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Departmental Agencies

Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 16 June 2010

Wednesday, 16 June 2010

Questions (12, 13)

Leo Varadkar

Question:

39 Deputy Leo Varadkar asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Innovation the decision he has made on each of the recommendations of the Special Group on Public Service Numbers and Expenditure Programme report relevant to his Department such as creating a single funding stream for all science, technology and innovation activities across all Departments, the discontinuation of funding for the Irish Council for Bioethics, the reduction of Departmental civil servants serving the science, technology and innovation programme, consolidating all indigenous enterprise support and sector marketing functions in Enterprise Ireland and the rationalisation the organisations losing functions as appropriate, the reduction of Industrial Development Authority capital and administrative costs including rationalisation of regional offices in Ireland and shared services, efficiency saving in administration and programme prioritisation in Enterprise Ireland, the rationalisation of IDA and Enterprise Ireland overseas offices, reorganisation Shannon Development, reorganisation of Forfás, outsourcing the Certification Service of the National Standards Authority of Ireland, the rationalisation of all employment services provided or funded by the State into a single operation, ending the dual entitlement of certain social welfare claimants to both social welfare payments and FÁS training allowances or Community Employment allowances, cutting FÁS services to business, finding efficiencies in the FÁS administration budget, the relocation of all Industrial Relations institutions to a single location, merging the Health and Safety Authority and the National Employment Rights Authority into one Work Place Inspectorate, merging the functions of the Registrar of Friendly Societies and Companies Registration Office, savings in corporate services, a reduction in administrative budget and a transfer of foreign posts to Brussels to reduce travel and subsidence spend, merging the Irish Takeover Panel with the Competition Authority; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25397/10]

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Oral answers (30 contributions)

The report of the special group on public service numbers and expenditure programmes made a number of recommendations addressed directly to my Department. The Deputy has outlined most of these recommendations in his question.

In the time available, it is not possible to address all of the recommendations in the special group's report relating to my Department in detail. However, I am circulating, for the benefit of the House, a detailed table which sets out the current position on each of the recommendations in the report that relates directly to my Department. As the Deputy will see from that table, eight recommendations have been accepted in whole or in part and the resulting financial savings have been incorporated into my Department's Estimate for this year.

Some proposals envisaged by the special group, such as the rationalisation of agencies, are quite complex to implement and may require legislative provision if they are to be achieved. There are also a number of recommendations in the report affecting my Department which require cross-departmental consideration and/or consideration at Government level.

As the Deputy will be aware, responsibility for FÁS transferred from my Department to the Department of Education and Skills with effect from 1 May this year. The recommendations made by the special group in respect of FÁS programmes and services are now a matter for consideration by that Department.

Decisions in respect of some recommendations will be a matter for consideration by Government in due course. Any expenditure reductions that may arise will be included in the budget for my Department in future years.

Summary of Recommendations made by the Special Group on Public Service Numbers and Expenditure Programmes in respect of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Innovation

Recommendation

Position

Create a single funding stream for all science, technology and innovation activities across all Departments.

In the context of Budget 2010, the Minister for Finance announced that the Government was establishing a single funding stream for Science, Technology and Innovation to maximise the efficiency and focus of investment and ensure that Ireland’s effort is strategically targeted on those areas that can achieve greatest impact.

The transfer of responsibility and associated funding for the Programme for Research in Third Level Institutions (PRTLI) and certain other research functions from the Department of Education and Skills to the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Innovation from 1 May 2010 represents significant progress in relation to implementing this recommendation.

Discontinuation of funding for the Irish Council for Bioethics.

The 2010 Estimates made provision for an orderly wind-down of funding from the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Innovation to the Irish Council for Bioethics (ICB) in the course of the year. The then Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment agreed with the Minister for Health and Children and the Minister for Finance that the three staff in the secretariat to the ICB should be seconded to the Department of Health and Children, so that their expertise could be availed of appropriately.

The funding allocation that had previously been made available to the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment for the ICB was accordingly transferred to the Department of Health and Children. Any further decisions in relation to the body are a matter for that Department.

Reduction of Departmental civil servants serving the science, technology and innovation programme.

The Special Group proposed reductions in civil service numbers across all of the Department’s programmes.

The number of serving civil servants in the Department fell by 80 in 2009 and will fall further this year due to the moratorium on the recruitment of staff.

The Department is currently in discussion with the Department of Finance on staffing targets for the year. The Department will apply its reduced resources as required to address key priorities which may vary from time to time.

The Special Group also proposed reductions in the number of staff in the Department’s agencies. Staffing targets for the agencies are also under discussion with the Department of Finance.

Consolidate all indigenous enterprise support and sector marketing functions in Enterprise Ireland and the rationalisation the organisations losing functions as appropriate. EI to deliver consolidated services through 8 offices in line with NSS hubs

The proposal made by the Special Group cuts across a number of Government Departments and agencies. Detailed consideration of those aspects that concern only the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Innovation (regarding, for example, the CEBs) is at an advanced stage.

Reduction in Enterprise Ireland’s Capital spend

The Government considered it appropriate to increase Capital funding to Enterprise Ireland over the last two years to enable the agency to support vulnerable but viable companies, through, for example, the Enterprise Stabilisation Fund.

Reduction of IDA’s capital and administrative costs including rationalisation of regional offices in Ireland and shared services.

IDA’s administrative costs have been reduced by €2.6 million for 2010 compared to the 2009 Estimate provision. This has been achieved through pay and efficiency savings.

It is not clear what savings would accrue from a rationalisation of regional offices.IDA Ireland’s capital allocation is directly related to its contractual commitments.

IDA Ireland’s capital allocation is directly related to its contractual commitments.

Efficiency saving in administration and programme prioritisation in Enterprise Ireland.

Enterprise Ireland’s administrative budget has been reduced by €7.9 million for 2010 compared to the 2009 Estimate provision. This has been achieved through pay and efficiency savings.

The rationalisation of IDA and Enterprise Ireland overseas offices.

The agencies already share office space in most common locations.

Reorganisation of Shannon Development.

Consideration of this recommendation is on-going in the context of the special requirements of the Mid West Region in the aftermath of the Dell closure. Any reorganisation of Shannon Development would require approval by the Government.

Reorganisation of Forfás.

The Special Group’s proposal was that Forfas’s existing shared services function (carried out on behalf of a number of agencies) should be relocated to a wider Shared Services operation.

The implementation of this recommendation would be contingent on the identification of another body which provides shared services functions more efficiently than Forfas.

In the absence of the identification of such a body, the Department requested Forfás to examine the possibility of achieving savings through an enhancement of their existing shared services arrangements and this process is under way.

Privatise the Certification Service of the National Standards Authority of Ireland.

The Special Group’s proposal was to privatise (rather than outsource) the NSAI’s Certification Services.

Having considered the recommendation in detail, it was not clear that any benefit would accrue to the taxpayer from such a move, because of the high level of overhead costs that would remain with the NSAI after a sale of the certification business. The more likely result would be increased Exchequer cost. Accordingly, it has been decided not to pursue this proposal at this time.

The relocation of all Industrial Relations institutions to a single location.

The Labour Court, the Labour Relations Commission and the Rights Commissioner services are currently located in Tom Johnson House in Dublin.

The Office of Public Works and the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources have been requested to facilitate the location of the Employment Appeals Tribunal to the same premises.

Merging the Health and Safety Authority and the National Employment Rights Authority into one Work Place Inspectorate.

Further examination of this proposal suggests that: there are radical differences between the natures of the two inspectorates;

overlaps between the two Agencies are minimal;

a merger will not yield appreciable savings;

substantial legislative change would be required.

On that basis, it is not propose to proceed with this recommendation. However, both Agencies are, under the aegis of the Department, developing a programme of practical co-operation designed to make most efficient and effective use of their overall resources, whilst having regard to their different remits.

Merging the functions of the Registrar of Friendly Societies (RFS) and Companies Registration Office (CRO).

The two offices and their statutory functions are already the responsibility of the same public official. Proposals relating to the future of the Registry of Friendly Societies and its statutory functions will be submitted to Government shortly.

IAASA should maximise shared services and reduce the Exchequer’s intervention from 40% to 20%

IAASA is endeavouring to maximise the use of shared services, but scope for savings is minimal. The Department currently provides payroll services to the Authority. The level of Exchequer subvention is provided for in legislation and any reduction in this subvention would require detailed policy assessment and legislative change.

Savings in corporate services, a reduction in administrative budget and a transfer of foreign posts to Brussels to reduce travel and subsistence spend

Savings of €1 million in the Administrative Budget were delivered in the 2009. Further savings will be achieved in 2010.

There are costs associated with the assignment of posts to Brussels (e.g. Rent Allowance). Having analysed the proposal, the Department does not believe that the recommendation would be efficient or achieve economies in an overall context.

Merging the Irish Takeover Panel with the Competition Authority

This merger could lead to unnecessary policy conflict and it would not be in line with best international practice.

I thank the Minister for his reply and I look forward — assuming it will still be my responsibility to do so after tomorrow — to examining the table to which he refers in great detail. I would not agree with every proposal contained in the an bord snip nua report but I and my party agree with many of them. For some time I have been critical of the fact that the Government commissions reports and appoints task forces but does not then state, within a reasonable timeframe, which recommendations it is accepting, which ones it is refusing — and the reasons for so doing — and which ones it is going to implement. That practice should be normal for Government.

Does the Minister agree that if a report is commissioned or a task force appointed, the Government should, within a reasonable timeframe, indicate the recommendations it intends to accept and those it intends to reject? Does he also agree that reasons should be indicated as to why certain recommendations might be rejected and that information should be provided with regard to when and how those which are being accepted will be implemented.

The Minister indicated that eight of the recommendations in the report have been accepted. Have any been rejected?

The report contains a total of 17 recommendations in respect of my Department. As already stated, eight have been accepted and will be implemented. We believe that four or five of the others are not appropriate and I can list these for the Deputy and provide reasons as to our why we perceive them in this way.

That was the question which I asked.

Some of the recommendations will not provide the savings envisaged. The special group was interested in bringing about savings. One of its recommendations related to merging the Irish Takeover Panel with the Competition Authority. I am informed that such a merger could lead to an unnecessary policy conflict and would not be in line with best international practice. As a result, the recommendation relating to the merger must be disregarded.

There is a further recommendation relating to the Irish Auditing and Accounting Supervisory Authority, IAASA, which——

I do not believe it necessary for the Minister to read out the entire list.

I would like to hear what is happening in respect of the recommendations that have been refused.

I will supply the list to the Deputy.

I would like to allow some flexibility in respect of this matter and invite supplementary questions from other Deputies.

I will also outline for Deputy Varadkar the reasons we believe we cannot approve four of five of them.

I was about to suggest that some of the recommendations are inherently contradictory. That is why the Labour Party looked askance at some of the proposals contained in the McCarthy report. A number of those proposals, particularly that relating to the merger to which the Minister refers and which I also identified, could have serious implications. As we have discussed on previous occasions, the Competition Authority has serious work to carry out in respect of cartels, etc., and is obliged to consider what is best in that context. Does the Minister intend to deal with such matters in the context of the new legislation he intends to introduce?

I did give consideration to the recommendation that the Health and Safety Authority, HSA, and National Employment Rights Authority, NERA, be merged into a single workplace inspectorate. Again, however, radical differences arise in the context of the nature of these agencies and there are overlaps in their work. In the circumstances, we cannot see a merger becoming a reality or the savings that were envisaged eventually being made.

The McCarthy report sought a reduction of 594 in the number of staff across the Department and the various agencies. There are 5,150 whole-time equivalent posts across the Department and its agencies. The number of posts across both fell by 322 in 2009. Some 80 of these posts related to departmental civil servants. We are currently examining the annual staffing targets required by the Department of Finance for 2012. As the Deputy will appreciate, the transfer of FÁS had a significant impact on numbers within the Department. This is a matter which will now have to be taken into account by the Department of Education and Skills.

In the budget introduced in April 2009, it was stated that Competition Authority and the Consumer Agency were to be amalgamated. However, nothing has happened in the intervening 15 months. This merger was on the Government's agenda prior to any special reports being commissioned. We have been looking forward to the introduction of the relevant legislation for a long time but nothing has happened.

As Deputies Varadkar and Penrose will testify, the legislation to which the Deputy refers was before the House quite recently. We are moving forward with this matter. Emergency legislation was introduced and another major Bill is being finalised at present. I hope to be in a position to publish the latter in September or October.

I am confused by the Minister's answer. If memory serves, the legislation to which he refers is the Competition (Amendment) Act 2010, which was recently passed by the Houses and which allows the Minister to appoint, on a temporary basis, some members of the authority. The consumer and competition Bill, the purpose of which will be to merge the Consumer Agency and the Competition Authority and to extend the powers of the resultant new body, has yet to appear. My question is similar to that posed by Deputy Clune. Some 15 months have passed since the introduction of the relevant budget in April 2009. I accept that a week is a long time in politics. At present, a day is a long time in politics. However, why has it taken 15 months to draft the relevant legislation?

The process relating to drafting the relevant legislation is extremely complex and a great deal of interaction took place between the Department and the Office of the Attorney General. I have increased the staffing complement dealing with this matter in my Department by bringing on board an official from the Office of the Attorney General.

It is hoped we will now be in a better position to transpose directives and to process legislation with far greater co-ordination of activity between my Department and the Office of the Attorney General.

Michael Noonan

Question:

40 Deputy Michael Noonan asked the Minister for Enterprise; Trade and Innovation if he has given any consideration to privatising any agencies or companies within the aegis of his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24511/10]

View answer

The following agencies operate under the aegis of my Department: Enterprise Ireland, Forfás, IDA Ireland, the National Standards Authority of Ireland, Shannon Development Company, county and city enterprise boards, InterTrade Ireland, Science Foundation Ireland, the Competition Authority, the National Consumer Agency, the Irish Auditing and Accounting Supervisory Authority, the Health and Safety Authority and the Personal Injuries Assessment Board.

In general, these are statutory, non–commercial, State agencies and are for the most part reliant on Exchequer moneys to fund their activities. In some instances, the agencies generate own-resource income but this is used to defray operating expenses and so limit the requirement for Exchequer funds. The Personal Injuries Assessment Board, which is entirely self-funding, is not engaged in commercial activity designed to make profit.

The Special Report on Public Service Numbers and Expenditure Programmes, the McCarthy report, recommended the privatisation of the certification services of the NSAI. Having considered the recommendation in detail, it was not clear that any benefit would accrue to the taxpayer from such a move because of the high level of overhead costs that would remain with the NSAI following a sale of the certification business. The more likely result would be increased Exchequer cost. Accordingly, my Department has decided not to pursue this proposal at this time.

I do not believe that any of the agencies under the Department's remit are engaged in the provision of services that would be a suitable or attractive proposition for privatisation.

I welcome the Minister of State's reply. It is reasonable to say that given the profile of the State-sponsored bodies and agencies under the aegis of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Innovation none of them are appropriate for privatisation as they are not commercial entities in any real sense. I was curious to ask this question for many reasons.

It is not that long ago that the Minister, Deputy O'Keeffe, issued a statement which was critical of Fine Gael's NewEra policy on the basis that we were proposing privatisations — that is not what we were doing — and did not know how much this would raise. The Government has since then announced its intention to privatise the VHI. Will the Minister of State agree that the same applies? Is not now an inappropriate time to privatise the VHI and how much does the Minister believe will be raised from this sale? Does the Minister stand over his remarks in regard to Fine Gael's privatisation policies?

The Minister is not answerable to the House for the VHI.

I would like him to respond to my question.

The NewEra document was condemned by the Minister, Deputy O'Keeffe, and many others, including Members in Opposition parties. It counted jobs a number of times.

Deputy Bruton was not happy with it.

Please allow the Minister of State finish his reply.

It seeks to sell off the family silverware. The purpose of the sale of VHI is to deal with risk equalisation and to ensure there is competition.

No, it is not. That is rubbish.

Yes it is and this has been confirmed. The Deputy should read the statements in this regard from the Department of Health and Children.

The Government is committed to ensuring we reduce expenditure where possible. The State agencies under the remit of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Innovation are not involved in profit making. They are non-commercial State agencies that give support to many activities throughout Ireland. The agencies involved include Enterprise Ireland, the Irish Auditing and Accounting Supervisory Authority and others which are critically important in the area of supervision and supports.

I again ask the Minister of State the question the Minister asked of Fine Gael in regard to NewEra. Is it not inappropriate to privatise VHI at this time given the current state of the capital markets and how much does the Minister hope to raise from this sale? That is the question posed to Fine Gael in respect of NewEra. I would like now to hear the Minister's answer in regard to the Government's proposal to privatise VHI.

Again, the Minister is not accountable to the House for the Department of Health and Children.

I would like to hear a response from the Minister, Deputy O'Keeffe, rather than from the Minister of State, Deputy Kelleher.

The best way for this issue to be addressed is by way of parliamentary question from the Deputy as spokesperson on enterprise, trade and innovation. We can then supply the necessary answers. We cannot be held responsible for the matters relating to the VHI and Department of Health and Children posed in the questions tabled today.

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