Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine debate -
Wednesday, 10 Apr 2024

Bord Bia: Chairperson Designate

An Cathaoirleach

Before we begin, I want to bring to the witnesses' attention that witnesses giving evidence from within the parliamentary precincts are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they give to the committee. This means that a witness has a full defence against any defamation action for anything said at a committee meeting. However, witnesses are expected not to abuse this privilege and may be directed to cease giving evidence on an issue at the Chair's direction. Witnesses should follow the direction of the Chair in this regard and are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that, as is reasonable, no adverse commentary should be made against an identifiable third person or entity. Witnesses who are to give evidence from a location outside the parliamentary precincts are asked to note that they may not benefit from the same level of immunity from legal proceedings as a witness giving evidence from within the parliamentary precincts and may consider it appropriate to take legal advice on this matter. Privilege against defamation does not apply to publication by witnesses outside the proceedings held by the committee of any matters arising from the proceedings.

The purpose of the second session this evening is to have an engagement with the chairperson designate of Bord Bia, Mr. Larry Murrin, who is accompanied by the chief executive of Bord Bia, Mr. Jim O'Toole. I will allow Mr. Murrin five minutes to read his opening statement and then we will proceed to a question and answer session.

Mr. Larry Murrin

I thank the Chairman and committee members for the invitation to appear. I am delighted to have the opportunity to engage with this important group as chair designate of Bord Bia.

First, if I may, I will share a little about myself and my experience, which, I believe, lends itself to the role. I have been involved in the agrifood industry for more than 40 years, having co-founded Dawn Farms in 1985 with John and Peter Queally. We are a family-owned export business, now based in Naas, that specialises in supplying precooked ingredients to other food businesses in more than 50 markets around the world. Between 1985 and 1990, although still an SME, Dawn Farms created growth opportunities and laid the foundation stones for some key client relationships which endure to this day. Supported by the IDA and the then Department of Agriculture and Food, in 1991, we relocated to Naas, County Kildare to facilitate anticipated future expansion. Since that time, the business has expanded many times as its client and export base has constantly grown. Today, Dawn Farms employs almost 1,000 people in Ireland and is the largest cooked protein ingredient supplier outside of the US. Our products are served in more than 40,000 food service and retail outlets daily.

During the late 1980s and early 1990s, CBF, Bord Bia’s predecessor agency, had been helpful in terms of market intelligence. However, once Bord Bia was created in 1994, we started to benefit from a more focused approach to customer and market development. Bord Bia was capable of providing appropriate market intelligence that readily supported a high-growth organisation such as Dawn Farms. Over its 30-year existence, I have first-hand experience of the value of Bord Bia and how it has greatly assisted in Dawn Farm's efforts to scale its business. Supports offered included the development of on the ground contacts using insights provided by Bord Bia to create differentiation strategies and customer alignment. We have been continually assisted in translating insights into business opportunities which have grown into strategic partnerships, enabling us to enjoy long-term trading relations with many key customers around the globe.

Eleven years ago, we were delighted to be involved in Origin Green, a pioneering initiative which has continued to champion the importance of sustainability for the Irish food, drink and horticulture industry. In my opinion, Origin Green will prove to be one of the most important strategic initiatives ever conceived by a Government agency in Ireland.

Through my 40 years in the Irish agrifood sector, I served as chair of Food and Drink Industry Ireland for 12 years and was president of IBEC in 2014-15, as well as being involved in many other strategic, advisory and advocacy roles. I have always admired the work of Bord Bia and have sat on the consumer foods board for many years. I am delighted to take up the role of chair of Bord Bia to add my experience to the organisation and the industry as it continues its journey of adding value to all aspects of the Irish agrifood industry.

In recent years, our industry has experienced many challenges, including the long-running Brexit issue, the high-impact Covid pandemic, the ensuing global supply-chain crisis and, more recently, the Ukrainian conflict which has, in turn, triggered a prolonged inflation spike that has had a significant impact on consumers, especially in Europe, not to mention the human cost of the tragedy itself. The challenge for the agrifood sector is to navigate these obstacles and remain resilient. Climate change remains our biggest challenge, and the need to recognise the short- and long-term effect not just on food production systems but, ultimately, on consumer behaviour and buying choices. This will be the key focus for the next decades, and all stakeholders must play their part.

Bord Bia’s strategy throughout these uncertain and challenging times has remained core to its operations - focusing on value creation and value capture. The current Bord Bia strategy, Nurturing a Thriving Future, was launched in January 2022, alongside its ten-year vision. It is closely aligned with Food Vision, and focuses on five main pillars. The first is building food brand Ireland, which, in effect, is our reputation, with customers and consumers, and further developing its proof points. Origin Green, Ireland's national sustainability programme, will be at the heart of this activity, where Bord Bia will continue to build its strengths in sustainability. Origin Green is concentrating on further building trust through sustainability and quality assurance schemes. Farmer engagement is also critical to the delivery of this ambition. Bord Bia is working closely with the farming community, farm organisations and other State agencies to help navigate the challenges and opportunities ahead.

The second strategic pillar looks to provide better and more effective ways to connect and build partnerships with clients and their customers. This pillar recognises that the very nature of doing business has changed. That has been accelerated by Covid-19 and the disruption it has caused. Bord Bia was agile in its response to the pandemic and that agility will remain central to its operations.

The emergence of the next generation of digital technologies is a game-changer for both business-to-business and business-to-consumer marketing. Bord Bia is committed to some of the more traditional ways of doing business, such as participating at key international trade shows, for example. Putting people together with people is a crucial platform for generating and building business for Irish companies. However, the industry is also embracing opportunities to connect with customers in new ways through digital marketing and other emerging technologies. Delivery of this ambition will touch every aspect of the strategic plans, from how food brand Ireland is represented around the world to how we help clients develop their own brands.

The third area of strategic focus is around nurturing industry talent and developing client capability. This includes providing relevant and useful supports and skills to the industry. Bord Bia’s talent academy ensures a pipeline of talent for the industry, upskilled on relevant areas such as sustainability, business development, marketing, insights and innovation. As part of this programme, Bord Bia recently established an executive education programme aimed at senior management and board-level executives within the Irish food, drink and horticulture industry. This programme seeks to empower companies to embrace the opportunities within the sustainability challenge, and to embed sustainability within their own business strategies.

Championing insight-led innovation and brand development is the fourth area of our strategy. This is being completed in three ways: first, through thought leadership grounded in consumer and market insight; second, through the development of innovation partnerships with the food science community; and, third, through ongoing bespoke research projects aligned to our specific sector by sector strategies. Consumer led insight and innovation is a key driver of growth in what is a more competitive export landscape.

The fifth and final pillar, looks at supporting and enabling the organisation and its stakeholders to execute strategy though continuous learning and development, best practice corporate governance and physical and digital infrastructure.

As chair of Bord Bia, I look forward to further advancing the aims of the industry through activating Bord Bia’s strategy and by ensuring the organisation continues to be progressive, knowledgeable and ambitious. Food, drink and horticulture have a central role to play in our country’s future. There is no doubt that further challenges and opportunities will present themselves over the coming years. I look forward to providing leadership, support and guidance to the industry by supporting Bord Bia’s executive in its ambitions to deliver the strategy outlined, all the while navigating challenges with agility.

I will conclude by thanking the committee for inviting me to address it this evening. I am happy to respond to any questions. If I am unable to provide the required detail, I will follow up with the committee.

An Cathaoirleach

Mr. Murrin undoubtedly comes to the position with a very impressive CV and a broad knowledge of industry gained over many years. I sat on the board of Bord Bia for six years. It does a seriously good job in promoting Irish food. As stakeholders in the industry, we do get value for money for what is spent in Bord Bia.

Before I go to the other members, I want to ask two questions. The first relates to the live export of young calves. A certain number of calves were exported this year but each year it seems to get more difficult and problematic. The media focuses on the exportation of calves and so on. Friesian bull calves are sought after by the veal units but getting them to the Continent is proving ever more problematic. Does Mr. Murrin think it is feasible for this country to establish its own veal production? If so, would we have the capability of marketing it on the Continent where the Belgians and Dutch have been at it for a long time.

Origin Green brings great benefits for Irish food and puts forward a particular image of the country in the context of the food produced here. We have seen a greater emphasis on organic production. Is there any danger that organics could undermine the status of Origin Green? There is a product that the country has produced in Origin Green, but there is an add-on of being organic against the mainstream production that is non-organic. Is there a danger that we might undo some of the strength of Origin Green, on which we have been working very hard and spending a great deal of money to show that we have a unique product that is produced in a clean environment and in a very sustainable fashion, with another product that is claiming to do more?

Mr. Larry Murrin

That is a nice little brace of questions that will surely test me, as chair designate, particularly as I have not yet attended my first board meeting. Nonetheless, I will make an attempt at an educated answer for the benefit of the Chair and the committee.

I think the Chair is referring to veal production in the context of calf exports. I do not have a particular brief in respect of veal production, but I will say that I think we do have an opportunity over time to further enhance our activity in that space. Undoubtedly, it will lead to some changes in the welfare aspects of calf exports. I believe our welfare on calf exports is considered to be of a reasonably high standard currently. I would like to think this can be encouraged and continue to grow, notwithstanding that we must recognise the issues that scaling and opportunity like that actually represent. I am advised that some trials on veal processing were conducted last year. However, this is still considered to be early days. I do think it is something that we in Bord Bia will revert to the committee on in due course.

On Origin Green, as I said earlier, in time it will go down as one of the smartest initiatives undertaken by an entire sector. The day Origin Green was created, those of us who were present – and perhaps the Chair was too – knew it was a journey that we were embarking on. We knew that it was not a light switch but a dimmer which would take many years to illuminate the path. And so it has proven. Origin Green is unique in the world of food and farming in the developed world or in any part of the world. It gives Ireland a unique platform on which to continue to build what will be and is already a unique case in many areas.

The Chair spoke about organics. I think organics can survive and thrive well within an Origin Green framework. There may have to be tweaks as we take that journey and, no doubt, they will be subject of debate but certainly I do not see them as being opposing goals. I think they are complementary and should be seen as such.

Senator Tim Lombard took the Chair.

Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice

I welcome Mr. Murrin and wish him the best of luck. I was listening to his submission. He has a fair bit of experience and knowledge of the whole industry. I would echo the Chairman. If there is one thing I would ask Mr. Murrin to do it is on the calf and dairy side. There is rocky water ahead. We need to make sure they are smoothed for all the farmers.

I do not know how much Mr. Murrin knows about Bord Bia. There is a fear among many farmers. Why would Mr. Murrin think that would be the case?

Mr. Larry Murrin

I know a reasonable amount about Bord Bia having been involved with the consumer foods board. I stress that I have spent my entire career on the market side of Bord Bia, or the market side of the industry, and on the processing side, as distinct from inside the farm gate.

However, I would be very interested, as would Bord Bia, in hearing a little more from the Deputy on the topic he has raised.

Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice

If you talk to farmers, you will hear they fear getting in with Bord Bia. Bord Bia will be controlling Ireland's new PGI status, which is good. If we are producing a premium product, can Bord Bia envisage a premium price? If we are producing a premium product, why is there a clause in the terms and conditions concerning Bord Bia? A calf born to a suckler cow in Ireland will be out for the first eight or nine months of the year and the dog in the street knows it will be eating grass. When the calf is sold, it goes to a farmer who will probably finish it, or else it goes for export. Such a farmer never needed to be on Bord Bia before, but this is now a condition associated with PGI status. To put it simply, it is a good clause for Bord Bia in that more people will be forced in. Does Mr. Murrin agree that this should be done to farmers?

Mr. Larry Murrin

It is too early for me to have a view on that. There are a couple of aspects in respect of which I would like to revert the Deputy. He mentioned that farmers fear engagement with Bord Bia. I urge all stakeholders who are not already engaging, especially farmers, to engage as actively and proactively as they can with Bord Bia. Bord Bia already has more than 60,000 farmers involved in its quality assurance schemes.

Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice

That is less than 50% of the farmers of Ireland.

Mr. Larry Murrin

I fully accept that. As I said about Origin Green, it is a journey, and hopefully a journey of conversion. Bord Bia is a very democratic organisation that seeks to add value to every unit of agricultural output of the country. In that sense, the farmers who can and will engage in the process should have nothing to fear. I would be disappointed if I thought genuine fear existed. I understand how there might be a scale issue affecting some farmers in that their participation might be seen as involving considerable paperwork and accountability. Ultimately, however, all stakeholders have to be on the bus and we need the maximum number of people engaged. I have spent my life in the food and agri sector and am very passionate about it, so I would have an ear for what farmers want to say and their natural fears, but I would encourage engagement with all the Bord Bia stakeholders to make further progress. The further down the supply chain Bord Bia can go, the better it will be for Ireland Inc. That, to me, is logical.

The Deputy mentioned PGI status. This morning, I was in a supermarket – it was by necessity and I was not watching what products were moving off the shelves – and what stood out at the continental meat counter in quite a sea of charcuterie options was a packet of Italian salami with PGI boldly emblazoned on it. I counted 20 options I could have bought but I bought the PGI product, as I believe other shoppers would have, not because it was cheaper or dearer but because it spoke to me and was in the most prominent position on the shelf. The same opportunity will exist for Irish grass-fed beef and whatever might follow it in the years to come. Certainly, PGI can add more value to farm output and Ireland's exports. Ultimately, that is what we want in the country.

On the suckler calf issue, I would like to revert to the Deputy. I have the CEO, Mr. Jim O'Toole, beside me. We would like to revert to the Deputy, if we may, in the not-very-distant future.

Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice

That is no problem because I understand Mr. Murrin is only entering his position. I would have thought the matter would have been considered. The EU is considering how to eliminate paperwork for small farmers as much as possible, so you would imagine there would be an exemption for farmers with up to 20 suckler calves to keep the small family farm on the road. That is one matter I ask the delegates to consider. They might revert to me on the other matter.

I am interested in hearing about Mr. Murrin's experience with smaller operators because he has considerable experience in this regard. We have heard that many of the smaller meat exporters do their own thing. A great deal of paperwork is required to get on Bord Bia stands. The operators are just not in a position to do everything that needs to be done.

I have engaged with Bord Bia over the past couple of years. The buzzword in Ireland at the moment is "sustainability" and the buzzword for the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications, Deputy Eamon Ryan, is "anaerobic digestion", even though not much funding has been put into the latter. If you are Bord Bia quality-assured, you cannot use digestate on your farm, whereas you can in every other European country. Could Mr. Murrin look into this as an incoming chairman? The situation is ironic because I thought all member states were in the same Europe.

Mr. Larry Murrin

On the questions put to me, and with respect to my colleague Mr. O'Toole, the paper is arriving at me, as chairman designate, by the hundredweight. I will choose the old measurement for that particular description, if I may. It will take me quite a bit of time to get up to speed. They are not charging me for it. That is important to know.

The Deputy has touched on a couple of areas. Bord Bia's approach to developing and delivering quality assurance schemes democratically is critical. If Origin Green taught us one thing all those years ago as we laid the foundation stone, it was that we had to be able to prove what we were talking about. The development of the Bord Bia quality assurance schemes since the inception of Origin Green, although schemes existed prior to it, reflects that need. Our objective is to be as transparent as possible with consumers right around the world, but especially in Europe, where we have 500 million fairly willing consumers. We have learned how to sell Irish food to them and ultimately our objective is to sell more. That does not mean reducing transparency or having derogations from transparency regarding how or the scale at which an animal might be produced. That is vital.

The Deputy touched on the policy aspect. That is not formulated by Bord Bia; how those things are formed and created is a Department of Agriculture, Food and Marine issue. Bord Bia’s job then is to implement the quality assurance schemes and Origin Green as democratically as it can.

Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice

I apologise for interrupting. Is Mr. Murrin saying that the Department of agriculture lays down all the terms and conditions?

Mr. Larry Murrin

No. The Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine lays out a mandate for Bord Bia to follow. Bord Bia assesses market needs and the on-the-ground status and then lays out plans accordingly.

Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice

Just to fill Mr. Murrin in on some of them before he goes any further, in the line of the anaerobic digesters, Teagasc gave support and the Department had no problem. It was only Bord Bia that seemed to have a problem. It did not seem to be the other two that were laying down the terms and conditions. I do not want to walk Mr. Murrin into something.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Is the Deputy finished?

Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice

Bord Bia might come back to me on those few points.

Mr. Larry Murrin

We will come back on the points the Deputy raised. I thank him for his questions.

Deputy Claire Kerrane

I thank the witnesses for coming in. I congratulate Mr. Murrin on the new role and wish him the best of luck. I appreciate that he is coming into a role.

I have a couple of questions. Towards the end of his opening statement, he mentioned food, drink and horticulture all being central to our future. Can he speak to us a little bit about horticulture in particular and his views on where it lies today? There is huge concern about the large number of people leaving horticulture that we have seen. I believe we have huge potential in horticulture, albeit huge challenges, and the weather not least a major one. In his tying in of food, drink and horticulture, could Mr. Murrin as the new chair designate coming in speak to us a little bit about that and how he sees it today?

Mr. Larry Murrin

In respect of horticulture, there are a few things Bord Bia readily recognises that represent significant challenges for the sector. Number one is labour supply. It is a very labour-intensive activity. It is difficult to source a sufficiently sized workforce to make that constantly viable, but it is not impossible. My own sector of food processing faced a similar situation ten, 15 and 20 years ago and ultimately overcame it. It is posing an obstacle to the operation and development of many horticultural businesses. The reality is that labour costs have increased and availability has decreased for everyone right across the entire food sector. Since the outbreak of the war in Ukraine, the input costs, as well as the costs of doing business, have also increased significantly, whatever those inputs might be, from base fertilisers to plant protection products. We then add in our climate on top of that, and it is an industry faced with many challenges. Bord Bia is liaising with all the Irish retailers and the horticulture sector. The feedback we get is that everyone understands that we need to have enough growers to continue the base we have and to try to continue to grow it. The challenges are well recognised by Bord Bia but it is a journey that we will all have to work on together through various steps that are being taken. It is also more than worth mentioning that the importance of quality assurance for the horticulture sector cannot be ignored. Everything that Bord Bia does seeks to give consumers assurance on the methodologies deployed around every aspect of production of Irish food, whether it is inside or outside the farm gate. We have to bear that in mind. It will be a journey. Bord Bia is sensitive and tuned to it and has various initiatives in play, but they will take time. In the meantime, I would love for it to stop raining, for everybody’s benefit. That would give us all a racing chance.

Deputy Claire Kerrane

Yes, I think we would all agree with that. Second and lastly, I wish to ask about the audits under the quality assurance scheme. Mr. Murrin will remember and know that during Covid, the audits were remote and done online. I have the pleasure of doing my dad’s when it comes around, which is always fun. When it went remote that time, I found it very good. Obviously it was done because of Covid and I understand that. Was that looked at or reviewed afterwards to see whether rolling it out going forward is an option? I note Mr. Murrin spoke much in his opening statement about technologies, digital and all of that. I understand that nothing compares with having someone with their feet on the ground in the farm. I am interested to know whether it was looked at after the remote audits were carried out.

Mr. Larry Murrin

I probably have not got to the page in the hundredweights of paper that have been delivered, yet that reveals the intimate secrets of whether remote audits were good or not, but I can give the Deputy a little insight into the concept. In my sector, we had many remote audits from our customer base right across the world. We have been back to the boots on the ground piece for quite some time now and, to be honest, that is a good thing. I know it absorbs resources. Certainly in our case in Dawn Farms, it absorbs significant resources of expert people, and that might not be available to an SME in a particular sector. For us to continue our journey of import replacement or export, accreditation and the need to be able to see that first hand and demonstrate it has been seen and audited first hand is a critical aspect of that journey. I am sorry to use the word “journey” again. Every customer in the world went remote for a period of time, just as Bord Bia did. The real essence of it is to see, touch, verify and be able to demonstrate to the consumers that it is real and deep, no matter what size the organisation you are auditing is, whether it is a three-man operation or a 203-man operation.

Deputy Johnny Mythen

I wish Mr. Murrin well as chair designate. Dawn Meats is a very successful company around the world. I knew some guys who worked there as well.

Mr. Larry Murrin

I describe Dawn Meats as my corporate cousin. It is a hugely successful company a little older than ourselves.

Deputy Johnny Mythen

I will continue on in Deputy Kerrane’s spirit as she spoke about the inspections and so on. We had some farmers in earlier for a discussion and they said the whole system is extremely cumbersome.

It can take eight or ten hours to do the paperwork. For example, there was €8 headage for sheep and there were 240 extra questions on that particular issue. One of the questions concerned if the applicant's neighbour was grazing in the field beside his or her field and the applicant could not graze cattle until the next day. Stuff like that has to be looked at. It is not practical. That is just one aspect of it.

On a general aspect and on the opening statement, Origin Green is very important to Ireland, along with building strength and sustainability. What does Bord Bia see as the main challenges and opportunities going forward with Origin Green? Mr. Murrin said that the traditional methods are used for the trade shows and he spoke of the emergence of the next generation of digital technology. Has Bord Bia done much research into what platform types are likely to be the most productive for the Irish industry?

Mr. Larry Murrin

Could the Deputy repeat that last part?

Deputy Johnny Mythen

Has Bord Bia done any research into which platform space is likely to be the most productive for the Irish industries when, as Mr. Murrin said, Bord Bia uses this when showcasing at trade shows and such?

Mr. Larry Murrin

Perhaps I could intuitively answer the last part of the Deputy's question first. In our industry there is a lot of emotion, ownership and authorship attached. There are many platforms under development that take advantage of technology but in my humble experience there will never be anything to replace a handshake and an introduction. I believe that trade shows in a physical sense internationally will continue to be a vital part of that platform in how we create new relationships. To translate the degree of ownership and emotion that is involved in food production, from farm level right the way through the various aspects of how it is processed, and the ownership of that process, there is no better vehicle than face to face.

I will now go back to some of the other points the Deputy touched on. Customers demand that we are able to demonstrate that the same rule applies right across the food production chain and that we - Ireland Inc., and not just Bord Bia - are pulling on the same rope and hopefully in the same direction. In that sense it is really important that we are able to answer the customer demand and that we have the technical advice available in our various resources, among which I include Bord Bia and the whole cohort of people involved in quality assurance schemes in Bord Bia, to enable even the smallest producer to find his or her niche on that ladder and get on board. That is really essential.

Deputy Johnny Mythen

Mr. Murrin referred to the sector-by-sector bespoke research. Will Mr. Murrin give some examples of the bespoke research projects envisaged?

Mr. Larry Murrin

There are a number of technical things being worked on with individual companies that are leading in a sector or wishing to lead in a sector, and with various scientific institutions. For actual technical examples, I will have to come back to the Deputy, if I may. Mr. O'Toole is prompting me on one or two things I know very well, such as the whole area of consumer trends, insights and digital platforms - about which the Deputy asked in the context of ways of doing business - and they will be viable into the future. There is also the whole carbon piece and how we will handle that as a country as we move forward.

Deputy Johnny Mythen

On executive education and training and the feedback from participants, what were the opportunities or obstacles and what was the overall buy-in to the project?

Mr. Larry Murrin

Bord Bia has had a number of very successful executive education programmes but very recently these have focused on the role of environmental, social and governance issues inside the world of food production and how we have to equip our most senior people to embrace this in a food production environment. My own company has had a number of senior people through the Smurfit programme, as an example. I cannot say enough about it as a resource. It is quite unique and it is being provided by a semi-State agency. It is not at no cost. It is not being done for nothing. Bord Bia is charging for it, and it needs to. I have not gotten through the index and a hundredweight of paper yet but I doubt the cost is being fully covered by what each participant is charged. That is designed to encourage more and more participation. The more we can educate our executive teams across the stakeholder group, the stronger Ireland Inc. will be.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I apologise for being delayed. I was caught at another meeting. My deepest apologies about turning up late. It is great to have the witnesses here. The presentation was very well put together.

The chair designate's involvement with Dawn Meats is something we are all very much aware of. In my part of the world Dan Brown is a very good friend of ours so we know exactly what Dawn Meats has done over recent decades and its wonderful contribution to the agricultural sector and it is still going strong. It is good to see that the Brown family are still going strong as well down there.

Mr. Larry Murrin

They sure are, and so is Dan, thank God.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Indeed.

Mr. Larry Murrin

I would draw a slight distinction, with no insult to anybody. As I said, we are corporate first cousins of Dawn Meats. The common denominator is the Queally family that ties Dawn Meats together with the Browns at Farm Fresh Foods, and myself in Dawn Farm Foods.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Very good.

Mr. Murrin will take over a really important role in the agricultural sector. This role involves Bord Bia and it involves trying to make sure Bord Bia is fit for purpose to drive forward this really important industry for our entire economy.

Mr. Larry Murrin

Yes.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

What are your personal key goals in your period of time as chairman that you want to deliver? I realise you have been given a few hundredweight of paper and that you are still going through that paper, and I wish you the very best luck. Hopefully Bord Bia will become a paperless operation in your reign as chairman.

Mr. Larry Murrin

I would say Bord Bia probably is paperless but I am not.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I was thinking as much.

Mr. Larry Murrin

I like to turn a page and I like to look and then look back and note; all that old fashioned kind of stuff.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Indeed. Will Mr. Murrin give us the key goals he has in his mind as to how he can actually drive this really important entity forward?

Mr. Larry Murrin

My role as chair is, with the board, to look at the strategy Bord Bia deploys around its goals. Bord Bia does not formulate goals for itself or for the wider sector out of thin air. They are based on real feedback, based on real facts, coming from real stakeholders in the industry and real markets where opportunities exist. Bord Bia is extremely good at defining the shape of those markets and the challenges that are associated with them. My objective as chair is to work with the board to support the executive to deliver on those goals.

The calibre of people who have been engaged on the board is a testament to Bord Bia. I am very honoured to have an opportunity to be added to that list.

In my opening statement, I said I had been involved in the sector for more than 40 years. Bord Bia has been a pretty critical part of the insights, education and knowledge we have gleaned and the relationships we have formed over 30 of those 40 years. That is true of many companies. They have a resource and their objective in providing pathways for the industry to grow is to have the kinds of resources and knowledge available to industry that make the journey as free of obstacles as possible. No journey to grow is obstacle-free. These are significant things. Regardless of whether companies are making whiskey or ready meals, cutting beef to customer specifications or making hamburgers for a global restaurant chain, those deep insights are really valuable. Bord Bia has become a very important education and innovation resource in that area. As chair, I want to encourage that activity, with the board, to continue to grow and foster it wherever we can. I will do that very actively with the chief executive and his team and my fellow board members.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

With regard to Bord Bia's significant international footprint, Mr. Murrin mentioned face-to-face contact being very important in building relationships with key markets. How can the good work done in the past regarding that footprint be built on? Does that footprint need to be expanded in international markets? Should more people be encouraged to act as ambassadors for us in those markets? What is Mr. Murrin's vision for this important element of the industry?

Mr. Larry Murrin

These are great questions. Bord Bia has 14 offices around the world. I do not want to create the impression that they are massively resourced because the head count in Bord Bia is well below 200. I do not want to make it sound like a big statement but the truth is that the calibre of people in Bord Bia is second to none. Do we need to deploy more resources in helping us to create and bridge into new markets or new opportunities in existing markets or net new markets where we are only beginning our journey, including some of the Far East markets? The answer is "Yes". We do need to do so, but we need to do it very carefully and deliberately and with the kind of insight and depth of vision Bord Bia brings to these things. I am confident that any expansion will fully reflect the work that goes in before it is done.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

That is the point I was making about the need for an expansion of the important network Bord Bia has and which has worked really well. Having 14 offices is significant but if the number increased, hopefully we would see growth in our global market share.

Mr. Larry Murrin

Ultimately, the objective is to grow existing markets, create new ones and then fan out from there. It is a bigger version of exactly what we have done in our own business over those years. The level and depth of customer understanding required before company X goes and knocks at the door and says, "I am Michael from Ireland and I have product X", are not good enough. There needs to be a serious depth of study and real insight derived to educate what the customer is offered. In our own business, I used to say that seller capability comes first. There is a need to convince the customer to buy Ireland Inc. and the products, whatever they are, will follow. I know the committee does not know anything about my business, but that is the way it is. We make customised products, but we were selling our expertise and the reputation of Ireland Inc. That has only grown over the years. From a wider perspective, Ireland has a very fine reputation, albeit we are still small.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

My last point is on where we are, unfortunately, with the weather issues we have throughout the country. I will be very blunt. In my part of the world, last Monday we had 33 mm of rain, which is just over 1.5 inches. That is significant, to say the least. Pressures on farms are significant at the moment. There are fodder issues and slurry capacity issues. This is causing mental health issues and many farmers are struggling. It has been six months of winter, to say the least. Farmers are really feeling the pinch. Perhaps there is a need for Bord Bia to give a month extension to its certification process, rather than having farmers go through an on-farm Bord Bia examination. That would be very helpful for the farming community. Farmers are under pressure. Notifications are coming out for next June that they are going to be farm inspections. I realise that by June the world may have changed, but there is potential for Bord Bia people to be on farms tomorrow and the day after. I think there is an opportunity here for Bord Bia to extend the certification process for a month, thereby giving people a breather, because they are under exceptional pressure. I suggest Mr. Murrin raise the issue with the executive for its consideration. I was hoping the winter would end two months ago but it has not ended yet and I do not know when it is going to end.

Mr. Larry Murrin

I wish I could offer consoling words about the weather. Unfortunately, that is not part of the remit I am asked to consider. Having said that, one can only have sympathy for all primary producers in beef, dairy and tillage. The country is literally under water at the moment. Bord Bia has a helpline for farmers which it activated when the crisis deepened. Farmers can defer an audit that might be in the programme, if the circumstances they face on their enterprise demands it. Bord Bia will be very sympathetic in these cases. The weather is going to continue to be a very topical issue for some time. It will occupy a share of the board's and the executive's discussion. However, like the lights I referred to earlier, unfortunately, we cannot switch off the weather.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

On behalf of the committee, I thank Mr. Murrin for his contributions. I wish him the best of luck going forward. The contributions and engagement with members have been excellent.

The next meeting of the joint committee will be held at 5.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 17 April 2024, when we will engage with the chairman designate of Coillte. As there is no further business, the meeting now stands adjourned.

The joint committee adjourned at 7.49 p.m. until 5.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 17 April 2024.