Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 5 Mar 2024

Vol. 1050 No. 6

An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Hildegarde Naughton)

I move:

Tuesday's business shall be:

- Motion re Proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of the Framework Agreement on Comprehensive Partnership and Cooperation between the European Union and its Member States and the Kingdom of Thailand (without debate)

- Motion re Proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of the Strategic Partnership Agreement between the European Union and its Member States and Japan (without debate)

- Motion re Proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Finance Act 2004 (Section 91) (Deferred Surrender to the Central Fund) Order 2024 (without debate)

- Statements on International Women’s Day (not to exceed 2 hrs 27 mins)

Tuesday's private members' business shall be the Motion re Supporting People with Disabilities and Carers, selected by Sinn Féin.

Wednesday's business shall be:

- Motion re Report of the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach under Dáil Standing Order 133 on a Proposal for a Directive establishing harmonised requirements in the internal market on transparency of interest representation carried out on behalf of third countries and amending Directive (EU) 2019/1937 (without debate)

- Motion re Report of the Committee on Standing Orders and Dáil Reform entitled "Orders of Reference for Special Committee on Drugs Use" (without debate)

- Motion re Ministerial Rota for Parliamentary Questions (without debate)

- Ráitis maidir leis an nGaeilge chun Seachtain na Gaeilge a chomóradh (not to exceed 1 hr 52 mins)

- Statements on Rare Diseases (not to exceed 57 mins)

- Forty-first Amendment of the Constitution (Agreement on a Unified Patent Court) Bill 2024 (Committee and remaining Stages) (to commence no earlier than 4 p.m. and to conclude within 60 minutes)

- Motion re Statement for the Information of Voters in relation to the Forty-first Amendment of the Constitution (Agreement on a Unified Patent Court) Bill 2024 (without debate)

- European Arrest Warrant (Amendment) Bill 2022 (Amendments from the Seanad) (if not previously concluded, to adjourn after 60 mins)

- Research and Innovation Bill 2024 (Report and Final Stages) (if not previously concluded, to adjourn after 2 hrs)

- Road Traffic Bill 2024 (Report and Final Stages) (if not previously concluded, to adjourn either at 10.19 p.m. or after 1 hr 30 mins, whichever is the later)

Wednesday's private members' business shall be the Motion re Housing Targets and Regulation, selected by the Labour Party.

Thursday's business shall be Statements on Nature Restoration Law (not to exceed 3 hrs 32 mins).

Thursday evening business shall be the Motion re Report entitled "Final Report of the Joint Committee on Autism”.

Proposed Arrangements for this week’s business:

In relation to Tuesday’s business, it is proposed that:

1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the following extent:

(i) the Dáil may sit later than 10.32 p.m.;

(ii) the time allotted to Government business shall be extended in accordance with the arrangements for the Statements on International Women's Day, with consequential effect on the commencement times for the items following in the ordinary routine of business, namely, private members’ business, Parliamentary Questions to the Minister for Rural and Community Development, and topical issues;

2. the proceedings on the Motion re Proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of the Framework Agreement on Comprehensive Partnership and Cooperation between the European Union and its Member States and the Kingdom of Thailand shall be taken without debate;

3. the proceedings on the Motion re Proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of the Strategic Partnership Agreement between the European Union and its Member States and Japan shall be taken without debate;

4. the proceedings on the Motion re Proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Finance Act 2004 (Section 91) (Deferred Surrender to the Central Fund) Order 2024 shall be taken without debate; and

5. the Statements on International Women’s Day shall not exceed 2 hours and 27 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply thereto:

(i) the arrangements for the statements, not including the Ministerial response, shall be in accordance with the arrangements agreed by Order of the Dáil of 30th July, 2020, for 135 minutes, and the Resolution of the Dáil of 20th September, 2023, providing for two minutes for non-aligned members;

(ii) following the statements, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes; and

(iii) members may share time.

In relation to Wednesday's business, it is proposed that:

1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the following extent:

(i) the Dáil may sit later than 9.30 p.m. and shall adjourn on the conclusion of the weekly division time, which may be taken later than 8.45 p.m., and shall in any event be taken on the adjournment of proceedings on the Report and Final Stages of the Road Traffic Bill 2024, or where those proceedings conclude before they must be interrupted, on the conclusion thereof;

(ii) in the event the Taoiseach is unable to attend for questions pursuant to Standing Order 46(1), the SOS pursuant to Standing Order 25(1) may take place earlier than 1.49 p.m., with consequential effect on the commencement time for Government business; and

(iii) the proceedings on the Motion re Statement for Information of Voters in relation to the Forty-first Amendment of the Constitution (Agreement on a Unified Patent Court) Bill 2024 shall be taken without debate immediately upon the conclusion of that Bill;

2. the proceedings on the Motion re Report of the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach under Dáil Standing Order 133 on a Proposal for a Directive establishing harmonised requirements in the internal market on transparency of interest representation carried out on behalf of third countries and amending Directive (EU) 2019/1937 shall be taken without debate;

3. the proceedings on the Motion re Report of the Committee on Standing Orders and Dáil Reform entitled " Orders of Reference for Special Committee on Drugs Use" shall be taken without debate;

4. the proceedings on the Motion re Ministerial Rota for Parliamentary Questions shall be taken without debate;

5. the Statements on the Irish Language to mark Seachtain na Gaeilge shall not exceed 1 hour and 52 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply thereto:

(i) the arrangements for the statements, not including the Ministerial response, shall be in accordance with the arrangements agreed by Order of the Dáil of 30th July, 2020, for 100 minutes, and Resolution of the Dáil of 20th September, 2023, providing for two minutes for non-aligned members;

(ii) following the statements, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes; and

(iii) members may share time;

6. the Statements on Rare Diseases shall not exceed 57 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply thereto:

(i) the order of speaking and allocation of time shall be as follows:-

- opening statement by a Minister or Minister of State - 10 minutes;

- statement by a member of a Government party - 5 minutes

- statements by representatives of Sinn Féin, the Labour Party, Social Democrats, People-Before-Profit-Solidarity, the Regional Group, the Rural Independent Group and the Independent Group - 5 minutes per party or group;

- speeches by non-aligned members – 2 minutes; and

- a speech in response by the Minister – 5 minutes; and

(ii) members may share time;

7. the proceedings on Committee and remaining Stages of the Forty-first Amendment of the Constitution (Agreement on a Unified Patent Court) Bill 2024 shall commence no earlier than 4 p.m. and shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 60 minutes by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment;

8. the proceedings on the amendments from the Seanad to the European Arrest Warrant (Amendment) Bill 2022 shall, if not previously concluded, be interrupted and stand adjourned after 1 hour, and shall not be resumed on Wednesday;

9. the proceedings on Report and Final Stages of the Research and Innovation Bill 2024 shall, if not previously concluded, be interrupted and stand adjourned after 2 hours, and shall not be resumed on Wednesday; and

10. the proceedings on Report and Final Stages of the Road Traffic Bill 2024 shall, if not previously concluded, be interrupted and stand adjourned either at 10.19 p.m. or after 1 hour and 30 minutes, whichever is the later, and shall not be resumed on Wednesday.

In relation to Thursday's business, it is proposed that:

1. (i) the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the extent that topical issues may be taken earlier than 7.24 p.m. and shall in any event be taken on the conclusion of the Statements on Nature Restoration Law, and the Motion re Report entitled “Final Report of the Joint Committee on Autism” shall be taken on the conclusion of topical issues, with consequential effect on the time for the adjournment of the Dáil; and

(ii) the Dáil on its rising shall adjourn until 2 p.m. on Wednesday, 20th March 2024;

2. the Statements on Nature Restoration Law shall not exceed 3 hours and 32 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply thereto:

(i) the arrangements for the statements, not including the Ministerial response, shall be in accordance with the arrangements agreed by Order of the Dáil of 30th July, 2020, for 200 minutes, and Resolution of the Dáil of 20th September, 2023, providing for two minutes for non-aligned members;

(ii) following the statements, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes; and

(iii) members may share time; and

3. the proceedings on the Motion re Report entitled "Final Report of the Joint Committee on Autism" shall be taken in Committee of the whole Dáil and Senator Micheál Carrigy may attend and be heard during the proceedings: Provided that the arrangements as provided for in Standing Order 102 shall apply to the proceedings.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is that agreed?

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

Not agreed.

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

As the Ceann Comhairle will be aware, last week on behalf of Sinn Féin I made a request that the Minister, Deputy Catherine Martin, come before the Dáil to answer questions from the Opposition on this whole mess with RTÉ and the effective sacking of Siún Ní Raghallaigh. The Government did not agree to this last week. It did not facilitate any questions being asked by the Opposition. We now have a lengthy statement by Siún Ní Raghallaigh in the public domain, which throws a very different light on the presentation by the Minister, Deputy Martin. Therefore, I ask the Taoiseach again whether he will ensure the Minister, Deputy Martin, comes before the Dáil this week to take questions from the Opposition following the dramatic intervention by Siún Ní Raghallaigh yesterday.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

Yesterday's dramatic statement by the former chair of the RTÉ board, Siún Ní Raghallaigh, clearly raises more questions for the Minister, Deputy Martin, and, indeed, the Government to respond to. I echo the calls that have been made for statements, questions and answers to be scheduled before the Dáil this week so we can finally put this matter to rest, because this has dragged on too long. It is distracting from real business, such as housing and Government failures on healthcare. These are the issues we should be debating, but the chaotic goings-on at RTÉ have been exacerbated by the Minister's actions and we need to have a final question and answer session on this.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

On the same issue, I too am looking for time. Indeed, I wrote to the Ceann Comhairle and the Business Committee to ask for time to be allocated this week in the Dáil, including time for questions and answers. This is an extraordinary press release by the former chair of the board. A new chair was just appointed today. Leaving this with unresolved questions is not the way to resolve the many issues in RTÉ. This absolutely has to happen this week because the Dáil will be in recess next week, and if the new chair is to start on the right footing, these issues need to be addressed in this House this week.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

The shambles in RTÉ has rolled on for approximately nine months now. It is clearly the Government's responsibility. It has failed to put this mess to bed and to sort out the governance issues. The Minister needs to answer questions so we can get beyond this debacle. Let us remember that it is the public and the workers in RTÉ who have done nothing wrong who are having to stomach this debacle and the failure of the Government to address it.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

On behalf of the Rural Independent Group, I raise serious questions and I ask for a debate on the role of the Electoral Commission in these referendums and the might of what the Government has done in light of the landmark McKenna judgment. Last week we saw Ms Orla O'Connor being appointed by the commission in the middle of a referendum campaign to its research advisory group. The Minister, Deputy Catherine Martin, has stated that she knows more than the judge who is chair of the commission. We had the Taoiseach's free run on the "Six One" news one evening last week, and today the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, told us that a "Yes" vote would mean carers would get more supports. That is downright misinformation because it is untrue.

Deputy Heather Humphreys

No, it is not.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

You had the cheek earlier to talk about misinformation.

Deputy Heather Humphreys

Hold on-----

Deputy Mattie McGrath

It is misinformation and buying votes. The Taoiseach can smirk all he likes-----

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

Buying the electorate.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

-----but the people know what is going on and the Government will get a fine kick in the you-know-where next week on Friday or Saturday and the smirk will be on the other side of his face. It is downright blatant abuse of a system. The Electoral Commission is not to be trusted now.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

All the parties here, yes, you are all great people.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Simon Harris

It has been mainly people outside the House.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, your time is up, please.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

You cannot buy votes.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, please.

The Government should not be putting that kind of full-page advertising in the Irish Independent today.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, please. The time is up.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

It is buying votes. It is blatant interference.

The Taoiseach

Deputy McGrath has many years on me and much more experience but, really, with experience should come wisdom. What we heard today is just the latest conspiracy theory. I am not sure who he has involved in it this time. He left out the World Economic Forum on this occasion but I think he had the Irish Independent and the Referendum Commission, which does not even exist any more.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

Let the Taoiseach answer, Deputy McGrath.

The Taoiseach

I will leave it at that.

On the RTÉ issues, the Minister, Deputy Catherine Martin, answered questions for three and a half hours before the committee last week and made statements here in the Chamber. In regard to the statement of the former chairperson, the Minister has written to the committee about this, provided some phone call and meeting notes, which it requested, and also has confirmed that she met the chairperson 11 times in the past nine months. She is willing to engage with and appear before the committee again but she would like that to be in the context of the final reports being published and made available to the committee. That can be done in a matter of the next few weeks.

I hope we can move on from this. We need a strong RTÉ in this country. We are a small country of only 5 or 6 million people. We need to produce our own news content, our own current affairs content, our own drama, our own entertainment and our own children's and Irish-language programming. If we do not, there is a huge risk we will just get sucked into the news, media and entertainment market of the UK and the US. That would not be good for our country. We made significant decisions today as a Government to appoint a new chairperson, who is someone with great experience of leading State boards and also has great financial experience, and two new board members as well. I hope that can be the beginning of a new start and allowing us to move on from this.

An Ceann Comhairle

Are the proposed arrangements for this week's business agreed to?

Deputy Mattie McGrath

They are not agreed.

Question put: : "That the proposed arrangements for this week's business be agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 71; Níl, 51; Staon, 0.

Tá

• Browne, James.
• Bruton, Richard.
• Burke, Colm.
• Butler, Mary.
• Byrne, Thomas.
• Cahill, Jackie.
• Calleary, Dara.
• Cannon, Ciarán.
• Carroll MacNeill, Jennifer.
• Chambers, Jack.
• Costello, Patrick.
• Coveney, Simon.
• Creed, Michael.
• Devlin, Cormac.
• Dillon, Alan.
• Donnelly, Stephen.
• Donohoe, Paschal.
• Duffy, Francis Noel.
• Durkan, Bernard J.
• English, Damien.
• Farrell, Alan.
• Feighan, Frankie.
• Flaherty, Joe.
• Fleming, Sean.
• Foley, Norma.
• Grealish, Noel.
• Griffin, Brendan.
• Harris, Simon.
• Haughey, Seán.
• Heydon, Martin.
• Higgins, Emer.
• Humphreys, Heather.
• Kehoe, Paul.
• Lahart, John.
• Lawless, James.
• Leddin, Brian.
• Madigan, Josepha.
• Martin, Catherine.
• Matthews, Steven.
• McAuliffe, Paul.
• McConalogue, Charlie.
• McEntee, Helen.
• McGrath, Michael.
• McGuinness, John.
• McHugh, Joe.
• Moynihan, Aindrias.
• Moynihan, Michael.
• Murnane O'Connor, Jennifer.
• Naughten, Denis.
• Naughton, Hildegarde.
• Noonan, Malcolm.
• O'Brien, Joe.
• O'Callaghan, Jim.
• O'Dea, Willie.
• O'Donnell, Kieran.
• O'Donovan, Patrick.
• O'Dowd, Fergus.
• O'Gorman, Roderic.
• O'Sullivan, Christopher.
• O'Sullivan, Pádraig.
• Ó Cathasaigh, Marc.
• Phelan, John Paul.
• Rabbitte, Anne.
• Richmond, Neale.
• Ryan, Eamon.
• Smith, Brendan.
• Smyth, Niamh.
• Smyth, Ossian.
• Stanton, David.
• Troy, Robert.
• Varadkar, Leo.

Níl

• Andrews, Chris.
• Bacik, Ivana.
• Barry, Mick.
• Boyd Barrett, Richard.
• Brady, John.
• Browne, Martin.
• Buckley, Pat.
• Cairns, Holly.
• Canney, Seán.
• Carthy, Matt.
• Clarke, Sorca.
• Collins, Michael.
• Connolly, Catherine.
• Cronin, Réada.
• Crowe, Seán.
• Cullinane, David.
• Daly, Pa.
• Donnelly, Paul.
• Ellis, Dessie.
• Farrell, Mairéad.
• Gould, Thomas.
• Guirke, Johnny.
• Healy-Rae, Danny.
• Healy-Rae, Michael.
• Howlin, Brendan.
• Kenny, Gino.
• Kenny, Martin.
• Kerrane, Claire.
• Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig.
• McDonald, Mary Lou.
• McGrath, Mattie.
• Munster, Imelda.
• Murphy, Catherine.
• Murphy, Paul.
• Mythen, Johnny.
• Nash, Ged.
• O'Callaghan, Cian.
• O'Rourke, Darren.
• Ó Murchú, Ruairí.
• Ó Ríordáin, Aodhán.
• Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
• Pringle, Thomas.
• Quinlivan, Maurice.
• Ryan, Patricia.
• Shortall, Róisín.
• Smith, Duncan.
• Stanley, Brian.
• Tully, Pauline.
• Ward, Mark.
• Whitmore, Jennifer.
• Wynne, Violet-Anne.

Staon

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Hildegarde Naughton and Cormac Devlin; Níl, Deputies Pádraig Mac Lochlainn and Mattie McGrath.

Question declared.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

It is very much the business of the State to support those who need care and those who provide care. The Taoiseach's recent comments in the media stating his position that the provision of care for vulnerable citizens is not the responsibility of the State are entirely wrong. They are, of course, very informative because they go some way towards explaining why carers have been so badly treated, why they have been left behind time and again and why so many find themselves burnt out and in a desperate lifelong battle with the system in the context of simply getting the basics that they need to provide the care that their loved ones require.

I put it to the Taoiseach that it is time for a sea change in terms of how the Government regards and understands the provision of care. We have a motion before the House this evening which, finally, makes provision for the ratification of the optional protocol on disability. It would also provide for respite services and therapies, the very things that a decent Government and State should and must provide for those who require care and for those who provide it.

The Taoiseach

On the optional protocol on disability, the previous Government, which I the privilege to lead as Taoiseach, signed the UN convention. The current Government made a commitment to ratify the optional protocol. We will do so. Earlier today, the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, received approval from the Cabinet to establish the interdepartmental working group to make that possible. That has been decided, and we will honour that commitment in the programme for Government.

Following on from her budget announcement, the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, has announced that a review of the means test and the system of payments to carers is under way. Those are very meaningful things.

As is always the case, the Deputy misrepresented what I said. I said nothing at all about vulnerable people. I said that parents have responsibilities to their children, that families have responsibilities to each other and that care is a shared responsibility. It involves families, the State and everyone else being involved in doing what is best and what is right for those who need care. Any right-thinking and reasonable person would agree.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

That is not what you said.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

Today, more than 1,000 people are seeking international protection here and are sleeping rough on the streets of our capital city, many of them in tents less than 1 km away from here in Mount Street. Leaving people on the streets in poor weather risks lives. Emergency measures were put in place when there was public outcry during the snow last week. However, on Monday, those vulnerable people were told to go out and fend for themselves again. That is shameful in Ireland in 2024, especially when we see so many vacant properties that could be used to give people shelter. Is it the case that a particular Government decision prevents certain properties that are vacant - for example, a refurbished vacant property that was scheduled to host people from Ukraine - being used to house international protection applicants? Some 1,100 such applicants are being forced to sleep on the streets because there is nowhere available for them. Will the Taoiseach indicate why properties such as those to which I refer cannot be repurposed?

The Taoiseach

There is a Government decision, and there is also a planning issue. People who are beneficiaries of temporary protection, those who have come here from Ukraine, have a different legal status from those who are seeking international protection. There are properties that are being refurbished and that are designated for Ukrainians that cannot currently be used by people who are seeking international protection. This is because of a Government decision and a legal difference in their status.

Deputy Holly Cairns

Israel is continuing its relentless attack on Gaza. More than 30,000 people have been killed and starvation is being used as a weapon of war. At the weekend, distressing images of a ten-year-old child with cerebral palsy, Yazan al-Kafarneh, circulated online. He needed a specialised diet that he was not able to get, so, reduced to skill and bone, he starved to death alongside 20 other children. The Israeli Government continues to deny food aid to Gaza. Last Thursday, over 100 people were killed and more than 750 injured when Israeli forces opened fire on a crowd desperate for rations of flour. Israel’s every action is designed to cause maximum pain, maximum devastation and maximum cruelty. It is unforgivable to not do everything we can to try to help the situation. Israel is committing war crimes and starving innocent children daily. What is the Government doing to continue lobbying for EU trade sanctions? What will the next steps be?

The Taoiseach

I set out in detail the things we are doing in response to a previous question. That question may have been from the Deputy or from someone else. We continue to pursue this issue in the context of the EU-Israel association agreement. We will do so again at the European Council meeting later this month. The Tánaiste in particular is working on the issue of sanctions relating to violent settlers. There are a number of other things as well. Perhaps I can set them out in writing to the Deputy.

Deputy Mick Barry

I do not know if the Taoiseach has ever been in the town of Mallow when traffic is heavy, but I can tell him it is quite the experience. If he has been there, I do not know if he has ever wandered down to a place called the Plaza to have a look at a traffic system which just does not work. Mallow needs a relief road. Why will the Government and Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, not fund a project in this regard? The recent €300,000 allocation came as a savage disappointment to people in Mallow. Once again, their hopes were raised and then dashed by the parties in power. An allocation of €1 million would have done the job to get the relief road to the planning stage. I do not think it is an exaggeration to say that if the money is not put aside for a relief road and if motorists still have to go through the town, more than a few of those motorists will go though the Government parties when it is time to vote later in the year. The Taoiseach needs to pay attention to this one.

The Taoiseach

I have been to Mallow many times. I agree that it needs its relief road. An allocation has been made for this year to progress the project. TII has the capacity, if it makes savings and underspends in other areas, to transfer funds to that project too. However, €300,000 will be adequate to progress the project. That is the important thing for the town.

Deputy Denis Naughten

On 18 January, I raised my concerns regarding inconsistencies in a review of nine cases of haemorrhage where newborn babies suffered bleeding between their skills and scalps during birth in University Hospital Galway in 2022. I sought immediate publication of the report and a transparent review of incidents of this type. When she responded, the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, said she would bring my concerns back to the Minister, Deputy Donnelly, and ask him to respond in writing. I am still awaiting that response. However, I tabled six parliamentary questions on this inquiry. In total, I got a six-sentence answer in response to all of those questions. The questions were longer than the reply. At the HSE forum last week, my colleague Councillor Evelyn Parsons was told by the Saolta group that it will not be publishing the report. The approach here runs contrary to the law we passed last year on open disclosure mandating such transparency. When will this report be published?

The Taoiseach

The HSE has advised that the results of the review and the details of the individual cases were discussed and shared with the families involved in November and December 2023. That would cover the issue of open disclosure. I am advised the decision to publish the report widely rests with the Saolta University Health Care Group, but I see no reason why it could not published -in anonymised form - with the agreement of the people involved. It is important to state that the audit did not find any specific issue of concern and was carried out for good reasons.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I again raise the issue of Seán Meehan, a 65-year-old Tipperary man who built his own log cabin to house himself following a marriage breakdown. Tipperary County Council has refused planning permission and retention permission. Mr. Meehan is facing jail if he does not have the structure removed by 4 April. How come hundreds of modular units can be placed by the State on land without planning permission, for example, at Flood's Cross in Naas, to house refugees, while the State is threatening a single Irishman who placed a modular unit on his land in order to provide for his own housing needs with jail? He has been sentenced. Mr. Meehan has two choices. He can make himself homeless or go to jail. Will this Government introduce a statutory instrument for the hundreds, maybe thousands, of people like Mr. Meehan who are using modular homes and log cabins to house themselves in the middle of a savage housing crisis? I have asked for this already. Our group brought in a motion, and it was not done. It would take the stroke of a pen to allow these structures to be retained and house people rather than those people being on the homeless list.

Deputy Kieran O'Donnell

As the Deputy is aware, there is nothing to prevent people in any local authority area from applying to build houses and structures made of wood. However, it is up to a local authority to assess each application on its merits. That message needs to go out. I do not know the specifics of this case. The Deputy may wish to provide them to me. We obviously cannot get directly involved in any planning matter in any individual case.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

A statutory instrument.

Deputy Kieran O'Donnell

As matters stand, there is nothing to prevent anyone from applying for planning permission for any wooden structure that is a house.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

Mar is eol don Taoiseach, tá dhá reifreann ar siúl ar an Aoine bheag seo. Eascraíonn na reifrinn sin as an tionól saoránach agus an coiste traspháirtí, agus na moltaí láidre a rinneadh sna tuarascálacha sin. Tar éis na tuarascálacha, bhunaigh an Rialtas coiste idir-rannach, ach níl cliú againn faoi céard a dúirt an coiste sin, na tuairimí, na moltaí nó aon tuarascáil. Tá an ceist curtha faoi dhó agam ar urlár na Dála agus trí cheisteanna ach níl freagra sásúil faighte agam. As the Taoiseach knows, two referendums are due to take place on Friday. They arise as a result of the strong recommendations of the citizens' assembly and the cross-party committee. Following the publication of the reports of the assembly and the committee, the Government set up an interdepartmental committee to look at their recommendations. The Government is clearly in possession of the relevant knowledge, but we are not. Will the Taoiseach indicate why that is the case? Will he give us the details and state if there are reports arising?

The Taoiseach

I will look into that. There is always a process to be followed with referendums. I have been involved in many of them, including those relating to marriage equality and repealing the eighth amendment to the Constitution. The Government would always take on board what a citizens' assembly or convention has to say. It would also look at what an all-party committee would have to say. We would then set up an interdepartmental group. There was a similar process for other referendums. Such a process is required because of the need for the advice of the Attorney General. In addition, the Irish-language translators have to be in the room. The Government needs to consider all of the facts and the advice. I will certainly talk to my people and see if we can make some more information available.

Deputy John McGuinness

The number of families in Carlow and Kilkenny attempting to access child and adolescent mental health services, CAMHS, services is increasing. They simply cannot access those services. I asked this question previously. The Minister of State, Deputy Butler, answered on the day, but nothing has changed. In 2023, one family's GP referred them to CAMHS. They were seeking access to a child psychiatrist. The child was at home and unmanageable. Since then, nothing has happened. Now, the GP is again writing to CAMHS imploring it to do something to help this child. I come across many cases like that. Improvements have to be made. Families like this should get access, either privately or through the CAMHS system. Some intervention has to happen. I would welcome a response from the Taoiseach.

Deputy Mary Butler

As the Deputy knows, children referred to CAMHS by their GPs have to meet a specific threshold. I am delighted to put on record that the waiting list for those accessing CAMHS decreased by 480 last year. There are still approximately 3,700 children on the waiting list. We are working hard across every community healthcare organisation to reduce the list. We have six waiting list initiatives in place. I am delighted to say that in the next few days I will be announcing an additional €10 million in funding for mental health. I will also be providing details on how that is going to be spent. In the context of that €10 million, I have put in place a geographical spread as to where the whole-time-equivalent staff will be put. This is because it is really important that we can secure as many staff as possible in the various areas.

Deputy Patrick Costello

I wish to raise a serious issue relating to Cherry Orchard Hospital and the impact it is having on families. A briefing paper from the multidisciplinary team last August highlighted the significant clinical risk relating to a move, including the potential for high mortality rates. Will the Minister of State meet with families and residents to address their concerns before any move takes place? We have seen the horrendous impact on the people who are resident in the facility and are having to move.

Deputy Mary Butler

We have to put in perspective what I am dealing with as Minister of State with responsibility for older people. HIQA has issued a clear directive that it does not believe the premises is safe and that there is a fire risk. I have to listen to that. As of 27 February, 40 residents had been transferred from Cherry Orchard campus. There are 22 residents still on site. I know the families are not happy, but I have to put patient safety first. I met Bernard Gloster, chief executive of the HSE, last week. Mr. Gloster and his team are engaging with the families. As far as I am concerned, however, when it comes to the care of older people, I cannot take a risk when it comes to fire safety. These people, 40 of whom have already been moved, remain in the care of the HSE. They have moved to a different facility and will be moved back as appropriately as possible. However, we cannot have a situation where we have residents in a facility that HIQA will not be able to register because it is a fire safety risk.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

The Sacred Heart Boys National School in Ballygall caters for boys from Ballygall, Glasnevin, Finglas and Ballymun. The school requires two additional newly built classrooms for 12 children with special needs.

There is an urgent need for autism spectrum disorder, ASD, units and classroom facilities for children with autism and special needs in the area. The Department of Education planning section is holding up progress on this badly needed facility. This needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency as families and children are getting really frustrated by these ongoing delays.

The Taoiseach

I thank Deputy Ellis for raising this important issue. I know the school, although I do not know the particular school project. I will have to inquire with the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan, and ask her to come back to the Deputy with some more detail. We have a very significant budget for school buildings this year, but many projects are falling behind. We need to make sure that we speed them up, and that will be true in my constituency as well as the Deputy's.

Deputy Niamh Smyth

This is kind of on the same matter. I want to raise with the Taoiseach the issue of Bailieborough Community School, which was built many years ago but for 600 students. Back in September of 2022, it was approved to almost double the footprint of that school. That school currently has 740 students. I am going to cut to the chase. The board of management, the principal and I have made many requests to the Department of Education on this. We are simply seeking to move from design stage 2A to 2B. It has been stuck at stage 2A for eight months. The school is doing Trojan work to stagger breaks, classes, physical education, PE, and everything just to manage the situation. Can the Taoiseach make an intervention? Perhaps the Department of public expenditure needs a little bit of a shove on this as well. We really need to see something happen, however. It is deeply unfair to the principal and staff who are trying to manage the situation.

The Taoiseach

This is something on which we are working. As the Deputy knows, I represent Dublin West, which is a rapidly growing area, as is the Deputy’s constituency now as well. There has been a big increase in population, and we have a huge school building programme across the country at the moment at primary and second level. There is a pipeline, and sometimes it moves very well and sometimes it slows down. It is a bit slow at the moment. The Ministers, Deputies Donohoe and Foley, are working very closely on how we can move some of those projects along and speed up that pipeline because it is very much needed. As people will see from the expenditure figures released today, however, spending this year so far by Government is 20% higher than it was last year. We are ahead of profile in terms of spending so far this year. It is not, therefore, the case that the Government is not spending money. We are, and we need to have regard to that too because we are now increasing spending at a rate much faster than the economy is growing and well above the rate of inflation. We just need to not forget about the mistakes of the past too.

Deputy Frankie Feighan

There is considerable concern across my constituency of Sligo–Leitrim, north Roscommon, south Donegal and, indeed, many others regarding the lack of available grant funding to apply for an extension of the sewerage schemes in many of our local towns and villages. Some years ago, prior to the establishment of Irish Water, the Department of housing provided significant funding on a yearly basis to local authorities and communities where there were ten to 15 houses on the outskirts of a town and village. Effectively, it decommissioned their septic tanks and connected them to the mains, resulting in reduced risk of polluting the surrounding river courses. There are numerous groups in this highly sensitive area that have applications ready, but no funding call has been made. When can we see applications open and significant funding made available by the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage for grants for new group sewerage schemes?

Deputy Kieran O'Donnell

The particular matter Deputy Feighan referred to is really one for Uisce Éireann. As he is probably aware, in terms of our Department, there are grants available of up to €12,500 for upgraded septic tanks. However, the particular matter the Deputy raised in respect of houses on the outskirts of areas that have mains sewerage is something my Department will look into.

Deputy Francis Noel Duffy

For thousands of householders and organisations like the Construction Defects Alliance and the Apartment Owners Network, which have campaigned for years, the announcement in January for the interim fire redress scheme brought immense relief. Like many households that are facing water ingress issues and structural damage, we await the legislation and full redress scheme on which I would appreciate some update.

Under the new interim scheme, however, owner management companies, OMCs, will receive funding to carry out the necessary remedial works. Only applications from authorised representatives of OMCs will be considered. Many OMCs around the country face enormous problems, particularly when it comes to management and financing. As we know, OMC board directors are volunteers living within the development who are doing their best but have little or no background or expertise in management and no guidance or manuals to help them with their governance. The programme for Government commits to reviewing the Multi-Unit Developments Act 2011 to regulate OMCs. Could we have an update on the commitment, please?

Deputy Kieran O'Donnell

As Deputy Duffy is probably aware, legislation is currently being prepared in terms of primary legislation in this area. It is currently being progressed by the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien. We have supports in terms of interim measures. At 31 January this year, 79 applications have been processed across 22 local authorities, representing a total of 7,412 residential units, and 80% of those are actually based in the four local authorities.

The Deputy raised the specific issue of OMCs. We will consider that as part of the legislation. He makes a valid point. The most important aspect of all this are the individuals who are living in these apartment blocks and properties. We do not want to do anything to impede that area. It is something we are looking at as part of this legislation.

Deputy Martin Browne

I wish to raise with the Minister of State a meeting I attended last night regarding Mr. Sean Meehan, who is facing homelessness and legal action because he has been ordered to demolish his current residence. This is absolutely crazy in the middle of the housing crisis we have. Does the Government actually believe that people who have had to house themselves should be made homeless at this stage? There are a couple of small things that went awry with the planning. I know the Minister of State has asked certain local authorities to intervene in different cases. We are asking him to intervene in this case. What does he intend to do to help Mr. Meehan and others who are caught in this crazy situation? We have thousands of people on housing lists in local authorities because there is inconsistency right across the country. There is no uniformity. That needs to happen as well. We have to stop - this Government needs to stop - making people homeless and adding to that list.

Deputy Kieran O'Donnell

I am not familiar with the case of Sean Meehan. I have made the general point, however. I do not know the specifics around the planning application, and neither should I, in terms of interfering with the planning process. In a general sense, however, anyone can apply to any local authority for any structure, be it wooden or otherwise, in terms of a house or structure. It is down to the individual planning authorities to make their decision. If the Deputy will provide me with the details of Sean Meehan and the specific set of circumstances about which he spoke regarding the area of homelessness and so forth, certainly, on a humane level, I will undertake to follow up, as I have done for him on previous cases.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Minister of State. We are out of time. We will take three 30-second questions from the remaining Deputies. I call Deputy Paul Murphy.

Deputy Paul Murphy

This morning, I went to a screening organised by the National Animal Rights Association and Animal Rebellion Ireland. It contained footage taken from two randomly selected pig farms in Ireland and it was extremely harrowing. These are very smart, sentient animals. They have no daylight or comfortable bedding. They have no space. They are massively crammed together in farrowing crates, sow stalls and fattening pens. There are dead and dying pigs, which have been really maltreated, and then a whole bunch of dead pigs are left. What is going to happen about it? Will the State at least have an investigation into conditions in the pig industry?

Deputy Verona Murphy

It gives me no pleasure to stand up here and address the children's disability network teams, CDNTs, again. I received a very distressing telephone call from a mother this morning whose beautiful daughter has not received any speech and language therapy since 2019. She said she is absolutely at the end of her tether. Her daughter is suffering with mobility issues because her physiotherapy sessions are few and far between. To put it very simply, the CDNT in New Ross is just not fit for purpose. There is no speech and language service, no occupational therapist and no dieticians. It cannot go on that we make these pleas week in, week out. This is probably my 45th time addressing this issue and nothing is changing. Will the Taoiseach please address this?

Deputy Willie O'Dea

The question of University Hospital Limerick was raised already this morning. I want to say to the Taoiseach that while I appreciate and accept what the Government has done and is doing, the situation on the ground there is beyond appalling, quite frankly. There was a time when we had three emergency department, ED, backups, which a group of experts within the HSE decided to abolish.

They said the best idea was to centralise everything and that it would be a wonderful success. If what is there now is a success, I hate to see what failure looks like. Will the Government will give any consideration to reopening at least one of those EDs because we are at the end of our tether?

The Taoiseach

Regarding the issues Deputy Paul Murphy raised around animal welfare and conditions in pig farms, I would certainly encourage anyone who has evidence of animals being mistreated to pass the evidence on to the relevant authorities and that they should of course investigate them.

On Deputy Verona Murphy's question, I absolutely acknowledge we have a real problem and a real deficiency in providing therapies for children who need it and need it desperately. It is something I experience in my constituency work talking to people all the time. So many parents tell me their harrowing stories of not being able to get the therapies from which they know their children would benefit so much. It is not an acceptable situation. It is not about money. There is €2.9 billion being invested in disability services this year, the highest ever by quite a distance. It is not about political will or who cares the most. We just have an enormous deficiency in skilled, qualified staff who are willing and able to provide these services. That is not something that is easily fixed but there is nothing we are not doing that we can be doing to try to turn this around. If people have suggestions and ideas, I am all ears.

Regarding Deputy O'Dea's comments on UHL, the advice from the experts, the people who are emergency department consultants and who work in emergency departments, is that reopening closed emergency departments or opening new emergency departments in Ireland is not the right way to go. They say we already have resources spread very thinly and they can provide a better service if it is centralised in a number of locations. However, I know that must sound absurd to people who are experiencing overcrowding, whether it is in CUH today or in UHL, but the solution is to go forwards not back. That means making sure we have the additional capacity in UHL but also building up services appropriately in Ennis Hospital, St. John's Hospital and Nenagh Hospital and in community services.