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Joint Committee on Business, Enterprise and Innovation debate -
Tuesday, 13 Feb 2018

Sectoral Employment Order: Minister of State at the Department of Business, Enterprise and Innovation

As we have a quorum, we are now in public session. Apologies have been received from Deputies Quinlivan, Niall Collins and Stephen Donnelly. The committee will now undertake consideration of the Sectoral Employment Order (Mechanical Engineering Building Services Contracting Sector) 2018. In accordance with Dáil Standing Order 84A(4)(k) and Seanad Standing Order 71(3)(k), the Sectoral Employment Order (Mechanical Engineering Building Services Contracting Sector) 2018 in draft was referred to this committee by orders of the Dáil and the Seanad on 6 February 2018. The committee has been asked to send a message to both Houses not later than 20 February 2018 stating that it has completed its consideration of the order.

I would like to welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Breen, and his officials to the meeting and thank them for the briefing material provided, which has been circulated to members. I now invite the Minister of State, Deputy Breen, to make his opening statement.

I thank the Chairman and all the members who are present. I am pleased to present to the committee for its consideration the draft Sectoral Employment Order (Mechanical Engineering Building Services Contracting Sector) 2018. The draft ministerial order is being made under section 17 of the Industrial Relations (Amendment) Act 2015. The intention is that the order will confirm the rates of pay, pension and sick pay entitlements for plumbers, pipe fitters and welders working in the mechanical engineering building services contracting sector.

In January 2017, the TEEU and Unite trade union asked the Labour Court to examine the terms and conditions of plumbers, pipe fitters and welders, including supervisory grades and apprentices, engaged in the mechanical engineering building services contract sector. The Labour Court advertised its intention to undertake the examination of the request and invited submissions from interested parties. Four submissions were received from the Mechanical Engineering and Building Services Contractors' Association, TEEU, Unite and the trustees of the construction workers pension scheme. All submissions were forwarded to be attached to the application before the Labour Court. Subsequently, the Labour Court convened a hearing on the matter on 9 October 2017 and the parties made written submissions and were invited to make formal oral submissions.

The Labour Court adjourned the hearing to facilitate the receipt of further submissions from the parties on matters that arose during the course of the hearing. The Labour Court received a further joint submission from TEEU and from Unite and a further submission from the Mechanical Engineering and Building Services Contractors' Association. The hearing was reconvened on 13 November 2017.

Following this, and being satisfied that making a recommendation would promote harmonious relations between workers and assist in the avoidance of industrial unrest in the mechanical engineering and building services contracting sector, the Labour Court submitted a recommendation to me on 20 December 2017. I considered the recommendation in line with the terms of the 2015 Act and notified the Labour Court on 25 January that I was accepting the recommendation. In making this recommendation the Labour Court must consider the factors set out in section 16(2) of the Act. This includes the potential impact of the making of an order on levels of employment and unemployment in the identified economic sector, the potential impact on competitiveness in the economic sector concerned and that the sectoral employment order would be binding on all workers and employers in the economic sector concerned.

The 2015 Act requires the Minister within six weeks of receipt of the Labour Court recommendation to accept or reject the recommendation or to make an order to give legal effect to the terms of the recommendation. The Act further provides that a draft of any order proposed must obtain the approval of both Houses of the Oireachtas before it can be made. A draft of the order was laid before the Houses on 25 January 2018 as required by section 17(4) of the 2015 Act. I hope that the committee will recognise the importance of ensuring stability in the employment terms and conditions in this sector and will refer the matter back to both Houses for approval so that the order can be given legal effect. When the order comes into effect, its terms will be binding across all of the sector and enforceable by the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC.

I thank the Chairman for giving me the opportunity to make this opening statement to the committee.

I thank the Minister of State. The TEEU and Unite made an application to the Labour Court for a review of pay and other terms and conditions that would operate in the mechanical engineering building services contracting sector. The intention is to provide for rates of pay, pension and sick pay entitlements for plumbers, pipe fitters and welders. The Minister of State has stated he has accepted the recommendation of the Labour Court.

I have accepted it. I must have strong grounds to reject it and I do not. I respect the work of the Labour Court and its independent identity. This is a voluntary agreement reached by both parties. What we are doing is making legal all of the various increases that have happened in the past 12 months.

Will the Minister of State specify how they will benefit from the application?

The rates provided for in the draft order amount to 2.5% on the rates that have been paid in line with the voluntary agreement about which I have spoken. It has been in place in the sector since July 2016. The last increase provided for in the voluntary agreement took effect on 1 October 2017. There have been three increases - an increase of 2.4% in July 2016; an increase of 2.5% in the craft rate on 1 January 2017 and an increase of 2.4% on 1 October 2017. A further increase of 2.5% will come into play on 1 March. We must remember at all times that these rates were agreed between both parties. It is important to ensure certainty for both workers and their employers. Certainty on wage rates is important when people are applying for loans. This is an important part of the Industrial Relations Act.

It is very welcome from my point of view as Chairman of the Joint Committee on Business, Enterprise and Innovation. It is welcome that rates of pay, pension and sick pay entitlements are being recognised. In many cases, plumbers, pipe fitters and welders may be self-employed or part of a one or two-person show. Rates of pay, including sick pay, are important when one is self-employed.

I welcome the order. As the Minister of State rightly said, both employers and unions wanted this agreement which I welcome because it brings stability and improves rates of pay at a time when we need them, not just for the workers but also to attract people to return home because we know that is a sector that is moving forward.

I recognise the good work done under the Industrial Relations (Amendment) Act 2015 which, to be fair, is good legislation. It is good to see it being brought more into use. The only concern I have - it is not to be negative in any way - is that we need to highlight the fact that whenever we talk about this sector, the issue of bogus self-employment does arise. I know that the Government is looking at this issue, but I urge it to take strong action. However, that is not to take away from the fact that this order represents real progress. This is a good day for workers and unions, as well as employers, because the order gives stability and provides for a level playing field which is particularly important in the context of seeking tenders.

I thank the Senator for his comments. I know that he has a strong background in this area. As he pointed out, the agreement is between employers and employees, which means that there is a good relationship between both parties and that more productive work can be done when they consent. I will bear his point about bogus self-employment in mind. I thank him for his comments.

I welcome the Minister and his team and congratulate them on good legislation. It is important that persons who are genuinely self-employed have some protections. We are taking a range of steps to address the issue. A self-employed individual may also be a small employer, but he or she has no protection once the business goes to the wall, having paid tax and made PRSI contributions for his or her employees. I know that is a slightly different point to make, but nonetheless it is very important. I welcome the Minister of State's work. He is absolutely right that if one has happy employees, one has productive employees.

I want to be associated with those words of appreciation for what the Minister of State has done.

That completes the committee's consideration of the Sectoral Employment Order (Mechanical Engineering Building Services Contracting Sector) 2018. I thank the Minister of State and his officials for attending. I congratulate the Minister of State on the real progress that has been made in the sector and the very positive way in which he addressed it.

I thank the Chairman. As usual, she is very positive.

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