Vol. 1029 No. 5
70. Deputy Neale Richmond asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth if he has engaged or will engage with childcare providers in Dublin on their concerns about the core funding model; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [56369/22]
What engagement has the Minister had with childcare providers in Dublin on their concerns about the new funding model?
Together for better is the new funding model that supports the delivery of early learning and childcare for the public good. It was recommended by an expert group, adopted by the Government, and has been widely welcomed by representative groups advocating for parents, children, the workforce and providers. To date, 93% of providers - well over 4,100 - have signed up. Of those, 984 are in the Dublin area.
While the large majority of representative groups and individual providers have embraced core funding, I am disappointed that one group has co-ordinated a campaign which includes calling on services to close ECCE provision on certain days. While only a small proportion of providers took part in those closures, they are not warranted considering the level of State investment taking place now. I offered to meet this group on the condition that further closures would be called off, and that offer still stands.
One of the primary demands put forward by this group is that services see an increase in the capitation from €69 to €76 per child per week for the ECCE programme, but that level of increase is already available through core funding. Core funding will now provide, at a minimum, €78.75 per week for those who sign up to core funding. There appears to be some objections to the idea of public management that is linked to the new model. In particular, there is opposition to the fee freeze and some of the requirements of financial and operational transparency.
The new funding model was designed with extensive stakeholder engagement. Since core funding was announced, my Department has hosted eight meetings of the early learning and childcare stakeholder forum and frequent meetings with provider representative groups on core funding. I have attended many of the stakeholder forum group meetings. I met with a number of representative groups over the summer and I meet regularly with individual childcare providers in my constituency and throughout the country. The city and county childcare committees have been working intensively to support services and parents. I am fully committed to working with sectoral representative groups in continuing to deliver for the sector.
I thank the Minister for that fulsome reply and the genuine approach he is taking to this issue. Like anyone in this Chamber, I very much welcome the together for better model but I do have a concern. The Minister mentioned that 93% of providers have taken up the model, but that is not the case in my constituency, Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown, where the uptake is 81%. There is an issue there and it needs to be addressed, regardless of who is co-ordinating what. I humbly ask that the Minister consider meeting childcare providers without any preconditions. Let us just have those discussions and see if we can address those key concerns. The people who are suffering, from my point of view, are those who are coming to my clinics and contacting my office. They are the parents and guardians who rely on these brilliant services and who have to take days off work, completely change their schedules or cancel medical appointments. They do not want politics; they want a solution.
We are up to 85% take-up of core funding now in Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown. That is continuing to grow, which is very positive. I know that is still slightly below the national level, but it is still a very significant level of take-up. The Deputy spoke to the disruption to parents and to children's learning from these closures. Again, I just do not believe they are necessary. I am always open to working with people. I have engaged extensively throughout Covid. My Department was extremely reactive in respect of Covid, bringing in the employment wage subsidy scheme, EWSS, for the entire sector without any preconditions. We will look to support the sector with increased energy costs through the temporary business energy support scheme, TBESS. We are very reactive. We want to support the sector. We recognise the massive underinvestment that has taken place over decades. We are responding to that. In one budget this year we have provided an additional €346 million. I hope the sector recognises my bona fides and the Government's intention to support all three elements: parents, providers and staff.
I welcome the marginal increase in the Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown area, but we have to reflect on the fact that this sector is very diverse. There is no one size fits all. I say that as someone who has kids in the sector and a wife who has been a Montessori teacher for more than a decade, usually with small independent providers. There are many issues at play with the one-size-fits-all model. General costs in Dublin are different from those in the rest of the country. We have spoken at length this morning about rising costs in respect of utilities and everything else. I have a major concern, however, that when we do not have maximum buy-in and when services are not specifically located and targeted where there is such a lack of buy-in, it takes an element of the goodness away from what the Minister has said is an amazing achievement, that is, this massive increase in funding that is so long overdue and welcome. However, it is proving very difficult in my constituency. I have dealt with providers and parents and talked to the children who go to these services. When there is this lack of joined-up thinking, sadly, it just undermines what is a wonderful initiative by the Minister and the Government.
It is a diverse sector and we want to continue that diversity. That is why we are looking to put the ECCE programme on a statutory basis. That way there will continue to be a strong role for ECCE-only providers because that is what some parents want.
In respect of the slightly lower sign-up rate in the Deputy's area, and indeed in my area, ultimately, many of the providers remain in the private sector and they make a determination as to whether they contract with us. We are not going with a takeover model. We are allowing them to make their own determinations. I believe we have made core funding as attractive as possible. It will mean services will get significantly more investment this year than last year.
There are, however, some conditions and I will stand over those conditions absolutely. We need the fee freeze and we need transparency. We are putting €1 billion into this sector. We need to understand the books, we need to understand how that is actually delivering for services, and we need the fee freeze because, without it, the additional money we are putting into the NCS will be eroded by subsequent fee increases.
71. Deputy Alan Farrell asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth if he will detail the implementation of schemes to reduce childcare costs by 25%; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [56986/22]
Tá an Teachta Richmond ag dul i gcomharbas ar an Teachta Alan Farrell don cheist seo.
On behalf of Deputy Farrell, I ask the Minister if he will detail the implementation of schemes to reduce childcare costs by 25%, a neat follow-up to what we have just discussed.
It is indeed a good follow-up. In budget 2023, I introduced major reforms to the national childcare scheme, NCS, which will substantially improve the affordability of early learning and childcare for families. I secured additional funding of €121 million to be allocated to the NCS from 1 January of next year in order that all families accessing registered early learning and childcare will receive a minimum hourly subsidy of €1.40 off the cost of early learning and childcare. The increase in the minimum hourly subsidy from 50 cent to €1.40 aims to reduce the average co-payment paid by families to providers by 25%. This means up to €3,276 off the annual cost per child. Prior to the change being brought in, up to €1,170 was met by the State. With the changes being brought in, up to an additional €2,106 per annum will be taken off the cost of childcare for each child. The exact reduction in costs will be unique to each family. It will depend on their personal circumstances and their early learning and childcare needs. From 2 January 2023, any family who is not already at the maximum hourly subsidy under the NCS will see an increase in the level of subsidy they get. The largest increase will be seen by those on a reckonable income of €60,000 and above. All families with reckonable income of €26,000 and above will see some level of increase. Families with reckonable income of €26,000 and below are already on the highest level of subsidy under the scheme.
The fee freeze in place in more than 93% of services availing of core funding gives families greater certainty as to what they will be charged and ensures these increases in the NCS subsidies will not be absorbed by fee increases.
Through a combination of these measures, I am working to ensure high-quality early learning and childcare is accessible and affordable to all, regardless of means. I know many providers have raised issues with the complexity of the NCS. We have brought together a user subgroup of the early learning and childcare stakeholder forum to start going through some of those issues whereby childcare providers themselves have access to officials in my Department and Pobal so we can start trying to clarify some of those technical issues.
The Minister's answer was perfect. I have absolutely no follow-up on the direct answer. However, when I was having a cup of coffee this morning with other parents after the drop-off, the questions were a little more granular. When will they see the impact of the change? What will the dates be? What will it amount to, not necessarily annually? Many of these people are getting by week by week, month by month.
The cost-of-living crisis faces everyone, including those who have children in the early years sector. I would appreciate by way of a supplementary answer if the Minister could perhaps delve into the details of when parents will see more money in their pockets and genuinely feel the impact of what are absolutely groundbreaking changes to the provision and funding of childcare that are long overdue and so welcome. When I meet them for coffee next week, I want to be able to say dollar and cents when they will feel this difference.
That is a fair question. They will feel it in January. That is when the NCS changes will come in. There was some discussion on whether we should phase them in and go from 50 cent to €1 in January and a bit more later on, but the whole thing is coming in from January. That is good for parents in that they will get the immediate benefit of what is on average a cut of 25% from January 2023. It is also good for providers, because when we increase the NCS subsidy, it causes additional work for providers. They have to change the amount they charge to every family on their books and that is complicated. Doing that once means they only have to change it once. It also means that, from January, parents will see that very significant investment.
It is important to say that the difference each parent will receive will be different. I have always spoken about an average 25% cut. Even advocating and communicating this is complicated because parents have different charges and different needs, but on average we are going to see a 25% cut. That is going to be very beneficial to parents.
I think of my own daughter's preschool costs with 12 kids who have completely separate childcare needs. No household looks the same anymore, thankfully, but equally, the outgoings and what they need differ. Not to be negative because that genuinely is not the intention, but I will bring it back to my geographic concern that those of us, like the Minister, who represent Dublin constituencies will not see the material and educational benefit that perhaps will be seen by other constituencies with lower costs to providers and lower costs for parents in simply getting kids to childcare facilities and in the impact of their commute. Is that going to be taken into account? Is there definite outreach? Again, I look at my constituency being behind the national take-up of the overall scheme. How can we offset that to make sure there is relative equity throughout the regions in the provision of this new scheme?
I believe some providers held off. Originally, we had an 89% national take-up. That is now up to 93%. As Deputy Richmond pointed out it was originally 81% in our constituency and now is up to 85%. That is marginal but it is moving in the right direction. This is just year 1 of core funding. Originally for year 1, when budget 2022 was announced, we had €207 million for core funding. Now for year 1, after this year's budget, it is €259 million. Even in the first year we grew the pot. I already have agreement for year 2 for an extra €28 million. One of the things that money is going to be used for is that the three-year qualification rule before a person can get the graduate subsidy will be removed. We are looking to grow the pot and do things to make core funding more attractive. I believe that, as providers see that core funding has delivered successfully and see the commitment of the Government to continue to support services, more services will sign up and we will see those numbers grow both nationally and in Dublin areas.
73. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth the extent to which he remains satisfied that the interests of children remain to the fore to the greatest extent possible in all situations where their interests may be challenged; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [56684/22]
This question relates to the extent to which children's rights, interests and safety are protected in all circumstances regardless of from where a threat may come and the ability of the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth and Tusla to intervene on their behalf as was originally intended through legislation passed by this House.
I thank Deputy Durkan. As the Minister with responsibility for children, I am committed to upholding the best interests of the child in all situations. As the Deputy knows, Ireland held the presidency of the Council of Europe this year. One of the priorities chosen for the Irish Presidency was the theme of Hear our Voices and a particular focus on youth engagement. As part of this, I hosted a conference in October focusing on the rights and the determination of the best interests of the child in parental separation and in care proceedings.
Ireland is currently undertaking a number of major reforms that aim to improve the experience of children and families involved in family court proceedings. I am working closely with my colleague the Minister for Justice, Deputy McEntee, to ensure children's best interests are at the centre of her Department's proposed family court reforms.
I have also recently overseen the enactment of the Child Care (Amendment) Act 2022. In September I commenced section 4 of that Act which reflects the intent of Article 42A of the Constitution by confirming that, in any care proceedings under the Child Care Act, the court must regard the best interests of the child as the paramount consideration. The main purpose of the Child Care (Amendment) Act 2022 is to extend and regulate the guardian ad litem system for children involved in childcare proceedings. The provisions of this Act are intended to enhance the rights of children and the capacity of the courts to make the right decisions in helping children and their families.
Importantly, my Department is also reaching the end of a lengthy and in-depth review of the Child Care Act 1991. The Child Care Act, which is not childcare as we were just discussing, is legislation that looks to promote the welfare of children who do not receive adequate care and protection within the home. We have listened carefully to the concerns and suggestions of stakeholders, including children, and we have looked at international best practice. I hope very soon after our return from the Christmas break to bring the heads of a Bill to the Government to revise and update that Act. That is another opportunity for us to make sure that the best interests principle is ingrained in all elements of childcare proceedings in the country.
I thank the Minister who I know to be a caring and conscientious Minister, as I would expect. However, there are circumstances at the moment where the interests of children are not being protected. The Minister referred to the courts and the need for the influence of Tusla there. In some cases throughout the country, Tusla has been prevented from giving evidence or influencing anything that might happen and has been disallowed in the context of its right and obligation to protect the interests of children where children’s interests are anything but to the fore. More especially, Tusla is also prevented by virtue of an in camera rule from giving evidence or taking action to protect children. I have no doubt cases will come to public attention in future that will show this up to a greater extent.
I recognise Deputy Durkan's own interest in and commitment to this issue. We have discussed it before. There is a real opportunity now due to the work the Minister for Justice, Deputy McEntee, is doing on the family courts. There are two elements to that. There is the physical element whereby family law cases should not take place in the normal District Court alongside licence renewals and minor assaults. Family law cases should be heard in a separate place or at least at a separate time to take some of the stress away from parents, children and everyone involved. In regard to the policies that are taking place within the family courts, the Deputy is correct in saying that the in camera rule creates some element of a veil in regard to what happens in proceedings relevant to children. That is why the works of such groups as the family law reporting system led by Dr. Carol Coulter is so important in giving us an understanding on an anonymised basis of what is happening within the family courts.
The Minister's knowledge on the subject is obvious. I welcome the legislation being brought forward by the Minister, Deputy McEntee. It is not before time. The problem, however, is that there are a number of children and their parents who are already victims of the system, where mothers are prevented even from meeting with the children and are subject to the most appalling hardship and disregard in regard to the children's rights and entitlements and the mothers' own rights. They have important maternal rights. At this moment, these rights are being abused. I have seen evidence to the effect that Tusla cannot decide what it should do because it is prevented from following its own conscience and responsibilities by the in camera rule.
As Deputy Durkan knows, I cannot speak to the details of the specific cases and he is not asking me to do so.
We had that very useful conference in terms of the best interests of the child principle. In particular, that was very relevant because the conference was about using that principle in the types of cases the Deputy is talking about. Tusla, my Department and the Ombudsman for Children were present, and it was a very good opportunity to get a common understanding and a better understanding of the approaches that need to be taken to vindicate the best interests of the child. Hopefully, as the Minister, Deputy McEntee, brings in her reforms as to where these cases take place but also the processes around them, we can start to better weave in the best interests principle in all court cases going forward.
74. Deputy Pa Daly asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth if he will provide details of recent HIQA inspections of IPAS-contracted properties. [56573/22]
Following on from the Minister's previous reply, my question is in regard to what will be the extent of the HIQA inspections that are to be carried out before Christmas and how many of the centres will be inspected. In the meantime, I want to know what staff are Garda vetted, whether they have any child protection training and whether there have been reports of assaults in those places. Should we be concerned?
As the Deputy is aware following our earlier discussions, we are working with HIQA to implement the commitment for HIQA to monitor International Protection Accommodation Service, IPAS, centres against national standards adopted in 2019 and in effect since the beginning of 2021. Planning is well advanced on this process. Detailed work is being undertaken by my Department, in consultation with the Office of the Attorney General, to provide the necessary legal basis for HIQA's monitoring role. The aim is that this will be done by means of regulation by statutory instrument.
As part of the development of the inspection process, HIQA established an advisory group comprising members from my Department and other stakeholder organisations. My Department holds monthly meetings with HIQA to advance this project.
Ahead of commencing inspections of all permanent centres, HIQA will conduct a series of pilot inspections and it is envisaged that these pilot inspections will take place before the end of the year. As I said, early next year we will be looking for the overall process of inspections to be rolled out. IPAS accommodation centres are currently subject to regular unannounced inspections both by departmental officials and by the independent inspectorate company that I spoke about earlier.
People working in international protection accommodation would require to be Garda vetted because many of these centres would have children present.
I thank the Minister for the reply but the devil is in the detail. Does the Minister know how many pilot schemes will be rolled out before Christmas? I know the Minister mentioned unannounced inspections but when does he propose that all of the centres, which are in effect permanent, will be subject to regular HIQA inspections or when will they all have been inspected? The Minister said the staff would be required to be Garda vetted but are those working there actually Garda vetted? Is the Minister saying that all the staff currently there are Garda vetted?
The report on the accommodation crisis prepared by the Irish Refugee Council states that health, child safety and child protection are paramount. This is one of the greatest concerns, especially given the week we have had, and the protection of children is very important. How many inspectors are there? Primarily, I want to nail down the exact number of pilot schemes and find out when all centres will have been inspected. Can the Minister guarantee that all of the staff are vetted?
My understanding is that all staff working in centres should be Garda vetted but I will come back to the Deputy on that because I do not want to say something on the record that I cannot 100% stand over. We do not know how many HIQA pilot inspections are planned to take place. Again, these pilot inspections are to give HIQA an understanding, once it rolls out the full scheme of inspections in the new year, of how they will work and how they will operationalise. Again, I can come back to the Deputy with further information on that point.
All centres that exist at the moment are inspected twice a year by officials from my Department and once a year by the inspectorate company, QTS. These are a mix of announced and unannounced visits, and it is particularly important that we have those unannounced visits to ensure that, at all times, standards are as they should be.
The particular concern is about minors, young people and those who are of disputed age, some of whom may have serious medical and physical conditions. Has the Minister been notified about assaults of any type in any of the centres or has that come to his attention? Are all unaccompanied minors given a social worker or placed in local authority care when they are in the centres? The staff should be Garda vetted, and the Minister will come back to me in that regard. Do any of the staff receive child protection training in advance of or concurrent with Garda vetting?
There have been assaults in international protection centres and when there is an assault, my Department would be notified. Obviously, it is initially a matter for the Garda. If someone under the age of 18 is involved, either as a victim or a perpetrator, then Tusla would be involved as well.
In terms of the question about child protection, again, it is my understanding that child protection training is part of the necessary processes that are undertaken. Certainly, centre managers would require child protection training in terms of the level of engagement they have with families. Again, I am on my feet in the House now but I can come back to the Deputy with the detail in terms of an assurance on Garda vetting and with clarity in terms of which members of staff receive the child protection training.
I appreciate that was not the initial question.
76. Deputy Neale Richmond asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth when parents who use childminders will be able to benefit from the reduction in childcare fees; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [56370/22]
110. Deputy Fergus O'Dowd asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth the steps that are being considered to ensure that childminders can access much-needed supports under the national childcare scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [56487/22]
121. Deputy Alan Dillon asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth if his attention has been drawn to the fact that childminders cannot access supports available under the national childcare scheme. [56977/22]
124. Deputy Pádraig O'Sullivan asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth if he will provide an update on the childminding steering group; when he expects the group to publish its report; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [56700/22]
I want to ask when the parents who use childminders will be able to benefit from the flagged cuts to childcare costs.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 76, 110, 121 and 124 together.
The National Action Plan for Childminding 2021-2028 commits to opening the national childcare scheme to childminders at the earliest possible opportunity, although it will be necessary first to develop and introduce childminder-specific regulations and to give childminders adequate time and support to meet regulatory requirements. The Childcare Support Act 2018, which provides a statutory basis for the national childcare scheme, specifies that only Tusla-registered providers are eligible to participate in the national childcare scheme. The restriction of public funding to Tusla-registered providers helps ensure that funding is only provided where there is assurance of the quality of provision.
Childminders who are currently minding four or more preschool children, or seven or more children of any age, are already required to register with Tusla and can already access the increased subsidies for parents announced in budget 2023. While only a small number of childminders are currently registered with Tusla, it is intended that the national action plan for childminding will result in the opening up of the national childcare scheme to a much wider cohort of childminders.
The overall objective of the national action plan is to improve access to high quality and affordable early learning and care and school-age childcare through childminding. To do this, the action plan sets out an incremental and supportive pathway to reform. Phase 1 of the national action plan, which began in 2021, is expected to take two to three years to complete. Phase 1 includes: development of new, childminder-specific regulations that are proportionate and appropriate to the home environment in which childminders work; development and roll-out of new, bespoke training for childminders; amendment of primary legislation to enable childminders to register with Tusla; and re-examining the funding and financial supports available for childminders.
A steering group was formed in September 2021 to drive and monitor implementation of the commitments in the national action plan.
The steering group is chaired by my Department and includes representation of childminders, parents and other key stakeholders. The steering group is supported by four advisory groups, membership of which also includes representation of childminders, parents and stakeholders. The steering group provides strategic direction for the national action plan, drawing on the advice of the advisory groups. It advises my Department on policy, as well as regulatory and budgetary measures to ensure effective implementation, and it monitors risks and identifies measures to mitigate those risks. The steering group is required to submit an annual progress report to me. I am looking forward to receiving its first annual progress report in the near future.
Since coming into office, I have been committed to seeing this process through. A great deal of work still lies ahead. This is a complicated matter. There are thousands of individuals who are doing valuable work supporting parents, families and children. We want the parents using those services to be able to avail of the NCS but we need an element of regulations and some guarantees in terms of quality and basic standards. We are seeking to design appropriate regulations. We cannot apply to childminders the regulations that we apply to service-based childcare. We have to make it attractive for them to come into that process. That is why we are working closely with representative bodies to explain what we are doing, get a sense of which regulations can or cannot apply, and seek to roll that out. We are seeking to make it attractive and get childminders signed up. Once they are signed up and registered with Tusla, the parents who use them will be able to start to draw down the NCS.
I want to pick up on the Minister's final point. I get that this is complicated. There is no square peg in a round hole when it comes to childminders. It is often the case that when childminders are being used, it is because there are no other suitable childcare options. There could be many good reasons for that, such as the size of a family, work patterns or kids being at different stages of education. Putting a 12-year-old or an 11-year-old into afterschool care is not really desirable but, equally, leaving such a child at home alone is not feasible.
The Minister can correct me if I am wrong. Phase 1, which involves two to three years for developing the regulation, kicked off in September 2021, so we are looking at September 2023 or September 2024 before it is completed. The crux of my question is when parents currently using childminders who are not in the situation the Minister mentioned in terms of minding more than four or seven kids and already being registered with Tusla will genuinely be able to make the most of what has been an expansive and welcome shift in funding when it comes to childcare models? Can the Minister provide specific dates in that regard?
The very small number of parents who are using childminders registered with Tusla are able to avail of it already. The Deputy stated that the first phase is set out until 2024. I have asked my officials to see if we can condense that phase as much as possible. I am conscious that many parents using childminders will see the support that parents using centre-based care are getting and will justifiably ask why they are not being supported too. I have asked the officials to work to get those regulations in place more quickly. I cannot give guarantees, however, in respect of the sign-up of childminders because they have to opt to undertake this regulation process. We are making it a simpler process. We are going to make it as attractive to them as possible but, ultimately, they have to make the determination. The childminder representative groups say there is an element of fear in the context of being regulated. We are seeking to do this in a processed way but not rush it because if we rush it, there may be a risk of losing people from even engaging.
If legislative change is required, the whole House would get behind that to enact it as quickly as possible, although not in a rushed manner, of course. That is welcome. It goes to the nature of child minding. It is quite an ad hoc profession. It is not necessarily a role a person enters directly; it is something that many people fall into and it becomes a good fit because it is flexible. This comes to the crux of getting people to sign up. My late mother did it for four or five years. It fit around where she was in her professional career. There is a need to be flexible to make it attractive to people who decide it suits them because they have their own children. Let us be frank, it is generally women who are taking up these roles. Although speed is of the essence when we are designing regulation, a level of flexibility aimed at childminders will ensure that parents who avail of childminders will be able to get the best bang for their buck as well.
The Deputy is correct that many people - it is primarily women - who enter childminding do so on an ad hoc basis. What we are talking about here, however, is that when the ad hoc basis is supported by State money through the NCS and we are providing a subsidy towards that, we have to have guarantees in terms of the quality of provision. There has to be something of that kind when it come to any investment of State money. That is why we need this regulatory framework. It is designed around the reality of childminders. As I stated, we are not transporting what we use for centre-based regulation; it will be quite different and it will be simplified. It does need to be in place, however, if we are to offer support under the NCS. It is about designing that as quickly as possible and, as I stated, I have asked the officials to do so. There has to be consultation in that process, however. Childminders are a diverse group. We work closely with Childminding Ireland but the child-minding ecosphere is much broader than that and it is difficult to reach all elements of it. We are working to do so, however. We are working to get those regulations done as quickly as possible. Once that is done, we will work to sign up those who wish to sign up and make the NCS available to the parents who are using their childminding services.
83. Deputy Kathleen Funchion asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth the degree to which he remains satisfied with the current arrangement that sees private for-profit foster care companies fulfilling the Government’s obligation in respect of children in care; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [56886/22]
My question relates to the care system and the degree to which the Minister remains satisfied with the current arrangement under which private for-profit foster care companies are fulfilling the Government's obligation in respect of children in care.
Foster care is the preferred option for children who cannot live with their parents or guardians. Approximately 89% of children in care are currently being cared for by foster carers, enabling them to live in a safe, secure and stable home environment. Foster care provision in an Irish context can be described as general foster care or relative foster care. In the case of general foster care, this can, in turn, be provided by foster carers who are engaged directly by Tusla, or by foster carers who work with private foster care agencies.
Non-statutory foster care agencies are governed by the same legislation, regulations and standards as statutory foster care services provided by Tusla. Tulsa, through its alternative care inspection and monitoring services, is responsible for the monitoring of private non-statutory foster care agencies, in compliance with the national standards for foster care of 2003. In addition, HIQA undertakes regulatory inspections of the non-statutory foster care agencies, and the findings of these inspections can inform governance and regulatory activities.
I am fully conscious that over-reliance on private providers in any context brings with it certain inherent risks. In this context, the Deputy may be aware of the relevant commitments on this issue in Tusla's strategic plan for foster care services for children and young people from 2022 to 2025. As part of recommendation 3 of the plan, Tusla has committed to reviewing the use of private foster care providers and developing a clear scope for the use of such agencies. In addition, I welcome Tusla's commitment in recommendation 3 to examine the potential for using private foster agencies for specific placement types with more robust service level agreements to reference the rates of fostering allowance and support services for foster carers. As I stated, I very much welcome the commitments within the plan in respect of the use of private foster care agencies, in addition to the numerous other commitments in the plan to improve foster care services for children and young people in care across all models of foster care provision.
I am asking the question because a reply we recently received to a parliamentary question illustrated that up to 6 August this year, €19 million was spent on private services and 485 children, or 9.3%, were placed with non-statutory fostering agencies, that is, the private for-profit agencies. The figures released yesterday in respect of Tusla and the high turnover of staff further indicate that something is not working in the system.
We do not want a situation where children are going into these private fostering arrangements. One situation I have across a lot, and I have had a number of good conversations, in fairness, with Tusla regarding it, is where family members, particularly grandparents, want to foster. There is some sort of breakdown or it just does not seem to be working. It is not that such family members are deemed ineligible but they do not seem to qualify. They are trying to keep the children within the family and a home environment but they do not always qualify for the payment. That is very difficult, particularly if people are at an age where they have retired, their family is raised and they are not necessarily going to be working again. We need to try to examine this because it is clearly not working at present. I apologise to the Acting Chair for going over time.
Tusla is doing a very significant piece of work on the whole area of alternative care. It is bringing forward three key documents, namely, the document on residential care that was published a couple of months ago, the foster care plan we talked about that has just been published, and a document on aftercare. These are the three core elements of alternative care. It might be useful to dedicate a sitting of the Joint Committee on Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, once the third document has been published, to a discussion all three documents. There are real challenges for Tusla. The foster care plan is very important in respect of Tusla recognising there are challenges regarding its recruitment and retention of staff and its support of foster carers. I attended the Irish Foster Care Association, IFCA, conference two weeks ago and spoke about my determination to address a number of issues regarding the weekly rate foster carers are paid and other issues around mileage allowances, the availability of the back to school allowance and the like. It is those things that make it a little more difficult for each foster parent. It is about seeing how we can address those issues as quickly as possible.
The joint committee looked at the issue of foster care. I cannot remember if the Minister has appeared before it regarding this topic but I think we have potentially slotted him in at some point. He should expect an invitation. The committee has looked at this issue and has not finished all its hearings on it. I definitely agree there needs to be a more joined-up approach and thinking because the other side of it is we have people we can potentially keep out of the foster care system. That is ultimately what we want to see. We should consider tying in the home support services Tusla runs with the school liaison service and so on. We always need to tap into services, such as school completion, for which I am a big advocate. That is also part of it, when we are trying to avoid the foster care system at all costs.
When we looked at this issue at the joint committee, Senator Ruane made some very good points about supports for families who do not want to see their children go into foster care. Maybe something has happened in their lives and they are trying to get back on the right track but they are not always given the level of support they may need. A piece of work needs to be done on how we bring it all together. It always worries me that we may take the privatisation road when we do anything. Going down the route of private, for-profit agencies is not where I would like to go. I do not think the Minister would like to see us going down that road either.
I would certainly be happy to engage with the joint committee on this issue. We can continue to be reasonably proud as country that when children are taken into care, 89% of them go to foster care rather than residential. That is a strong proportion compared to other European countries. We want to avoid any child going into care but where it is necessary, it is good that it is in a family home and, as the Deputy said, it is foster care by relatives. We need to support those foster carers. Having engaged and spoken with IFCA - I will meet another group soon - I know it does not feel sufficiently supported. I outlined at the IFCA conference the steps taken by the Government and my Department to do more, including my engagement with other colleagues. The Tusla plan puts a clear roadmap forward for how we can better support foster parents. As I said, I am happy to engage with the joint committee and hear what the Deputy has heard regarding what steps we can take.
90. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth if he is satisfied that adequate support exists for all children insofar as is possible who might be subjected to a threat from any quarter; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [56685/22]
I raise a subject similar to that referenced in a previous question. I recently had occasion to see what I considered an incorrect application of the in camera rule to Tusla, which prevented it from investigating and fully supporting children who might be at risk.
As the Deputy is aware, responsibility for the delivery of child protection and welfare services is a matter for Tusla, the Child and Family Agency. The Children First Act 2015 provides for a number of key child protection measures, including raising awareness of child abuse and neglect, providing for mandated reporting of child protection concerns and improving child protection arrangements in organisations providing services to children. Under the Act, mandated persons are required to report child protection concerns at or above a defined threshold to Tusla. Mandated persons are people who have contact with children or families or both and who, because of their qualifications, training or employment role or both, are in a key position to help protect children from harm. Organisations classed as providers of relevant services under the Act are required to undertake a risk assessment and develop a child safeguarding statement setting out the procedures in place to manage any risk identified.
The Children First Act operates side by side with the non-statutory obligations provided for in Children First: National Guidance for the Protection and Welfare of Children. The guidance sets out how reports about reasonable concerns of child abuse or neglect should be made by the general public and professionals to Tusla and what organisations need to do to keep children safe. If a child appears to be at risk of harm or neglect, the concerns should be reported to Tusla. Anyone can report a concern about a child to Tusla, and information on how to do so is available on the Tusla website. If a child is at immediate risk or in danger, An Garda Síochána should be alerted without delay.
Tusla acts urgently on notification of an immediate risk to a child. Children who are in a situation of immediate risk may initially be dealt with by An Garda Síochána or by Tusla but, in the main, both agencies work together in such cases. Tusla has an out-of-hours emergency number for An Garda Síochána, which provides advice based on the circumstances and can also identify whether a child of concern is listed on the child protection notification system, CPNS, a Tusla-owned secure database that lists children who are considered to be at ongoing risk of significant harm.
I thank the Minister for the extended nature of his reply and his understanding of the issue. In the past couple of days, I received notice from Tusla to the effect that I would not be allowed to attend a case conference because there was an objection. That was a surprise because my only interest in it was to ensure that the rights of the child and parents were preserved. Over the years, like the Leas-Cheann Comhairle, I have attended the Royal Courts of Justice and most other courts, including the family law courts, to give evidence on behalf of what I believed were deserving cases. I was always welcomed and I did not lose in my intervention either. The position now remains for Tusla to exert itself in such a way as to ensure that, without doubt, we are absolutely assured of its intention to preserve and assert, in all circumstances, the rights of the child in these particular circumstances.
I am sure the Deputy will understand that I am reluctant to comment in the House on the specific details of a case I am not at all familiar with. I am happy to engage with him should he wish to give me an update. Unlike him, with his degree of experience, I have not attended a Tusla conference as an elected representative so I am not quite sure what the processes and procedures are there. I am happy to discuss this further with the Deputy, if he believes it is necessary.
I should mention that I also attended the Old Bailey and, again, was always welcomed. To be told by an organisation of the State, with specific powers on behalf of the State to protect specific people, in this instance, children, I was amazed at such a response. I ask the Minister to take a look at the degree to which Tusla is being overshadowed by other Departments in this regard in order that it might pursue its responsibilities.
I will engage with the Deputy and look into that matter further. His interventions will always be welcome.
