JOINT COMMITTEE ON THE ENVIRONMENT, TRANSPORT, CULTURE AND THE GAELTACHT debate -
Tuesday, 29 Nov 2011

Scrutiny of EU Legislative Proposals on Railways: Discussion

Chairman

We will consider the European legislative proposals concerning railways and their impact on Ireland. I welcome Mr. Liam Daly, principal officer, and Ms Andrea Lennon, assistant principal, public transport division at the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport; Mr. Gerald Beesley, commissioner at the Railway Safety Commission; Ms Anne Graham, director of public transport services in the National Transport Authority; and from Íarnród Éireann, Mr. Dick Fearn, chief executive officer, Mr. Tom Finn, manager of the railway safety investment programme, and Mr. Barry Kenny, manager of corporate communications. I thank them for their attendance.

By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence you are to give this committee. If you are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence in relation to a particular matter and you continue to so do, you are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of your evidence. You are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and you are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, you should not criticise nor make charges against any person(s) or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I have a meeting at 4 p.m. and must excuse myself at 3.30 p.m. Another committee member will chair the meeting at that time. I call on Mr. Fearn.

Mr. Dick Fearn

I thank the committee for the invitation to address it this afternoon. Shortly, Mr. Daly, from the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport, will give members a comprehensive overview of the EU legislative packages relating to railways. I will outline how the legislative packages have been implemented in Íarnród Éireann and I will brief members on co-operation with Northern Ireland Railways, both at an operational level and with regard to EU legislative proposals.

There have been three railway packages to date concerning the EU regulation. The first package addressed liberalising the international freight market, separating functions within the railway and charging for access and licensing of railway undertakings. Iarnród Éireann had derogations from certain elements of the first railway package until 2013. Iarnród Éireann has complied with the remainder as follows. Separate profit and loss accounts have been published for infrastructure activities and railway operations activities for more than a decade and these have been further augmented in 2010 by separate balance sheets.

A track access charging regime was published on our website in January 2011 and a draft network statement has been prepared, in the event of other operators seeking access to the network. Iarnród Éireann made application for, and was granted, a licence as a railway undertaking, which is valid to 2015. No applications for capacity have been received to date from any external operators, freight or cross-Border passenger operations.

A second railway package was introduced, with the main provisions being the railway safety directive, formation of the European Rail Agency, interoperability and opening up the domestic freight market. Iarnród Éireann has implemented all elements of the second package as follows. The railway safety directive recommendations have been implemented and Iarnród Éireann has made successful application for a certificate as a railway undertaking and for authorisation as an infrastructure manager with relevant Part A and Part B certification, which is part of the process. Our safety management systems have been developed in accordance with the directive and common safety methods and common safety indicators have been developed in consultation with the Railway Safety Commission. Interoperability forms a part of EU rail policy and Iarnród Éireann, in consultation with the Railway Safety Commission, is preparing for conformity with the directive. National technical rules are being finalised and Iarnród Éireann standards are being aligned to conform to European rail standards.

The third railway package involved liberalising the international passenger market, certification of train drivers, introduction of rail passenger's rights and public service contracts. Iarnród Éireann has implemented all elements of this package. The international passenger market is open to competition and access charges have been published, as outlined earlier. The certification of train drivers will come into effect at end 2011, commencing with new cross-Border drivers. Iarnród Éireann's existing training and examination procedures are compliant with EU guidelines and discussions are well advanced with the Railway Safety Commission for the certification of Iarnród Éireann's training and examination functions. A register of drivers is being developed in conjunction with the Railway Safety Commission.

The rail passenger rights directive has been implemented for our cross-Border services and a derogation has been granted for domestic services. Iarnród Éireann has had a passenger charter for several years, with generous compensation measures in the event that we severely disrupt a journey. The directive is geared mainly towards long distance international services over multiple networks.

Public service contracts have been in place between larnród Éireann and the National Transport Authority since 2009. All passenger services are covered by the contract. The contract contains detailed performance and quality criteria which are reported quarterly to the National Transport Authority on our performance against those criteria.

larnród Éireann has been proactive in implementing EU railway legislation over the past decade, taking account of the derogations which have been granted to Ireland. The derogations reflect the fact that the Irish and Northern Irish networks have unique geographic and technical features which potentially limit opportunities for competition from elsewhere. More detailed consideration must be given to the most appropriate and cost-effective administrative-regulatory-structural model for the Irish rail market which would honour the spirit of the EU legislation. We are monitoring the recast proposals currently going through the Commission and European Parliament and are aware of the Commission plans for a fourth railway package. We are anticipating an end to the current derogations in 2013 and will work with the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport and other stakeholders in developing an appropriate commercial and structural model for the railway industry in Ireland, without the need to extend the derogation.

We have good co-operation with the authorities in the North. The Dublin-Belfast Enterprise service is an example of strong cross-Border partnership and co-operation which pre-dates the Good Friday Agreement. The work of both companies and the Irish and British Governments over a period of time led to the investment in the line, culminating in the launch of the modern Enterprise service which was introduced in 1997. This formed the foundation of the routine working relationship between larnród Éireann and Translink in jointly providing the Enterprise service to this day. The chief executive of Translink, Ms Catherine Mason, and I jointly attended the Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement in April 2010 where we discussed openly with that committee our joint approach to the cross-Border service.

We operate eight services each way daily, with six each way on a Sunday. The service is jointly operated, maintained and co-ordinated by the two companies. The rolling stock fleet is 50% owned by larnród Éireann and 50% by Translink, and trains are crewed accordingly. Maintenance is organised in a specific way, with locomotive maintenance undertaken by larnród Éireann and carriage maintenance undertaken by Translink. As befits a jointly owned and jointly branded service, we have regular liaison meetings to discuss service levels, strategy, safety operations, fleet engineering, infrastructure and so on.

The service is marketed in each jurisdiction by the relevant company. We market the service here while Northern Ireland Railways market the service in the North. A joint railway rule book, that is, the safety operational standards, has established common safety standards across the route. Therefore, we operate to exactly the same operational standards. The service must continue to develop to meet the competitive challenges and provide the level of service our customers and potential customers deserve.

Both companies aspire to providing an hourly service on the route. Experience has shown on other intercity routes that a regular interval service - such as the Dublin-Cork hourly, or Dublin-Sligo from three trains per day to every two hours - generates additional patronage. Translink and larnród Éireann are committed to progressing plans for an hourly service and are confident this can be delivered in due course. We hope to secure the support needed to confirm a timescale for these proposals in the near future.

With regard to EU regulations, there is continuous dialogue between Iarnród Éireann and Translink regarding compliance with the railway packages, notwithstanding the derogations which both jurisdictions have in place until 2013. An application process has commenced for what is known as Part B certification which is part of the railway safety directive. This will formalise existing arrangements to allow operations in each other's jurisdiction in compliance with the directive.

There is an existing cross-Border commercial agreement covering revenue and cost sharing. Translink has yet to publish fees for access charging for the Northern Ireland network. However, when the charging regime is established and agreed on both sides, these will be applied as part of the commercial agreement.

I thank the Chairman and members of the committee for the opportunity to set out the position and I will be glad to deal with any questions.

Chairman

Is there another speaker?

Mr. Liam Daly

I welcome the opportunity to brief the committee on current and forthcoming EU railway legislation and to discuss its impact on the Irish railway. I am accompanied by my colleague, Ms Andrea Lennon, assistant principal, public transport division, Mr. Gerald Beesley, commissioner for the Railway Safety Commission, and Ms Anne Graham, director of public transport services in the National Transport Authority.

To assist the committee, the Department has prepared a briefing note on the relevant legislation and its effect on us. We have also included annexes to the briefing document setting out the legislation concerned and the resulting secondary legislation that transposes the EU legislation.

The three railway legislative packages are a substantial body of legislation dealing with a wide range of rail matters: market access and competition, safety, interoperability and consumer protection. They are designed to revitalise the EU railways through the encouragement of competition in passenger and freight services, where possible. They also set out a framework for a harmonised approach to rail safety in the EU. There is also a focus on improved interoperability, or technical compatibility, of infrastructure, rolling stock, signalling and other rail systems in order to create an internal market in the construction, operation and renewal of rail infrastructure and rolling stock. Consumer protection is furthered through a regulation on rail passenger rights and obligations that came into force on 3 December 2009.

In the case of rail market access and competition, the EU rail market for freight transport was completely opened since 2007 and for international passenger services since January 2010. The EU legislation is based on a distinction between infrastructure managers who run the rail network and the rail companies, known as undertakings, that use it for passenger and freight services. Essential functions such as allocation of rail capacity, that is, the train paths that companies need to be able to operate trains on the network, and the setting of infrastructure charges must be separated from the operation of transport services and carried out impartially.

There is also a requirement that EU member states must also have a regulatory body to police rail markets and to act as an appeal body for rail companies if they believe they have been unfairly treated. Uniquely, Ireland has benefited from a derogation negotiated a decade ago which removed the requirement to establish a separate body that allocated access to the network and determined access charges. It also set aside the obligation to appoint an independent regulator who would ensure fair and equitable access and deal with appeals by rail operators who believe they have been unfairly treated. Our negotiators highlighted the special characteristics of the Irish network - its small size and isolation from the rest of the Community - which were seen as barriers to the development of real competition. The current derogation runs until 14 March 2013.

Taking account of the evolution of the liberalisation of the EU rail market in the last decade, consultation with the European Commission, as well as the proposed opening up of the domestic rail market, the Department must plan for the ending of the current derogation in March 2013. Most significantly, this will require a restructuring of Iarnród Éireann. The regulatory impact assessment of the various options for the railways will have to be explored based on consultation with all stakeholders, including Iarnród Éireann. Independent regulatory structures must also be decided upon. Ultimately, decisions will be required at Government level on the new approach and new legislation needed to implement the changes.

Under the Rail Safety Act 2005 and the relevant EU directives, the Railway Safety Commission is working within a framework that applies across the European Union. The Railway Accident Investigation Unit, a functionally independent unit within the commission, investigates and reports on all serious railway accidents and incidents. We have fully updated our legislation on interoperability in line with EU requirements and the commission has a key role in overseeing the application of standards in the State. The briefing note also informs the committee about Regulation (EC) No. 1371/2007 on rail passenger rights and obligations. The NTA is the enforcement authority and deals with complaints about breaches of the regulation.

Co-operation with the authorities in Northern Ireland on rail matters is an important priority of the Department and agencies. Many of the areas in which there is co-operation are mentioned in the briefing note. The agenda for the North-South Ministerial Council includes an update on sectoral meetings and the Dublin to Belfast rail service is a regular item for discussion. Exchanges of views on rail network matters, including EU developments, with colleagues in the Department of Regional Development in Northern Ireland are a feature of that good co-operation.

I thank the Chairman and members of the committee. My colleagues and I will be glad to deal with any questions members may have.

Chairman

Before I bring in members of the committee, I would like to put some questions to the delegation. The derogation will come to an end in 2013. What plans are in place for a consultation process because both Iarnród Éireann and Northern Ireland Railways are major entities which provide public transport services? Not just the agencies of the two rail networks and the associated bodies but the general public who use them should be consulted. Is there a health and safety certification process for drivers on both sides of the Border? Will complaint processes be brought under the umbrella of a single authority in order that if I travel on the Dublin to Belfast line, it will not matter which company owns the train, that if I complain, I will be making a complaint to a single entity?

On the regulation regarding rail passengers' rights and obligations, how is the Department meeting the targets for missed connections? Can passengers be reimbursed or seek an alternative ticket at the station or do they have to go through a bureaucratic system? What about cancellations? How is Iarnród Éireann dealing with disability and reduced mobility issues? The Cork to Dublin rail line service has been a huge success, with set times for departures, meaning passengers are confident about using it. It is very popular and I use it myself. One of the difficulties, however, is that the platforms in Kent Station are of an earlier design which for those with disabilities, means getting on and off a train presents a huge problem. While we see a massive improvement in the rail stock being used, sometimes the stations are from a different era.

Mr. Dick Fearn

The ending of the derogation will have no direct effect on passengers and will not interfere with the Enterprise or any other service. We will go through some restructuring during 2012 to get ready for the ending of the derogation because we must clearly separate the activity of providing infrastructure and access to it from the operation of our trains as in the future other organisations might seek access to the railways. However, March 2013 will see a seamless transition.

One of the points about the legislation dealing with driver certification is that it is needed to bring consistency to driver standards. We have a process of certification for our systems of training and education with the Railway Safety Commission; Northern Ireland Railways must achieve the same standards with its safety regulator. The good thing is that we have been working with Northern Ireland Railways for many years on cross-Border operations and drivers are competent on both sides. When a person boards a train from Belfast to Dublin or Dublin to Belfast, he or she will not know whether the driver is from Northern Ireland Railways or Iarnród Éireann. The systems are compatible.

The purpose of the legislation dealing with complaints and customers' rights is to ensure consistency between EU rail companies in how they handle complaints. There are differences between companies, but we have had in place for some time a charter that provides for generous recompense for people with a genuine reason to complain that they have not had access to the service for which they believe they have paid. We cannot do cash refunds at the booking office because we need to do some follow-up work and, in fairness to the ticket clerk at the booking office, he or she would not have at his or her fingertips all of the information necessary. We do, however, try to speed up the process compared to how it used to be. Many passengers now book with us online and when we deal with an online complaint, if there is to be recompense, we can very quickly make credit or debit card refunds on online fares. Automatic refunds to these accounts are much quicker than using the old-fashioned method involving the use of mail. We are constantly looking at ways to improve our response.

Chairman

Does the passenger receive the €2 credit card charge back?

Mr. Dick Fearn

Yes. If we have really messed someone up, we will make a complete refund of everything paid us. If part of the journey was successful and part of it was not, we would agree a partial refund, about which often passengers will be reasonable. We are in no way, however, trying to undercut anything stated in the European directive. If anything, we would like to exceed it. One of the reasons, in line with many other companies across Europe, we have a temporary derogation in the domestic market is we are carefully going through all of the details of our own charter to ensure we are 100% compliant and that we exceed the standards set. We are not trying to cut short the system.

The Chairman asked about accessibility. At a lot of stations across the network we have invested money in raising platforms and installing lifts to improve accessibility. We have many stations across the network that are very good in terms of accessibility. There are just two really difficult platforms across the network, one of them being the main platform at Kent Station in Cork. It is very difficult because it is on a sharp curve. Modern trains have long carriages and where there is both a curve and a straight line, it is a matter of basic geometry to observe there will be gaps near the doors. Similarly, on platform 5 at Connolly Station, there is quite a sharp curve and we have difficulties there. They are both busy platforms we cannot avoid using. Since we do not have an engineering solution to it at the moment, we have tried to improve the situation with signage and announcements stating: "Be careful of the gap" and so on. Both of those stations, Kent Station in Cork and Connolly Station in Dublin, are well staffed stations, so we can assist people, in particular if they advise us in advance that they have wheelchairs or a mobility impairment.

In due course, we may be able to find a technical solution. In some railway stations in Europe, when trains come in to certain platforms, there are automatic extending footboards and so on. However, the solution is not just to raise the platform up because then it would catch on the side of the trains. That would not be an appropriate thing to do. It will involve a technical solution in due course but in the meantime, we will do everything we can to assist passengers at the platforms concerned. It is only those two in the whole network.

Deputy Seán Kenny

I welcome the delegations from Irish Rail and the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport. I would like to ask a question of Mr. Liam Daly which relates to the interoperability and the ending of the derogation in 2013. Is it practical to seek to end that derogation? Should we not seek to try to extend it because this is an island which does not have a direct connection to the rest of the EU, unlike the UK which has the Channel Tunnel and its trains can travel to Europe? We are out on a limb in regard to access.

The report states there is a low probability of any other EU railway undertaking seeking to compete in the Irish market. Mr. Daly also said that if the derogation ended, we would have to set up regulatory structures and there would be all sorts of other administrative procedures. Is it feasible or practical to do that given that we are in a unique situation in the EU in that we do not have a rail or a land connection to the rest of the EU? I would like to hear Mr. Daly's views on that.

The cross-Border service is the only EU dimension we have on this island. I agree with Irish Rail that it is working well, although I would like to see the frequency of the service improved as, I think, would everybody else. I got an e-mail a month or two ago from somebody in Coleraine or Magherafelt which drew attention to some report in Northern Ireland that Northern Ireland Railways intends to close part of the railway line between Belfast and Derry. It would not go all the way to Derry, although I forget where it would stop. The person pointed out that it had a cross-Border connection because people travelled to north Donegal, or at least they used to do so, by going from Dublin to Belfast and getting a train from Belfast to Derry. In the past, certain freight used that line. Is that a possibility? I do not know whether it is a question for the Department or Irish Rail. Are there plans in Northern Ireland to close part of the Belfast to Derry line?

There is also the question of Northern Ireland Railways itself. It is the only publicly owned railway in the United Kingdom. The rest of the rail services were privatised a long time ago. I am not sure if they were the best models to follow. The Government in the UK has been talking about the possibility of privatising Northern Ireland Railways. If that came about and if some other EU railway undertaking was to purchase it or lease it, then one might face a totally different situation. That operator might want access to run trains from Belfast to Cork or from Belfast to Limerick. Are there contingency plans to deal with that situation if it arises?

Chairman

There will be plenty of opportunities for the Deputy to come back in if he so wishes.

Mr. Liam Daly

The Deputy was quite right in regard to the derogation. When the original derogation was negotiated, it took account of the fact that the isolated nature of our network was such that it was difficult, as our negotiator was able to explain, to justify the full apparatus of regulation envisaged under the legislation and for that reason, we were able to secure the derogation. However, events have moved on since then. The liberalisation agenda vis-à-vis the rail market in Europe has gathered pace. As a result of that, the Commission has become more anxious to ensure uniformity of approach right across the EU, in particular in regard to accounting, separation and transparency and showing in all the networks that if market access is required by either a freight operator or a passenger operator, it can be given. We did not get a full derogation from all the packages, we only got a partial derogation. It was a halfway house.

The mood in regard to that derogation and in particular other developments being developed which would involve, for example, liberalisation of the domestic rail market in all member states, means that our derogation would really be difficult to sustain.

The Department and Iarnród Éireann are now recognising the pragmatic reality that the regulatory thinking has evolved and the attitude within the rest of Europe has moved on. We can, without too much bureaucratic oversight, develop a system, or work within the system, whereby we can show a transparent operation of passenger services and infrastructural services in line with the requirements of the directives, both the existing directives and the proposed recast directive which we dealt with in the briefing note.

In those circumstances, both Mr. Fearn, as chief executive, and the Department, in the position of the policymaker, can now look to new structures, on which we would consult with all interested parties, to meet the requirements of the directive without having the derogation we have enjoyed until now.

I suggest that Mr. Fearn might give some more information on the whole question of the cross-Border situation and the Belfast-Derry line.

Mr. Dick Fearn

The Belfast-Derry situation has changed. Northern Ireland Railways has advised us fully on what is happening there. It had difficulties with sections of that line and it clearly needed re-investment. At one stage, there did not seem to be the possibility of that happening but that has changed. A significant investment has just been announced for the improvement of the line between Coleraine and Derry, the section of concern. It very much intends to improve, modernise and develop the Derry line rather than withdraw from it, which is a very good thing. It obviously facilitates those people from the northern end of Donegal who would perhaps use the train service from Derry and it potentially will create additional cross-Border business for both our benefits.

We all want to see more people on the rail both North and South of the Border and Northern Ireland Railways' investment, which is similar to the sort of investments we have enjoyed over the past ten years in improving parts of our network, is to be welcomed. In due course, I am sure that as part of whatever services develop out of that, further enhancement of cross-Border business will follow.

Regarding the final question on third party operators entering the market and trying to operate all the way from Derry to Cork, we will deal with that matter if it arises. Part of the EU regulations is the need to facilitate access, but we will not wait for it to happen. We are endeavouring to work jointly with Northern Ireland Railways to improve our services in order that we can serve the market as well as anyone else who enters it. We will not sit back and wait for someone to do our job for us; we are determined to do it well.

Chairman

I call Deputy Nash who will be followed by Deputies Ellis and McLoughlin. I will vacate the Chair shortly.

Deputy Gerald Nash

When the derogation expires in March 2013, to what benefits or improvements can rail users look forward not already available through Irish Rail's framework? What is Iarnród Éireann doing to engage in a process of proactive consultation with rail users as part of its implementation work post-March 2013? Is there a formal rail users network with which the company engages in a constructive fashion? People make individual complaints and access the company's complaints service. What process does Iarnród Éireann wish to roll out?

Reference was made to the excellent Enterprise service which I use regularly. The services from Drogheda and Dundalk are considered useful. The aspiration to have an hourly service was mentioned. When is this aspiration expected to be delivered on in connection with Northern Ireland Railways?

In the second last paragraph of Mr. Fearn's contribution he refers to the fact that there is a cross-Border commercial agreement covering the issues of revenue sharing and cost sharing. Translink has not published fees for accessing the Northern Ireland network. Mr. Fearn has stated that when the charging regime is agreed to and published, charges will be applied to a joint Dublin-Belfast service and shared as part of the commercial agreement. What are the cost implications for rail users?

My final point is directed towards Mr. Daly and the Department. Does he have any reason to anticipate that external rail operators not already active in this country will express an interest in getting involved in the provision of rail services here? It is probably unlikely, given the unique circumstances on the island of Ireland, but what measures has the Department taken in anticipation of there being external involvement in the rail network?

Mr. Liam Daly

I will answer the last question. No one has sought access. We can speculate forever, but we will only know whether there is interest when someone submits an application. Given the size of the market, the perception is that there is not a considerable amount of interest. From time to time there are background rumblings about some parties possibly being interested in running freight services. In the current economic climate, however, this might be less interesting. To date, no one has tabled a proposal.

Mr. Dick Fearn

I will address a few of the issues raised. As to whether customers will see benefits following the expiry of the derogation, we cannot overstress that it has not affected the way in which we have been operating. It is not as if we have been unable to do something because of the derogation or that we will be able to do something immediately upon its expiration. Rather, it is about not applying the full apparatus of the EU agreements designed for cross-border travel on the Continent. As Mr. Daly emphasised, it is only a partial derogation. Had someone come along in the meantime and asked for access to the network and information on our charges, it would have fallen and we would have needed to provide what was being sought. However, no one has asked.

We are moving to the next phase. With our partners in the North, we will have in place a process with access charges and a separation of our infrastructure management from our operations management to ensure we will be fully compliant. No one using our services in March 2013 will notice any change.

The Deputy asked about access charges. Fortunately, the Border is roughly half way between Dublin and Belfast and the length of the route's infrastructure in the North in mileage terms is approximately the same as that in the South. We have an equitable system under which we split costs and revenues on that basis. We have not yet seen NIR's figures, but we envisage that the access charges which represent the marginal cost of extra services on the route will not be dissimilar. That a system has been put in place by the two existing partners means any third party will not be treated differently. A process would be put in place in due course. However, as Mr. Daly stated, no one has yet knocked on the door. If anyone does, a system will be in place. This will not directly affect customers immediately.

I will make one further point about hourly services, after which I will ask Mr. Kenny to discuss the rail users network, a collection of groups which consult us on services. The introduction of an hourly service on the Belfast-Dublin route is something to which we must aspire. Belfast is the second largest city on the island of Ireland after Dublin and there is a large population to be served all along the corridor. If we could increase the frequency of services, there would be more business to gain. Until recently, the problem has been the availability of rolling stock. As all of the Enterprise service stock available to us is used on a two-hourly basis, we could not have decided in recent years to provide the service on an hourly basis. However, Iarnród Éireann has enhanced its rolling stock fleet considerably through the introduction of new intercity rail cars and so on and we now have the capability to add further trains to the network. When one introduces a new rail service, costs initially increase more quickly than revenue. There are extra staffing, fuel consumption and maintenance costs from day one and they increase immediately. It takes time for revenue to grow and catch up. The enhancement of the service would need some financial support initially, although perhaps not in the long term. This is a problem, as it is difficult for the Governments on both sides of the Border to provide an extra operating subvention for the network. However, we have a good business plan and have been working jointly with our colleagues in the North. I hope we can launch our plan in the not too distant future. We are holding onto that aspiration.

I invite Mr. Kenny to address the points made on the rail users' network.

Mr. Barry Kenny

As well as the wider point on consultation. We consult customers individually, as well as those who organise at a local and national level. This year we were delighted to introduce a new initiative. There is a facility whereby we can put our website proposed draft schedules. We did this in two phases for Heuston and Connolly stations and invited responses over a period of four weeks. We get more ad hoc feedback throughout the year but we put our proposal up online and invited feedback on the forthcoming schedule changes. Arising from the feedback in both phases, we were able to make some changes. There are physical limitations due to fleet size, availability and other resources but it was a good process that flushed out some issues the initial draft schedule did not address. Those issues that cannot be addressed at that stage can be retained for future schedule revisions as well. It is an effective process and one that will continue. All schedule changes are then subject to the approval of the National Transport Authority under the public service contracts.

In a number of areas we have commuter groups that organise on a local level and we are happy to deal with them. We had a very active Drogheda user group for a time, although it is not quite so active now. Rail Users Ireland does not have formal status but engages with us on passenger issues and has been very helpful in some new initiatives related to website development and sales, smartcard development and integrated ticketing.

It is always best for customers to decide these things. Whether they feel it better to address matters with us individually or collectively, we are happy to deal with whatever process they take.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

I thank the Department and the delegation from Iarnród Éireann for their presentations. When I see the EU intervene, I am worried about the opening up of the market and competition. In my mind I would not think anyone could compete with Iarnród Éireann but I would be worried that someone else could secure transport or freight services. There are issues related to freight. I found it hard to grasp some of the figures for passenger data and I would like to see figures for both passengers and freight. In recent years huge motorways were built and they have had an effect on rail services, particularly the service to Belfast.

The EU is looking at health and safety issues. There are many hand operated gates, such as Campbell's Bridge, which are a nightmare for people and for Iarnród Éireann. Are those issues being looked as part of the derogation? I assume they would be.

I am not sure of the speed limits. What does the EU say about this? There has been massive improvement since lines were electrified. Ticket integration was also mentioned. Has it been considered by Dublin Bus, Luas and Iarnród Éireann? Is that all part of the hop-on, hop-off system. We have been doing it with Dublin Bus and Luas but what is Iarnród Éireann doing? I assume Iarnród Éireann has an emergency plan in case anything goes wrong. Do we meet EU standards in this area? Does it feed into the greater Dublin emergency plan?

We cannot link up to the European mainland but we have large cities that need a greater link. We only go so far and no further in the north-west. Are we looking at those areas? Is the EU saying all main cities should be linked up in some way or is that down to Iarnród Éireann's own initiative and the available funding?

Deputy Gerald Nash took the Chair.

Mr. Dick Fearn

Many of the areas Deputy Ellis mentioned are not related to the EU legislation, although they are related to our efforts and capital programmes. He mentioned the old-fashioned manual level crossings and the need to modernise them. We have done a lot and there are many of them to do. They are a critical part of the programme. Some of them are related to our railway safety investment programme. Others are not related to the safety programme but to improving efficiency. The EU legislation and derogation do not affect those.

Our maximum line speed is 160 km/h, 100 mph. There are a few sections of the mainline where we operate at up to 160 km/h every day. More typically many of our regional routes would be at 70 mph to 90 mph. Interestingly, a White Paper is being considered by the Commission that talks about improving line speeds between major centres. There is no doubt that the Deputy's first point about motorway improvements is true. Roads are more competitive now. Previously it took much longer to drive to a place than to take the train and that is no longer the case. We must fight back on that and on routes like Dublin to Belfast, Dublin to Cork and Dublin to Galway, we want to reduce journey time significantly. One way to do that is to increase the line speed. All the rolling stock purchased in recent years is capable of 100 mph and so if we could do that speed throughout most of our routes, we would have quicker journey times. That is one of our aspirations as and when capital funding becomes available.

We are very much part of the integrated ticketing system with the Luas and Dublin Bus. It will be launched soon and there are currently around 1,000 using test cards. It is called the leap card and works on the DART, commuter railways, Dublin Bus and the Luas. The ease of interchange is partly to do with the main hubs like Heuston and Connolly having facilities for trams and buses but the other simple thing is being able to use one card for all of them.

Mr. Liam Daly

The EU legislation we mentioned will ultimately have the effect across the EU of promoting innovative services and competition. It looks at the broader European market where very busy rail services operate within Britain and on the Continent. That market has been the focus of the Commission's attention relating to both freight and passenger traffic. The opening up of the domestic market is proposed in the future. It will potentially be a proposal in 2012. In regard to safety, I confirm that the derogation mentioned does not apply to safety standards because the standards that apply right across the EU apply here, too.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Gerald Nash)

Does Mr. Beesley wish to speak?

Mr. Gerald Beesley

I confirm what Mr. Daly said in regard to safety. The safety certification of Iarnród Éireann, both as an infrastructure manager and as a railway undertaking-operator, has been carried out in absolute conformity with the common safety methods laid down across Europe. We have no escape, so to speak, from that regime and we will move forward on it. Even if a third party ventured to join the Iarnród Éireann infrastructure it would be subject to exactly the same regime.

In regard to emergency planning, Iarnród Éireann is required, as part of that safety certification and within its safety management systems, to demonstrate exactly how its emergency planning arrangements work. For example, in central train control in Connolly Station, hotlines are in place to the three emergency response locations throughout the State. If there is a big rail emergency, everything can swing into action through the formal channels already in place.

Deputy Tony McLoughlin

I welcome all the representatives from the Department and Irish Rail. Mr. Fearn put a great deal of emphasis on the rail network between Belfast and Dublin, Dublin and Cork, and Dublin and Galway. I represent a constituency in County Sligo. Great improvements have been made in that region and I compliment everybody associated with the services in Sligo and the rolling stock which has been put in place. What are the future plans for the route? Problems still occur occasionally and I hear complaints. Travel time between Dublin and Sligo is roughly three hours. Are there any plans to make a reduction in that time?

I refer to general costs. Mr. Fearn explained in great detail the derogation and other points. What will the cost structure be? What is the percentage of freight business on the route? There have been breakdowns on occasions which cause considerable discomfort for many people. Are all the works completed along the route? There were major issues for many years.

I have received complaints about car parking at the Sligo station and accessibility to the station. There is great difficulty in that regard. Work has been carried out recently to improve the rear area of the station. Perhaps Mr. Fearn might give me a brief on what is happening and the plans for the future of that route.

Mr. Dick Fearn

The Sligo line has been very successful. At one time it was described as the Cinderella of the network but it has changed radically.

Deputy Tony McLoughlin

There was a plan to close it some years ago.

Mr. Dick Fearn

That was before my time. I will not claim responsibility for it. In the eight years I have worked with Iarnród Éireann there has been a steady and continuous process of improvement on the Sligo route, in the first place on infrastructure. The track work has been completed, the last big piece of infrastructure being the Drumsna viaduct or bridge over the River Shannon. The basic infrastructure of the Sligo line is very modern. There is modern, computerised, centrally controlled signalling. All the old signal cabins are finished and even though some are still standing as pieces of heritage, they no longer provide any physical work. The track is modern and there are other infrastructural improvements.

Line speed can be further improved. I mentioned this point in connection with other lines and exactly the same applies to the Sligo line. We would love to be able to get the full capacity out of the new trains on the route. The modern new trains on the Sligo line are capable of doing 160 km/h. However, the route infrastructure would need further work because of curvature and canting, all that sort of stuff, in order to enable us to reach that full speed. Sections are now operating at 90 km/h, others at 70 km/h. Ultimately, we want to reach speeds of 100 km/h.

The communities on this route are individually significant. All contribute passengers to the line and therefore I do not foresee a day when we will run a non-stop train all the way from Sligo. I do not think that would be right as it would deprive significant communities along the line, such as Boyle, Carrick-on-Shannon, Mullingar and Longford, which all need the service as much as Sligo does. It will always be the type of route that has many stops. However, by improving the speeds between the stops, obviously journey time can be reduced.

Liability is now very high. Things do happen on the railway from day to day although not many now involve technical breakdown. The current punctuality of that route, in 2011, is 94%. That is a very high level of trains arriving on time. It is one of our most punctual routes. Bearing in mind that long sections of the route are single track where trains must pass singly, it must be working really well to achieve those figures. Otherwise trains would have to wait for others to pass.

Freight does not feature much at present on the Sligo line. We can and do run freight from time to time. Coillte has forwarded timber from Sligo to the pulp mill in Waterford, but that is not currently happening. Instead the timber goes from Ballina to Waterford. When Coillte wants the train to go from Sligo we can facilitate that. However, at present the line is a passenger-only railway.

Between Maynooth and Dublin the Sligo trains compete for space with the Maynooth commuter line trains. In addition, commuter trains now come from Dunboyne and join the line at Clonsilla. Thus, while the Sligo trains have the route to themselves for most of the journey, as they approach Dublin, particularly in the peak period, there are capacity issues. That will always have a marginal effect on the Sligo trains. If a train gets behind another that stops at all stations from Maynooth to Connolly, obviously it must take its turn.

The line is back as a very important piece of our network. We have made a number of improvements to stations. Car parking is always an issue and we are never slow in trying to deal with it. If car parking congestion arises, we will make further extensions because we do not want to dissuade people from using the train because they cannot park their cars.

Given all that, we are very pleased. In this recession we have seen a number of our routes struggle to maintain their passenger number levels but that has not been the case with the Sligo line. It has held up really well and long may it continue to do so. If we can deliver those journey time reductions through speed improvements in the future, we will.

Senator Denis Landy

My questions are for Mr. Fearn. First, I compliment him for his fingertips knowledge of the infrastructure. I knew only one person in a similar situation who had more information, namely, Michael Tobin, the former chief executive officer of the NRA. He could tell every signpost on every national primary route in the country and which ones had been knocked down the preceding weekend. It is very good to have a person attending who is on top of his brief and knows exactly what he is talking about.

I come now to the sting in the tail. I come from Carrick-on-Suir in the south east, where the railway route is the Limerick Junction-Waterford route. As Mr. Fearn knows, the route used to go as far as Rosslare. I have some questions about the route and its projected future. Currently, it is used mainly as a commuter route and, as Mr. Fearn noted, sometimes for freight traffic that goes to Medite or Louisiana-Pacific in Waterford. There are difficulties with the existing line. It is a commuter line and is under-utilised. I could safely say it is running at a loss for Iarnród Éireann. I compliment Iarnród Éireann on persevering to keep the line open and running. It has tried a number of initiatives to get more passenger traffic on the line but there are difficulties, the first of which concerns the speed limit on the line. One cannot exceed 40 mph at present. What work is ongoing and needs to be done to raise the speed limit? I acknowledge some work is being done on the line and I am aware of the constraints Iarnród Éireann is under in keeping the line clear.

There is a lack of service promotion regarding the line, and also a lack of connectivity. The delegates may tell me there is connectivity. There is some, but if I leave my house in Carrick-on-Suir to go to Dublin via Limerick Junction, it would take me nearly four and a half hours. If I leave my house and drive to Waterford, it will take 20 minutes to do so. From there, I can get to Dublin in two hours on the fast train. A four and a half hour journey is not really feasible for those who believe time is money. They just cannot afford to spend that amount of time travelling. Has Iarnród Éireann any proposals on this difficulty?

With regard to connectivity and the service in question, there is a great opportunity for people coming from south Tipperary to work in Waterford. I did so myself for approximately eight years. I actually drove to Waterford because if I got the train, I would have had to get off at Plunkett Station and face the elements, over the course of a mile to a mile and a half, across Rice Bridge and down along the quays. There is no bus link to the city or the main hubs, such as Waterford Institute of Technology, Waterford Regional Hospital, etc. I have been raising this issue at town and county council levels for the past ten to 15 years. Nobody seems to have managed to join up the thinking and provide the desired service.

At Carrick-on-Suir railway station, there is a railway crossing affected by a staffing issue. The crossing is closed at times for 15 to 20 minutes. I am sure Mr. Fearn is aware of this because I have highlighted it on local radio and in other media. We got an agreement from Iarnród Éireann in 2007 that the staffing level would be sufficient, for approximately 85% of the time, to ensure the person dealing with the signal would not be the person who must come back and open the gate. This has changed. Owing to staff changes, there is now a delay of 15 to 20 minutes again. This is in an area that is highly populated, and emergency services cannot cross the line in an emergency.

We had the tall ships in Waterford some months ago, in June or July. The number of people who travelled by train from south Tipperary to Waterford for that event was phenomenal. There was a linking up of buses from the station to the city. Children who had never been on trains in their lives actually travelled by train. I met many of the parents and noted the excitement and joy when the system worked properly. I wold love to see it working properly. I would like Mr. Fearn to address those issues.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Gerald Nash)

I will be understanding if Mr. Fearn does not have all the information requested at his fingertips, despite Senator Landy's statement at the outset. If not, he might forward it to the Senator in due course.

Mr. Dick Fearn

There are a few points I would like to make and they may be of benefit to all members, not just Senator Landy. The Waterford-Limerick Junction line is one of those that we currently class as lightly used. It has struggled in recent years because of the loss of the sugar beet business. Beet used to come from Wellingtonbridge in south County Wexford and it was transported through Carrick-on-Suir, up to Limerick Junction and down to the sugar beet factory in Mallow. That was a big seasonal campaign from the early autumn into the winter. It was great business for us. We did a very good job of it. Ironically, in the very last year of sugar beet production in Ireland, we carried more than in previous years for a generation. It was great business for us and it helped sustain the railway. The passenger service could be provided in addition. There was a big cash injection for the route because of the beet traffic, but then, at a stroke, it was gone. This has left the Waterford-Limerick Junction line exposed to the extent that it now only has a residual passenger service.

We have tried, systematically and slowly, to improve the infrastructure with the relatively limited funding available. We address any safety issue that arises straight away. We do not operate on a track that is unsafe. To go further incrementally and improve track speed costs money, which we just have not got considering the current funding constraints. The Senator is correct that we are running a 40 mph railway. In places, there are further restrictions, with a consequent lowering of the speed limit to 25 mph. It is a difficult railway to operate at present and it has very low revenue and limited funds available. However, we have tried all sorts of initiatives to try to increase revenue.

I am delighted Senator Landy mentioned the tall ships. We made an effort in that regard. We had indications that people would be visiting the ships in large numbers and we tried to play our part. Our strategy worked. If the kind of co-ordination that occurred at that event could continue for normal services in Waterford, perhaps led by the city, we might see more people commuting in the way the Senator describes. A lack of co-ordination is not because of any lack of effort on our side. We added additional trains to determine whether this would grow the business, but additional trains drive cost. It is a very difficult balancing act for us at present and we are stuck with it. We are still trying to find solutions but we require other parties to help us. We would like to see whether the local authorities, particularly in Waterford and south Tipperary, could help us in this regard.

I am familiar with the very specific issue of the level crossing at Carrick-on-Suir because I have received a number of letters and other correspondence about it. There was a recent change which means we really should not be causing delays of 15 to 20 minutes. I will take the Senator's point on board and take another look at the issue. The problem used to be that the trains were scheduled to pass at Carrick-on-Suir. If a train was passing at Carrick-on-Suir, the signal man could not do his duties in this regard and operate a level crossing at the same time. That is why we were requested to provide two people. The provision of two people doubled the cost for the location. Now the trains do not pass at Carrick-on-Suir routinely. They can but they are not scheduled to do so at that location on the timetable. The signal person now has plenty of time to set up the signals for the trains and operate the level crossing. I have checked the position with the district manager on foot of recent correspondence. I have replied to a number of people by stating we should not be delaying them for 15 to 20 minutes. This should not still be happening. If it is, I will try to address it after this meeting.

We are still in service on the Waterford-Limerick Junction line. We would love to have more business on it to help sustain it. It is difficult to invest significant funds in it at present to improve it because the funds are simply not available. There are probably ways in which more co-ordination could be encouraged. Perhaps if the Senator could encourage the local authorities to help us, we could do something.

Senator Denis Landy

I thank Mr. Fearn. I would appreciate it if he reverted to me directly on the issue of the crossing. There have been a number of meetings with Iarnród Éireann and the local authorities. There needs to be connectivity from the station, which, as Mr. Fearn is well aware, is at least a mile from the city centre.

Iarnród Éireann should ascertain whether the private operator in Waterford, Keneally's, could link up with the service for a period to determine whether this would improve it.

Mr. Dick Fearn

I will.

Senator Denis Landy

I have no doubt that it will. If people know they will not have to face the elements at Rice Bridge and the quays when they get off the bus, it will improve. It would be welcome if work could be done in that regard.

Ms Anne Graham

The National Transport Authority has a role in addressing the issues raised by the Senator in terms of interconnections between services. We recently completed a review of services in the South-East Regional Authority area which includes Waterford and identified many of the issues he raised. It will be difficult to achieve a connection in Waterford city between rail and city bound services, but we want to make improvements. We will work with the local authorities and the regional authority to find a solution to the problem of interoperability.

Deputy Marcella Corcoran Kennedy

I hope the delegates will forgive me for raising a parochial issue with the National Transport Authority. The Midland Regional Authority, of which I was a member for a number of years, identified the interconnections between modes of transport as the key to sustainable development in the region. How has the NTA engaged with Bus Éireann and private operators in this regard? We will never be able to achieve the critical mass needed to take cars off the road if transport operators are not linked together. There is, for example, no connection between the Dublin-Galway, Dublin-Sligo and Dublin-Mayo railway lines. If I wanted to travel from my house to Sligo, I would have to drive to the nearest town and then take a three and a half hour bus journey to Mullingar to transfer to the Sligo train. That would put me off using public transport. What is being done to address this problem?

Funding of €1 million was recently announced for the Dublin-Portarlington mainline service. How will this money be spent and what benefits will it bring to passengers using that line?

As a frequent train user, I occasionally encounter passengers who are heavily intoxicated. What procedures are available to me as a train user to lodge a complaint or to feel safe in such circumstances?

Ms Anne Graham

The review of services in the South-East Regional Authority area was a pilot project. We have not carried out similar reviews in the eastern region, but we hope to do so, subject to funding being made available. If the Deputy can draw to our attention areas in which she thinks improvements could be made, she should contact us directly.

Mr. Dick Fearn

The money for the Dublin-Portarlington line was intended to fund speed improvements. It is a good section of the line to improve because it can benefit a considerable number of journeys. Trains to Waterford turn off just after Kildare, while the trains to Galway and Limerick also benefit. That section of the Dublin-Cork mainline route is very busy and if we can improve sections incrementally to reach the maximum speed, we can bring benefits to all of these services. That work is ongoing. If one is on a weekend train when it slows down, one will see yellow plant and machinery of all kinds.

I understand the Deputy's concerns about people indulging in anti-social behaviour or becoming inebriated on trains. We take these matters very seriously. All of our modern trains have intercoms installed beside the doors through which passengers can speak to the driver. If they are concerned for their personal safety, they are not alone. There is always a driver, obviously, and sometimes a second member of staff. The emergency button is clearly labelled. It does not automatically stop the train, like the old-fashion chain, but it allows the driver to quickly assess the circumstances. If there is a real problem, he or she will stop the train and call for assistance. If the problem is difficult but does not cause immediate harm, the driver will stop at the next station, even if the train is not scheduled to do so. That happens, although, thankfully, not every day. Anti-social behaviour periodically occurs on trains and when it does, the driver stops the train at the next station and calls the Garda. As gardaí can be contacted while the train is approaching the station, sometimes they are already at the station when it arrives. The driver is in constant communication with a central control office and passengers can contact the driver through the intercom.

Particularly in the more difficult urban areas, stations are patrolled by contract security agents during late evening and the night. On certain lines at difficult times, such as in the case of the recent spate of trouble we encountered on the Kilkenny line with stag parties, we employ security agents when we know there may be problems. We are alert to problems and do our best to deal with them promptly in order to reassure passengers that the train is still a safe mode of travel. Furthermore, all of our modern trains are covered by CCTV. A number of successful prosecutions have been brought based on CCTV evidence.

Deputy Luke ‘Ming’ Flanagan

Do the delegates envisage the western rail corridor ever being completed? There are times when one has to wonder whether this will ever happen.

What is the reason for Iarnród Éireann's obsession for putting the town in which I live in County Mayo? It never has been in County Mayo and I hope it will never. Several years ago a poster campaign indicated that my town was in County Mayo and when I checked the company's website recently, it suggested it was in that county. Mayo is a lovely county, but Castlerea is not part of it.

Mr. Dick Fearn

As Mr. Kenny seems to have been well briefed on the question of which county Castlerea is in, I will defer to him on the issue.

Mr. Barry Kenny

He will take the easy questions.

Mr. Dick Fearn

I will deal with the issue of the western rail corridor project which is not an easy one. The project was always intended to be completed in phases. The first phase involved the connection of the Limerick-Ennis line with the Dublin-Galway line at Athenry. That phase has been completed and the service is now fully operational. The second phase involved the extension from Athenry to Tuam and on to Claremorris. The first two phases were not quite so well documented, the next phase, which was also not quite so well documented was to consider what to do beyond Claremorris up towards Collooney and so on.

Phase 1 was done. Obviously phase 2 has been deferred. The Government announced in recent weeks that it is deferring this together with a number of other major transport projects, such as the significant project of the DART underground, because of funding. The Government statement says it is deferred for the present time and a review of what will be done next will be undertaken. We are not the decision makers, but the deliverers. Iarnród Éireann is very keen to deliver schemes the Government decides to fund. The rail network has been enhanced significantly over the past ten years, and certainly over the eight years I have had the pleasure to be here working for Iarnród Éireann. We have been able to spend a great deal of money very wisely in a significant improvement in the network. In due course, that process can start up again, when funding becomes available, and I will be delighted to lead the troops into delivery of those projects. At present the delivery is deferred.

Meanwhile we should continue to try to do our best on the existing section that has been built, and in the last timetable change during the year, we improved the connectivity at Athenry with the trains coming in from Gort, and there has been some take up by passengers, with people travelling from Gort to Dublin and connecting at Athenry because of the better connections. We will continue to watch it very closely and see what we can do to build up business. We must wait for whatever happens in due course to start on phase 2. I will ask my colleague, Mr. Barry Kenny, to address the other questions.

Mr. Barry Kenny

We are putting a new website in place and it will be up in the coming days. I have looked at it specifically and Castlerea is restored to its rightful place.

Deputy Luke ‘Ming’ Flanagan

A second time. It is a kind of Mayo Lebensraum sort of thing.

Deputy Seán Kenny

Reference was made earlier to the EU railway safety regulations and directives. I wish to address this question to Mr. Beesley. Have lessons been learned from the collapse of the Malahide viaduct about two years ago? Have safety procedures been put in place to ensure that bridges and viaducts are checked regularly to ensure we will not have a repeat of something like that again?

Mr. Gerald Beesley

Yes, lessons have been learned, and safety has been addressed in two ways. In respect of bridges, there is an improved and enhanced inspection regime, in particular in regard to bridges where water scar is perceived as a risk. We are all well aware that Iarnród Éireann has put that into full force by its proactive action on the Dodder bridge. The Dodder bridge problem was found before anything serious happened. I think Iarnród Éireann is to be commended on putting those procedures in place. In a more general sense, since the Malahide bridge collapse, the full force of the European safety management system requirements have been brought into force. Iarnród Éireann worked very closely with the Railway Safety Commission throughout 2010 to get its safety management system in place, through the assessment process, and that led to the issuing of safety authorisation for its infrastructure, management activities and safety certification for its train operating activities in January of this year in full accordance with the European railway safety requirements. In fact, safety is being tackled from two sides, from the specific lessons learned from incidents that happen and through the procedures and processes required by European legislation.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

I have a question on the EU legislative proposals on passengers' rights. Was it mentioned in the EU legislative proposals that Irish passengers must carry identification, as happens in Europe?

Mr. Liam Daly

I am not aware of that in the current legislation.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

I apologise for having to leave the meeting earlier. Obviously there is a separation between the operations division and the networks division, but obviously the operations division can only use the available network. Ireland got a derogation on the freight market. Clearly a multi-modal approach is acceptable to passengers because people can get off the bus or Luas and get on the train. Freight is different and it is not an acceptable means of moving goods if one does not have a continuous track. The DART underground or the interconnector will be a game changer, as Mr. Barry Kenny has described, and I believe he is totally correct in identifying it as such, with an increase from 33 million passenger journeys to 100 million passenger journeys.

Very little has been said on freight rail. Rosslare Harbour and Dublin Port are potentially connected in a way that has not been done before. In light of the liberalisation of the freight market, would the DART interconnector play the part I think it will play in view of the fact that an electrified and a diesel service will operate jointly? Is it possible to develop a freight market with an initiative such as the DART interconnector?

Mr. Dick Fearn

The DART underground is a very important project. Obviously we are disappointed it is deferred and we understand the financial situation. We hope it re-emerges soon because the business case for that project was superb. We believe it is a missing piece of the jigsaw of the rail network in Dublin city that we need. However, it is not for freight. We have a freight railway through Dublin - the Phoenix Park tunnel - and we can run freight trains from any part of the eastern side of the country to any part of the western side of our network and we do that daily. We have daily freight trains from the west to Dublin port. They go right through the Phoenix Park tunnel and then across the north side of Dublin around Cabra and on to the port. While there are no freight trains passing from the Wicklow-Wexford line to the west at present, if there were they could go that same way and similarly down from the northern line. The reason the Phoenix Park tunnel is not much use to us for passengers is that it does not serve the city centre. It goes right across the northern inner city suburbs and that is not where the passengers want to be. It is absolutely ideal for freight.

The derogation from the EU legislative proposals does not really hinder or help us on freight. It facilitates third party freight companies who may want to come in. None has knocked on our door yet but if one day somebody else wants to come in and add some freight operations to our network, under this EU legislation we will have to welcome and facilitate them. We will be able to do that. In the meantime, we are trying to develop our freight business profitably. Seven or eight years ago, I am afraid our freight business was losing up to €17 million per annum. That was a desperate situation. It was clawing away at money which we should have been using to improve the network and so on and we could not afford to keep going with a freight business that was losing so much money. We restructured our freight business completely and changed from carrying all sorts of bits of what we used to call unit load business to here, there and everywhere to what the Deputy describes as running a longer distance through-trains point to point. The type of freight trains we run now are, for example, for Coillte, where we provide the timber trains that run all the way from the north west down to the pulp mill in Waterford. We run container trains of import-export traffic from Ballina. We transport Coca Cola concentrate which is being exported through Dublin port and Waterford. We run zinc trains, which are very heavy trains, up to four times a day from the Tara Mines near Navan into Drogheda and down the mainline to Dublin and into Dublin port for export. That is just the sort of business we are good at on rail freight. We are constantly looking for more opportunities for that kind of heavy, long distance point to point freight. We have the network for it, including in the Dublin area. The DART underground is not relevant to that. However, the DART underground is so important to passengers. We need it and let us hope one day we get it.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Gerald Nash)

I have additional questions. Do we have an estimate of the cost of complying with the directive? Has a regulatory impact assessment been done at this stage on the directive and, if so, can it be circulated? If it has not been done at this stage, when will it be concluded? At that stage, will it be circulated to the committee? I would like to be apprised on the roll-out of integrated ticketing in the Republic and its co-ordination with the ticketing in Northern Ireland.

Mr. Liam Daly

The directive is the market access directive and the cost is relatively light as, effectively, it does not put much of a burden on us because there is no third party access on our network at present. If, on the other hand, we change the derogation, which is likely, there will be some impact on structures and we would require an external regulator and some internal restructuring vis-à-vis Iarnród Éireann. What we would propose, as I outlined earlier, is that we would look at the various options as regards removing the derogation. There is work to be done between ourselves and Iarnród Éireann and others on the kind of structure that would be most effective and efficient. In the standard way we would do a regulatory impact assessment at that time and consult and, of course, we would be more than happy to discuss those issues with the committee in due course.

In regard to the integrated ticketing project, I ask my colleague in the National Transport Authority to deal with that.

Ms Anne Graham

The integrated ticketing project is a greater Dublin area project, so the lead card will serve only the greater Dublin area and not train services beyond that. We obviously have an ambition for it to be a national ticket at some stage but when it is launched it will be for the greater Dublin area.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Gerald Nash)

Do members wish to comment? I thank all the witnesses, Ms. Liam Daly, Ms Andrea Lennon, Mr. Gerald Beesley, Ms Anne Graham, Mr. Dick Fearn, Mr. Tom Finn and Mr. Barry Kenny, for assisting us today in our deliberations. It has been a very informative discussion.

I propose that the committee prepares a scrutiny report following today's discussion to lay before both Houses and to forward to the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport. Is that agreed? Agreed.