Joint Committee on Education and Skills debate -
Tuesday, 7 Nov 2017

WorldSkills Competition 2017: Discussion

Chairman

We will move on to the next item on the agenda, engagement with Ireland's representatives at the WorldSkills Competition in Abu Dhabi. The purpose of this part of the meeting is to welcome the Irish team who represented Ireland at the WorldSkills competition in Abu Dhabi. They won seven medallions for excellence which is fantastic and an excellent achievement. Every one of the competitors should be very proud and I have no doubt that they and their colleges, families and workplaces are very proud.

We are very interested to hear about the witnesses' experiences as both apprentices and as competitors at the competition. On behalf of the committee, I would like to welcome Paul O'Toole, CEO of Seirbhísí Oideachais Leanúnaigh agus Scileanna, SOLAS, John Twohig, chairman of WorldSkills Ireland, and medallion winners, Eoin Shortall, Colum Farrelly, Gavin Lyne, Kevin Hough, Kathlyn Leahy and Aaron Ronan. I also welcome the following people who are in Public Gallery: Ray English, Dublin Institute of Technology, DIT, an official delegate to the WorldSkills and Donal Keys, chair of the DIT IrelandSkills organising committee, and Tim O'Halloran, Cork Institute of Technology, chair of CIT's IrelandSkills organising committee and WorldSkills expert in construction metalwork, and Michael Hourihan, head of the centre of craft studies.

Mr. Tim O'Halloran is the chair of the Cork Institute of Technology, CIT Ireland skills organising committee and WorldSkills expert in construction metalwork, and Mr. Michael Hourihan is the head of the Centre of Craft Studies at the CIT and skill completion manager for electrical installations at WorldSkills. Mr. Hourihan was here as a witness before, when the committee addressed the issue of the importance of apprenticeships and skills in further education.

I also welcome Nikki Gallagher, the director of communications and secretariat at SOLAS. We have engaged with Mr. Gallagher both as a witness and outside. He is doing a wonderful job. I also want to particularly welcome the other members of the Irish team which participated in the 2017 WorldSkills competition, namely David Donegan, Brendan Muldowney, Stephen Murray, Jane McSwiney, Sean Hogan, Gary Horgan, John Cassidy, Maria Walsh, Eimear Smith and Emma Kelly. You are all very welcome. I understand that you are going to have a reception with your family and friends afterwards. Thank you very much for the invitation to the committee to attend. I am sure one of us will be able to attend for a few minutes.

The format of this part of the meeting is as follows. I will invite you to make a brief opening statement. That will be followed by a short engagement with the members of the committee on any questions or comments that the members have. You will get the opportunity to reply.

Before we begin, there are some formalities that I need to get out of the way. I draw the attention of witnesses to the fact that by virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the committee. However, if they are directed by myself as Chair to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and they continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and they are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.

I wish to advise that any opening statements made to the committee will be published on the committee website after this meeting, and I remind committee members of the same.

I now call on Mr. Paul O'Toole, who will make the opening statement on behalf of SOLAS.

Mr. Paul O'Toole

Thank you, Chair. On behalf of SOLAS I would like to thank the committee for the opportunity to attend today, and in particular for your support for the team over the past few months. At the outset, I would like to congratulate the Chair of WorldSkills Ireland, Mr. John Twohig, the organising committee and in particular the team for their fantastic achievement at the WorldSkills Competition 2017 in Abu Dhabi. I wish to add that Mr. Twohig and the support team from the Cork Institute of Technology and the Education and Training Board go above and beyond in their support for the team. It is something very special to them, and they demonstrate that all of the time.

Mr. Twohig and the team members will speak to you in detail about the WorldSkills Competition itself. I would like to concentrate on how the WorldSkills Competition and the great ambassadors we have here today are helping to promote the standing of apprenticeship and traineeship. However, I would like to first mention the role of SOLAS and the relationship with the WorldSkills team.

SOLAS is a funder of the Irish WorldSkills team. The other organisations that contributed to the 2017 WorldSkills budget are the Dublin Institute of Technology, the Cork Institute of Technology, the Technological Higher Education Association, the Higher Education Authority and the Education and Training Boards. SOLAS is a member of the WorldSkills Ireland organising committee, and a member of SOLAS attended the competition as an official observer. As the committee will be aware, SOLAS has also provided communications support to the team.

As members will recall, when we met earlier this year to discuss apprenticeship, this committee emphasised a number of areas that should be addressed to support the development of apprenticeship in Ireland. These included running a promotional campaign through social media, expanding the range of apprenticeships and encouraging employers to participate in apprenticeship programmes. It is important to acknowledge that the vast majority of the WorldSkills team are apprentices and therefore employed. The team has received huge support from their respective employers throughout the competition. Without this support, the team would not have achieved the level of success it did.

A number of promotional activities for apprenticeship are under way. We have developed a central website called apprenticeship.ie which is a one-stop shop for information on apprenticeship. This has been welcomed by career guidance councillors in particular. We have been running a social media campaign across Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn and Instagram. Our WorldSkills team has featured extensively in this campaign.

The level of engagement has increased exponentially over recent months, particularly regarding any posts about the team. For example, the post announcing the results reached almost 100,000 people on Facebook alone.

I believe that in Ireland we are beginning to recognise the valuable career options that apprenticeships, traineeships, and further education and training can offer young people. It was encouraging to see these options feature prominently in discussions and commentary about the leaving certificate this year. This was also reflected in the level of media coverage for the team across national and local print, broadcast and online platforms, including RTÉ news. This not only built a bank of support for the team and recognised their fantastic achievement, it also created an opportunity to showcase Irish skills and contribute to the national dialogue about apprenticeships.

I will now hand over to Mr. Twohig and the team. I am sure the committee will find it fascinating and valuable to hear about their experience representing Ireland on the world stage.

Chairman

I thank Mr. O'Toole. I call Mr. Twohig.

Mr. John Twohig

Like Mr. O’Toole, I am delighted to be here with our fantastic competitors, who are worthy ambassadors at the WorldSkills Competition. I would like to provide a short overview of the steps that occur in Ireland ahead of every WorldSkills Competition and how our team is selected. The Department of Education and Skills introduced national and international skills competitions to Ireland in 1957. Ireland has participated in all competitions since, with approximately 20,000 apprentices and technicians participating. Since 1957, Ireland has hosted the competition twice, in Dublin in 1963 and in Cork in 1971.

The competitions were originally known as the National Apprentice Competitions but are now called WorldSkills Competitions. The WorldSkills Ireland Council runs 26 national competitions each year and the Irish WorldSkills team is selected from our national competitions. Competitors who take part in the WorldSkills Ireland and WorldSkills competitions are selected from their respective skills and trades, based on their competence and ability to complete test projects to the highest international standards, under pressure from fixed time schedules and requirements for precise dimensions and control. During the period from 1957 to 2017, 37 competitions have been held and we have sent a total of 698 competitors. Some 193 medals have been won; 61 gold, 53 silver and 79 bronze.

Up to 1961, the competing countries were mainly European, with the exception of Morocco in 1953 and 1955, which at that time was a north African Spanish protectorate. In 1962, Japan participated in the competition for the first time and the International Vocation Training Organisation, IVTO, now evolved into a world organisation. The organisation has grown over the years, and is now known as WorldSkills International. With a membership of 79 countries, it holds biennial skill competitions and is engaged in other skill promotion activities around the world.

Last year we were delighted to have 140 competitors from all over Ireland compete for the Department of Education and Skills silver medal in their respective skills. Institutes of technology and education and training boards facilitated this competition, along with the highly skilled competitors who represent the very best in Irish industry and education. A team of 14 competitors were chosen to compete in the 44th WorldSkills competition which was held in Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates from 14 to 19 October 2017. The competitors were selected from the 2016 and 2017 National Skills finalists. The selection process started in early 2017.

The team travelled to Abu Dhabi to showcase their skills and talents in the following areas: aircraft maintenance, automobile technology, beauty therapy, cabinetmaking, heavy vehicle maintenance, construction metal work, electrical installations, industrial control, joinery, plastering and dry wall systems, plastic die engineering, plumbing and heating, restaurant service, and welding. Each member of the Irish team, all of whom are under 25 years of age, has proven expertise in their chosen field, having competed against their peers to secure their places at the competition.

We were very proud to have the team come home with a total of seven medallions for excellence and a Best of Nation award. Medallions for excellence are awarded to those competitors who achieve above-average scores in their contest areas and the Best of Nation is awarded to the competitor who gains the highest points or highest medal in the team of their country or region.

Chairman

I thank Mr. Twohig. We will now go to the real VIPs. I will start with Mr. Eoin Shortall. Would he like to say a little bit about his own area and how he enjoyed it?

Mr. Eoin Shortall

I competed in welding. I really enjoyed it. It was a stressful few days when the competition was going on but we got to see what people from other countries were like and how they did things. I will remember it for the rest of my life. It was brilliant.

Chairman

Great. I thank Mr. Shortall.

Mr. Colum Farrelly

I competed in aircraft maintenance. I found the experience unbelievable. It was great meeting people from around the world. There were 15 other competitors in my field. It was a great achievement and I will definitely cherish it forever.

Chairman

Super. It was a mighty achievement for everyone. I compliment everyone on the beautiful uniforms. They are really lovely.

Mr. Gavin Lyne

I competed in automobile technology. The whole competition was an incredible experience, even the training. It was above industry-standard training for WorldSkills. We are trained to a very high level at our training colleges but to do WorldSkills training is something else again. It is going to be very beneficial in years to come.

Chairman

That is great. I thank Mr. Lyne.

Mr. Kevin Hough

I competed in electrical installations and, as my colleagues said, it was an amazing experience. It was great to go up against the best in the world and see how they do things and what they do differently in terms of standards. It will stay with me for life.

Chairman

Great. Thank you.

Ms Kathlyn Leahy

I competed in restaurant service. I found the experience was really good also. I thought that the training was good from the perspective that a lot of the skills that I had to train for are not used in industry anymore. It is really hard to see them practiced. It will always stand to me that I can demonstrate skills that many people cannot.

Chairman

Thank you.

Mr. Aaron Ronan

I competed in construction metalwork. For me the highlight was the training, which was great. I could never get it anywhere else. I might never train like that again. Going out there, seeing people from other countries and competing against world leaders in industry and keeping up with them was a great experience.

Chairman

Super. Thank you.

We are very proud of all your achievements and of the whole team that went out. It is good to get the feedback in terms of your experiences and that it is an experience that will stay with you for the rest of their lives. It is phenomenal to up one's skills and compete on a world stage. I was reading the newspaper this morning and I saw that Aisling Rock from Galway Mayo Institute of Technology, GMIT, was named European Young Chef on Monday in Barcelona. I think it is worth mentioning here. This committee has put a great deal of emphasis on the whole area of skills and apprenticeships. We are doing our best to encourage young people to take up those options. We wish the witnesses very well.

I call Deputy Martin.

Deputy Catherine Martin

I would like to say very well done on all the witnesses' achievements at the WorldSkills 2017. We are very fortunate to have such fine ambassadors like the witnesses show-casing their talents and skills on a world stage. I think the witnesses are doing fantastic work promoting apprenticeships and traineeships. I am curious to know whether the witnesses felt they got enough encouragement and support from career guidance counsellors in school in taking up apprenticeships. I would like to ask Ms Leahy what can be done to get more women involved. Perhaps the gentlemen might have something to say as well.

Mr O'Toole mentioned the need for social media promotion and I would like to congratulate him on the website apprenticeship.ie and the reach of 100,000 on Facebook. Well done on that. It is great to see the progress that is being made.

Chairman

We will go back to the witnesses when we have heard from the members. I call Deputy Madigan.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

I congratulate Mr. O'Toole, Mr. Twohig, Mr. Donal Keyes from Dublin Institute of Technology and the people from Cork Institute of Technology and the Higher Education Authority who helped the team. I will go home to my two sons and tell them all about the work done. It is incredible to see. I do not mind who answers this, but I would like to ask some questions on a personal level. What do the witnesses think they could have done better? What would they do differently? What did they learn from their competitors? The witnesses did incredibly well. Seven medallions for excellence is really incredible. From their personal experience, is there one thing they feel they could have thought of, or that they might have done differently?

Chairman

Thank you. I call Deputy McLoughlin.

Deputy Tony McLoughlin

Our witnesses are very welcome and I thank them for coming in here this evening. It is a wonderful honour for them to represent their country and to have done so well. I would like to ask a question and any one of the witnesses can answer. The training in advance of the finals was mentioned. How many other countries were the Irish team competing against?

Chairman

Thank you. I call Deputy Byrne.

Deputy Thomas Byrne

I am not going to ask questions. It is enough that the witnesses are here and that we recognise what they did. It is very important that they come to the Oireachtas. They probably know that means that the State, the Government and the Parliament is extremely proud of all of them, their mentors and staff and the work that they have done. The thing that we need to do as Members of the Dáil and the Seanad is ensure we get a lot more people into apprenticeships and traineeships, and learning skills. We must ensure that people see that as a viable opportunity, both in the types of craft skills our witnesses are involved in and in other types of apprenticeships that are coming on stream. I know that good work is being done, and we are going to have to do a whole lot more about it. The witnesses have demonstrated that we can be among the best in the world and that we can do these things not through the traditional educational system, but through the apprenticeship route. Someone asked one of my colleagues on a doorstep where apprenticeships have gone. People feel they are not as available. Our witnesses are showing that apprenticeships are available, that they are a real option for people, that learning skills is real, and that we can beat and be with the best in the world, so comhghairdeas. Sincere congratulations to all of the witnesses and I thank them for the example that they are setting. I know that some of them will be back here when they are running companies, or in other capacities in the future. They are not going to stay at the bottom rung; I am certain of that. They will be right at the top.

Chairman

That is well said. I noted that Ireland hosted the WorldSkills Competition in 1963 and 1979. I think it is about time that we hosted one again. I wonder if there are any plans to do that because, as my colleagues have said, the ambassadors we have here set an example. It is a great news story. We do not always have the opportunity to have good news stories in the Dáil or in this committee, so it is wonderful to be able to celebrate the witnesses' incredible achievements with them.

Regarding the questions that have been asked, I am happy to go back to any of the witnesses who may indicate. I know there was one particular one to Ms Leahy. We will not focus on her straightaway if she wants time to think about a response. If witnesses want to respond to any of the queries, I will call on them if they raise their hand. I call Mr. Farrelly.

Mr. Colum Farrelly

A member asked about promoting apprenticeships in schools. In my personal experience, apprenticeships were not promoted enough and education was very college-focused. However, many people do not get on so well in school, but they are very good with their hands. It is quite hard to promote the fact that doing an apprenticeship, one can excel at a craft with one's hands, as opposed to going to college and potentially dropping out. I did not even know the WorldSkills Competition existed until a couple of years ago, and I am not really a sporting person so I never thought I would be able to represent my country. It is very important to promote the WorldSkills Competition and apprenticeships early on in schools.

Chairman

Thank you.

Deputy Catherine Martin

As Deputy Byrne said, that is why we have to build on the witnesses' successes here and, as legislators, try to change things to make sure that every school is promoting apprenticeships and traineeships.

Chairman

Absolutely. Would any of the witnesses care to respond? I call Ms Leahy.

Ms Kathlyn Leahy

I went to an all-girls secondary school, so when it came to apprenticeships, they were at the bottom of the list of options. It was all about nursing, teaching and so on. When I was doing my leaving certificate, I spent a lot of time looking at the Central Applications Office form, because I knew exactly what I wanted to do. I wanted to study hospitality management no matter where I had to do it. I was going to do it and I was going to be good at it. It is hard for young people to make a decision about what they want to do at that stage in life, but doing something like an apprenticeship buys time. I am studying hospitality management, but I do not know what I am going to do when I finish college. However, it is very good to get the experiences that I have gotten from it. What one puts into it is what one gets out of it. It is definitely important to promote skills in schools for girls.

Chairman

Thank you. Would anyone else care to offer anything? I call Mr. Lyne.

Mr. Gavin Lyne

My two colleagues made a good point. I remember that when I was in school apprenticeships were not really an option. I remember when they went around the classroom, asking what we were planning to do-----

Deputy Thomas Byrne

When did Mr. Lyne finish school?

Mr. Gavin Lyne

I finished in 2014.

Deputy Thomas Byrne

So only three years ago.

Mr. Gavin Lyne

Yes. It is like five minutes ago. However, there was very little promotion in that sense. If one asked guidance counsellors or teachers about apprenticeships, they would shrug. I remember when a teacher went around the classroom asking what students were going to do, people mentioned courses and when it came to me, I said I was starting an apprenticeship in September. It was assumed that I would go to college, not start an apprenticeship.

Chairman

It is about parity of esteem as well, is it not? It is about ensuring apprenticeships and skills have parity of esteem to university courses.

Ms Kathlyn Leahy

There is a stigma around doing apprenticeships. If people knew about what we were doing, and the level we have got to in our trades, then maybe there would not be such a stigma around it, because one can see how far people can go in the trades. People think anyone can do that job, but that is not the case.

Chairman

Ms Gallagher does a really good job in communicating and informing us about the wonderful work that is going on, both in terms of the WorldSkills and with skills and apprenticeships. That is important as the message needs to go out. Thank you.

Would Mr. O'Toole or Mr. Twohig like to make any further comment?

Mr. John Twohig

In response to Deputy Martin's question on female participation, we brought out four additional experts who are judges when they get to WorldSkills with a view to expanding the range of skills that we would be taking next time, and certainly two of those, which would be visual merchandising and hairdressing, are more likely to be female competitors. One of our female competitors had a bus to catch unfortunately; she was going back to Kerry. There is female participation and we are working on getting more female participation.

In the new apprenticeship systems cooking is one of those and we brought out an expert in that to revive our interest in that competition. That could either be male or female because both compete in that competition.

Chairman

Thank you. I call Mr. O'Toole.

Mr. Paul O'Toole

I again thank the committee for inviting us in and giving us that support. To me, it is about what we value. If we recognise that people have different learning journeys and different capacities, and if we from the State side can recognise their potential and support them in the type of training or education that we offer, we will be doing a service to the young people. I had the privilege of seeing them off as they were heading to Abu Dhabi and the privilege of seeing them coming back here this evening. Any time an Irish team goes abroad, we celebrate, and we have celebrated this time as well. They were absolutely fantastic ambassadors for Ireland, and I think members have seen that today.

It has been a privilege for us to be associated with that.

Chairman

I appreciate that. I congratulate Eoin, Colum, Gavin, Kevin, Kathlyn, Aaron, Ciara, who is not with us at this point, David, Brendan, Stephen, Jame, Sean, Gary, John, Maria, Eimear and Emma. On behalf of the committee I thank all of you for your attendance at the meeting today to share your experience of competing in the competition as an apprentice. It is a very important message to give. This committee has consistently recognised the important role that those who undertake apprenticeship training have in ensuring the stability and growth of the Irish economy for the future. It is clear from the delegation before us that our apprentices are not only competing on a world stage but also succeeding. It is reassuring to see that our future is in such safe hands. Go raibh míle maith agaibh.

There is no further business. Members of the select committee will meet at 5 p.m. next Wednesday, 15 November 2017, to deal with the Technological Universities Bill 2015.

The joint committee adjourned at 6.45 p.m. until 4 p.m. on Tuesday, 21 November 2017.