nash

Fianna Fáil used to be ambitious.

The Tánaiste

Someone was doing 50,000, someone else was doing 100,000, so it was "Oh, we are going to do 150,000." You have got to get them built and stop objecting all over the place to housing. If it is the priority that it is, people need to stop objecting to housing developments as they are going up on the basis of whether they are social, affordable or whatever. That has happened too and it has slowed down a lot of projects on councils. That said, do not be under any illusion but that there is total urgency in respect of housing. There is a whole raft of schemes, as the Deputy knows, such as the help to buy scheme and the first homes scheme. They have had a significant impact-----

Deputy Ged Nash

In driving up prices.

The Tánaiste

-----in terms of the numbers of housing that have been completed.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

We need delivery.

The Tánaiste

The number of young people who have been able to draw down mortgages in the last year or two is at a record level compared with the early 2000s. We are improving it but we have a lot more to do.

Deputy Sean Sherlock

A lot more to do. Where did we hear that before?

Deputy Michael McGrath

It is a great slogan.

Deputy Mary Butler

It was time for the Labour Minister to do it.

Deputy Paul Murphy

On Tuesday night, a crowd gathered outside Celbridge Manor. That is where more than 100 people seeking asylum, children, women and men, live. The crowd chanted, "Paedophiles out. Deport them now. Get them out." There were threats made to burn down the building, where people live. Why? Because of a disgusting lie spread on social media by far-right agitators. The lie was that a seven-year-old girl had been raped in the hotel by three non-Irish men. It was first shared by a supporter of the Irish Freedom Party online and then amplified by far-right agitators Fergus Power and Derek Blighe and people were called to protest. It was a lie. These people do not care about the truth. They are happy to spread lies with the aim of deceiving people and whipping people up. Two weeks ago, Dr. Umar Al-Qadri, the chair of the Irish Muslim Council, was lured into a housing estate and beaten up in a racist assault. This is what a rise in the far right is going to look like - more arson attacks, more racist violence, more danger in our communities.

The vast majority of people reject this. People know that responsibility for the housing crisis, the health crisis and the deep inequality in our society lies with the Government, not with vulnerable people. That majority is represented by those who came out of their homes in Tallaght to help Dr. Al-Qadri when he was attacked and those who warned residents of Celbridge Manor arriving home from work about what was going on and helped them get back safely. That majority will be on display this Saturday when more than 130 organisations have come together to organise a solidarity march. At 1.30 p.m. at Parnell Square, thousands of people will stand together against racism, hate and war, for homes, health and rights for all, and to demand that the wealth is shared and inequality is ended. We live in one of the wealthiest countries in the world but more than four in ten parents have skipped meals so their children can have enough to eat. This is a country full of vacant and derelict properties - almost 60,000 properties are long-term vacant - but where more than 4,000 children are in emergency accommodation. These are properties that should be compulsorily purchased by councils, as has finally now happened in Clondalkin.

The far-right agitators are working very consciously to direct people's anger not at those at the top of our society but against those at the bottom. I have confidence in people coming out on Saturday and making their views known, but I have a lot less confidence in the Government. What is the State going to do to protect people? Why did it take so long, more than a day, for the Garda to issue a statement debunking the dangerous lies being spread by the far right? When the far right is spreading lies about imaginary crimes, why is there not an immediate response to tell the truth to people?

The Tánaiste

I condemn without reservation the behaviour and activities of people at that location last week. It is not the first time that malicious and false rumours have been spread about people seeking international protection. We have all heard those rumours. They have been deliberately spread, falsely and wrongly. That stands to be condemned. The Garda is investigating aspects of that, I understand, in respect of false rumours but also in terms of any attack on an individual. In respect of Dr. Al-Qadri, it is shocking and I condemn it without reservation. People came to help him, as the Deputy say. I read that and it illustrates that the vast majority of Irish people have no time for violence, criminal behaviour essentially - let us not call it anything else.

That is why I do not feel it is correct or proper to juxtapose that, which the Deputy kind of did in his presentation, with economic or political issues, or issues around wealth distribution. They are fair enough issues to raise any day in this House but to juxtapose them with the violence the Deputy correctly identified and condemned, I do not quite get that. I do not accept the juxtaposition either. There are legitimate arguments to be had about the enterprise model we have in this country, with strong social protection and strong social interventions. The State intervenes a lot in Ireland to protect people, whether in housing, health or social protection. We have intervened a lot in the last two years because of the cost-of-living increase.

Our economic model is a better model than the one the Deputy advocates. I respectfully put to him that people would be in a far worse condition if they were to follow the economic model that he follows, which is anti-private enterprise. The Deputy does not believe in private enterprise or the whole concept of entrepreneurship and people developing the economy. In our view that has resulted in about 2.7 million people now at work, which is a record high level of employment in Ireland. Three quarters of the working age population is now in employment, which is at an all-time high, with unemployment at 4.2%. We added 90,000 jobs alone in the last year and I was in a position to announce 100 jobs with Infineon Technologies yesterday. Many of those jobs are with companies that are providing high-quality jobs. In the public service, there has been a dramatic, exponential increase in employment across all of the services the State provides. We are focused on that from an economic perspective. It is about that balance with an enterprise model that has generated wealth in this country and enabled us to redistribute it, particularly to protect the most vulnerable.

Deputy Paul Murphy

I do not doubt for a minute that the Tánaiste is utterly opposed to and condemns the arson attacks, racist violence, lies, misinformation and so on. I do not doubt that. I do think the Government bears a responsibility - not the same responsibility, of course, as the far right. For example, it has placed over 1,000 people who have come here seeking asylum in harm's way by putting them on the streets. That is a policy choice it has made. It created a two-tier asylum process which legitimised some of the arguments suggesting that these people are not legitimate asylum seekers. That is one level on which the Government is responsible.

The second is the real issues that affect people, the housing crisis, which gets worse day on day, the inequality and the health crisis. The Government is responsible because of the economic system and those that it represents, namely, the corporate landlords, private developers and so on. Of course, none of that justifies any racist violence or is the fault of asylum seekers. It is true, however, that the far right tries to tap into real, legitimate issues and then direct anger away from the Government and those at the top of our society towards those at the bottom. That is precisely why, on Saturday, we are marching to demand homes for all, healthcare for all and the tackling of inequality as well as to reject the racism and hatred spread by the far right.

The Tánaiste

That is shocking stuff. You condemn racism and appalling behaviour but it is the Government's fault really. That is what you are saying, Deputy, and what you want thousands to say.

Deputy Paul Murphy

The faux outrage.

The Tánaiste

You are now exploiting reprehensible behaviour as a political tool to create leverage against the Government parties. That is what the Deputy does with every issue. That is his modus operandi on every issue that comes before society. That is how he operates. It is reprehensible behaviour. The bottom line is that racists and people of the far right will look for any excuse to justify unacceptable behaviour. We need to be categoric and unequivocal. We must not mix the messages.

Deputy Paul Murphy

Take them off the streets then.

The Tánaiste

No.

Deputy Paul Murphy

The Government is putting asylum seekers on the streets. The faux outrage is a bit much.

The Tánaiste

Let us not mix the messages. There is only one message here. It is "we condemn what you do". We condemn the racists, the undermining of human beings and the undermining of the dignity of every individual that comes to this country.

Deputy Paul Murphy

Good, then protect them. Take them off the streets.

The Tánaiste

Let us not try to queer the pitch or muddy the waters, which the Deputy has tried to do.

Deputy Paul Murphy

Take them off the streets.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, please.

The Tánaiste

Everyone knows we have had an unprecedented situation with the war in Ukraine that Russia visited upon Europe. It is the first time since the Second World War and I disagree with the Deputy's views on that. Russia has done that.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Tánaiste is way over time.

The Tánaiste

Some 100,000 people have arrived. We have had a fivefold increase in the number of people seeking asylum because of war and conflict all over the world. It is a huge pressure point all over Europe. It is not a policy choice at all, as the Deputy just sort of threw out there.

Deputy Paul Murphy

It is.

The Tánaiste

It is not.

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, we are over time.

The Tánaiste

It is a genuine attempt by the Government to respond to the unprecedented situation we are facing with the migratory situation across the globe.

Deputy Paul Murphy

Shameful.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Marian Harkin, on behalf of the Independent Group.

Deputy Marian Harkin

When I spoke on the family referendum in the Dáil a few weeks ago, I agreed that we need to widen the definition of the family in the Constitution to include, for example, one-parent families, non-married families, grandmothers and grandchildren and so forth. Like many others who spoke in the Dáil that day, who were mostly women I might add, while supporting the aspirations of the amendment, I had considerable difficulty with the term "durable relationships".

Relationships are complex and unique. One person's idea of a durable relationship might be living together for a year or two to see how it works out. The understanding of what is a durable relationship is hugely influenced by a person's expectations, hopes, beliefs and dreams. It emanates as much from the heart and gut as it does from the head. One reporter writing in a daily newspaper said:

I’ve been in a number of durable relationships. Only two of them ended in marriage. Did I love the other people in those relationships? Sure. For those years of commitment. Would I attest to it in a court? At the time, yes. Now, no.

Therein lies the difficulty. When durable relationships end, what happens to the rights of the adults and children in that family and if there are several durable relationships, how are rights adjudicated? Now the State is stepping in and without any legal framework is according the status of family to all durable relationships, which is fine. However, the very least we owe ordinary men, women and especially children, is some kind of legal framework under which they will have some protection they can rely on for their rights and protections as a family. For example, how can people say to Revenue that they are in a durable relationship, in a family, and that they want the same tax treatment as other families? If Revenue objects, will they have to go to court? Will Revenue just say it is fine? How can people have clarity about succession rights and claims to property ownership if the status of their family, based on a durable relationship - this is crucial - can only be decided retrospectively by the courts when there is a dispute. These are real, everyday issues that people are bringing up with me and I have no answers other than to tell them they may have to go to court.

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you, Deputy.

Deputy Marian Harkin

I await the Tánaiste's answers.

Why did the Government not trust this House to give some legal framework or guidelines to those who wish to assert their family status by means of a durable relationship?

The Tánaiste

I thank the Deputy for raising the issue. We have a constitutional framework and a legal framework that the Oireachtas has provided through a variety of laws. I will deal with the latter in a moment.

On the constitutional front, the term "durable relationships", as the Deputy correctly said at the outset of her contribution, is about including couples with or without children, single parents and their children and grandparents raising children. Some 42% of children born in 2022 were born to an unmarried couple. Therefore it is important that the Constitution reflects that reality. People are broadly supportive of that.

The Deputy asked where the protection is. The existing text of the Constitution provides guidance on determining whether a given relationship can be considered a family under the Constitution because the family is described as the "natural primary and fundamental unit group of Society, and...a moral institution possessing inalienable and imprescriptible rights". Article 41.1.2° goes on to observe that the family is "the necessary basis of social order and...indispensable to the welfare of the Nation and the State". That text remains unchanged under the proposed amendment, which ensures the constitutional protection and recognition that will be afforded to the family will not be extended to casual or transient relationships.

A huge body of law on welfare, taxation and family reunification already exists and rights and benefits are usually created by legislation. The Oireachtas and the Executive of the day have that function. Taxation obligations are set out in the Taxes Consolidation Act 1997 and related legislation. People's entitlement to social welfare are largely set out in the Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005. Family reunification rights are set out in the International Protection Act 2015. The Deputy referred to the Succession Act. It was probably one of the great radical moves of the 20th century. Charles J. Haughey introduced it in 1965. It was described by international legal people as the end of feudalism in Ireland. It gave women the right to succession. That Act is still in place and still sustains. The proposed amendment on the family does not seek to repeal, alter or amend the rights or obligations that exist under these statutes. It is important we try not to confuse or muddle the issues. That is very clear. The amendment does not seek to do any of that. Equally, the Legislature will continue to retain its entitlements. The Deputy asked why the Oireachtas was not trusted. Every year, the Oireachtas is entitled to set rational social welfare, taxation and immigration policies in pursuit of the common good. We retain that right in this House.

Deputy Marian Harkin

My concern is that legal ambiguity around durable relationships, which will be families if the referendum passes, will only arise where there are disputes, between members of a family or between Revenue and a family. Given that we have no legal framework, the only way to resolve those disputes will be to go to court, and perhaps one court after another, up to the Supreme Court. The Tánaiste mentioned a lot of legislation. I can only comment on one. He talked about the family reunification Act of 2015. The most recent case on that is the 2020 case in the Supreme Court, where it said when talking about the durability of a relationship

Thus, a durable partnership will tend to be one of some duration, but that is not to say that the duration of the relationship is, in itself, a defining feature...it is perfectly possible for a committed long-term, what is often called a “serious” relationship, to exist between persons who have known one [another] for a short time.

That conflicts with what the Tánaiste said a moment ago about transient relationships. The outcome of this case was that the court said the Minister could not make a two-year cohabitation period mandatory for family reunification and that the Minister has flexibility.

An Ceann Comhairle

We are way over time.

Deputy Marian Harkin

That is the problem. It is unclear and uncertain and families really do deserve better.

The Tánaiste

It is very clear. I have just spelled it out in terms of the taxation question. There is legislation that governs taxation. We have the civil partnership and cohabitation Act, which we passed in this House. All these issues have been set out in clear-----

Deputy Marian Harkin

The frameworks?

The Tánaiste

But the legal frameworks are in place.

Deputy Marian Harkin

Not for-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Please.

The Tánaiste

Included are the Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005, the Taxes Consolidation Act 1997 and the International Protection Act 2015, which deals with family protection rights. There have been attempts – I am not saying the Deputy has been involved in them – to muddy the water and create confusion but there is a constitutional framework. Our Constitution has two great strengths. The first is the power of the people to amend it, which we are now exercising, and the second is judicial interpretation. Judicial interpretation has applied since the Constitution came into effect. This made it a radical constitution in the 1930s in the context of fascism. The then Executive and Oireachtas ceded some of their rights to the courts. We did that back in 1937.

An Ceann Comhairle

The time is up.

The Tánaiste

It was quite a radical thing to do when states were taking power in. My point is that there are two frameworks. There is a constitutional framework, under a written Constitution, that will always be subject to judicial interpretation, but there is also the legal framework, which the Oireachtas passes, on succession, taxation and social protection.

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, but the time is up.

The Tánaiste

I apologise; I was engaged.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Tánaiste was in full flight. I appeal to Members to adhere to the times laid down.

That concludes Leaders' Questions. I thank everyone for their participation.