Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 16 Apr 2003

Vol. 565 No. 4

Adjournment Debate. - Heritage Service.

Mr. Quinn

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for allowing me to raise this matter. A decision has been taken and formally announced since I initiated this request for an Adjournment debate. I ask the Minister to respond to the concerns expressed to me by people working in the heritage sector who are employed by the Government. As I intend to refer to a document prepared by the trade union IMPACT, I should declare an interest by stating that I was once a member of the original LGPSU, the forerunner of IMPACT.

IMPACT has claimed that the decision to re-organise heritage functions flies in the face of the Government's heritage plan, published last year. The decision has been unanimously opposed by senior Dúchas managers and all staff unions in the area. The Minister's decision to proceed with the changes ignores the recommendations of his officials and the best professional advice. IMPACT has called on the Minister and the Cabinet to recognise the damage that this decision will cause to the long-term protection of our valuable heritage, our standing in an international context and our valued tourism economy. The union has asked the Minister not to proceed with the plan. If I outline the union's concerns, perhaps the Minister will be able to respond to them, although I am sure he is familiar with some of the concerns that have been expressed.

IMPACT considers that the Minister's decision will cause long-term damage to the built and natural environments. The value of an integrated service in the heritage area is recognised in many jurisdictions and the principle has been enshrined in the European landscape convention, which was ratified by Ireland in March 2002. Ireland has been a leader in this field in the recent past and has been held up as a model by many practitioners in Europe, in particular. The increased inefficiencies and complicated working arrangements which will result from the Minister's decision will, it is claimed, result in legislative confusion and uncertainty in relation to our obligations under EU and Irish law and the prosecution of cases, and thus less effective conservation and protection. The plans will lead to a slower decision-making process for planning and protection issues and a loss of efficiency in the implementation of conservation projects and the management of sites on behalf of the State.

IMPACT's second concern is that it contends that the proposed break-up of the heritage service comes at a difficult economic period for the country. The immediate costs in terms of organisational change and the creation of new bodies, purely in terms of note paper signage, vehicles, publications and public relations work, etc., are estimated at over €2 million.

IMPACT is also concerned that the decision will damage the tourism industry. I support the union's assertion that the development of the Dúchas brand and the conservation and presentation of heritage sites has been a central to the development of the Irish tourism industry in recent years. Dúchas sites are recognised as brand leaders in heritage site presentation and interpretation. The investment of time and taxpayers' money in creating this brand is now proposed to be discarded. National heritage is, apparently, no longer to have a coherent image, nor the kind of co-ordinated, multidisciplinary management developed under the Dúchas banner. This will be the third disruptive reconfiguration of State-managed heritage in nine years. Such erratic mismanagement of our heritage by the Government can only damage a key sector of the tourism economy at a vulnerable period and reflects poorly on the aspiration to quality customer care enshrined in the national agreements.

I can hear echoes of an old battle from the Office of Public Works, which was reluctant to see the responsibilities I have discussed transferred to the former Department of Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht when Deputy Michael D. Higgins was the relevant Minister. I wonder if the legacy of that bitter battle with certain officials has, in part, informed this decision. People whom I know and respect, who are at the coalface of the delivery of heritage services, feel betrayed and ignored by the manner in which this decision has been taken and the manner in which they have been, as they see it, excluded from the process.

Mr. Cullen

I thank Deputy Quinn for raising this matter and for allowing me to address changes in the future organisation of heritage functions, details of which I announced earlier today. I will address the specific questions the Deputy asked.

Last June, the Taoiseach indicated that certain heritage functions were to be assigned to the Department of the Environment and Local Government and that responsibility for the management and other operational aspects of our built heritage would be exercised by the Office of Public Works. It was subsequently decided that all built heritage functions should be transferred to my Department initially, pending the completion of a review to recommend the most appropriate arrangements for giving effect to the Taoiseach's announcement. Deputy Quinn will accept that I have engaged in an enormous amount of investigative work to get this right on this occasion and not go through the changes that have occurred in recent years.

It was not a sudden decision. I have involved everyone. I acknowledge the Deputy's bona fides in the manner in which he has put the question.

A report arising from that review was considered by the Government yesterday and a new set of organisational arrangements relating to heritage matters was approved. These involve the Minister for the Environment and Local Government retaining full responsibility for nature conservation matters and for built heritage policy, while the Office of Public Works is being assigned responsibility for the operational and management functions regarding the built heritage. In addition, the role of the Heritage Council is to be redefined and there is also to be a progressive expansion of the remit of local authorities regarding heritage matters.

These new arrangements are wholly consistent with the direction outlined by the Taoiseach last June. They are designed to make the optimum use of the organisational resources available to the Government to meet its heritage responsibilities. They build on my Department's strengths in terms of policy development and regulation, particularly in the environmental area, as well as the Office of Public Works's strong tradition in the areas of conservation and property management.

As the Deputy will be aware it is the only Government Department in Europe if not the world that now has four ISO 9000 accreditations to four of its business units. It was totally underutilised. My view at the time was, and still is, that a number of properties were the responsibility of the Office of Public Works and more in Dúchas. There were two organisations almost competing with each other. We did not need two architectural services or two front-line delivery services. It needed to be streamlined. I have a very open-minded approach. I was never involved in historic or past battles in any of these issues and I know to what the Deputy is referring. I took a clear-minded view and involved everybody as I will now outline.

In addition, the decision to include the word "heritage" in the title of my Department, will reinforce the centrality of heritage issues within the Governmental system and highlight my Department's lead role in that regard. I am confident that the new arrangements will operate effectively, utilising the model for dividing responsibilities between my Department and the Office of Public Works devised during the review. In addition, interaction between my Department and the Office of Public Works will be assisted by the establishment of a high level heritage liaison group.

On the issue of consultation with staff, Deputy Quinn will know from his own experience in Government that changes in the distribution of functions between Departments have been implemented by successive Governments down through the years without such consultation. This reflects the long respected principle that decisions as to the apportioning of Government business between Departments are properly a matter for Government itself to determine and they are accepted not to be part of the industrial relations process.

In the event, I arranged that the Department's staff would be consulted on the review just undertaken in relation to heritage functions. This was a facility which their counterparts affected by previous organisational changes, including the other changes announced last June, did not enjoy. During the review, meetings took place with many different groupings of staff right across the heritage area and with the trade unions concerned. It was unique in this context. It did not happen anywhere else and has not happened previously. I insisted that all receive an early draft report earlier this year and consultation and written submissions were accepted. The consultation process put in place for this review was open, transparent and extensive.

Now that decisions on the new arrangements have been taken, we must turn our attention to the implementation phase. I am looking forward to a constructive working relationship between my Department and the Office of Public Works at both political and administrative levels so that we meet the very important objective – shared by all who participated in the review – of promoting and safeguarding our heritage. I acknowledge the participation of all the staff. I have taken great care and many months to consider all the options. I have taken peer review and looked at European models in great depth. Of the nine European countries I looked at, seven of the nine, excluding Northern Ireland and Norway, have environment departments with all the heritage functions married into them. That is the right course of action which we should follow.

I felt that neither I nor the Department had the capacity to manage the whole operation of the built environment. There are excellent skills in the Office of Public Works. I have maximised those skills by transferring many of those skilled in conservation back under one organisation. I think it will work well. They will have tremendous autonomy in what they do. I have great confidence in them. I am personally committed to the heritage area.

The Dáil adjourned at 10.35 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 7 May 2003.