asked the Taoiseach if in the light of the findings of the Compton Commission he proposes to discuss the matters referred to with the British authorities.
2.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Compton Report.
1.
andMr. Moore asked the Taoiseach what action he intends taking arising from the recently published Compton report and if he will make a general statement on the matter.
3.
asked the Taoiseach if he is now in a position to say whether a definite decision has been taken to raise the terms of the Compton Report at the European Commission of Human Rights.
I propose, with your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, to take Questions Nos. 1, 2 and 3 together.
The Government are gravely concerned by the allegations of brutality, torture, inhuman and degrading treatment and unlawful deprivation of life in the North—concern which has not in any way been alleviated by the Compton report. The work of collecting and evaluating evidence to support a reference to the European Commission of Human Rights is nearing completion and the Government will take a decision within a matter of days.
Can the Tánaiste say whether, independently of any question of referring the matter to the European Commission on Human Rights, it is proposed to make an official protest on the matter to the British Government?
The Government have let their attitude towards brutality be known but I am answering a question in regard to the human rights situation. I should say that the procedure at the Commission of Human Rights is lengthy and time consuming and that a decision to raise the details of the Compton Report and to bring evidence of brutality to the notice of the Commission would, in the first place, have no immediate specific effect on the practice of British security forces when carrying out detention and interrogation; moreover, the Government have been engaged on the diplomatic front and through public speeches on the far more urgent task of exhorting the British Government to promulgate political short and long term solutions which are of crucial and vital importance to the future of the Northern Ireland community. A debate on this matter in the House indicated a general concensus of opinion. In view of what I have said, the House will understand the need for preparing as fully as possible all the evidence and arguments before taking a decision. A decision on the matter will be taken within five or six days.
I appreciate that. Is it proposed formally to make a protest to the British Government about the manner in which the Compton investigation was conducted and the general findings in the report?
The Government will be considering that matter.
My question was to ask the Taoiseach if it is his intention to have discussions with the British Government on this matter. Is the Taoiseach seeking a meeting with the British Prime Minister on the matter?
I think that at the moment the more important question is that of the short and long term solution of the Northern problem.
Would the Tánaiste not agree that, important though that is, there is an element of urgency about requesting the British Government to abandon the methods of interrogation they are using and will the Government take immediate action to ask the British Government to so act?
Certainly, we would if we thought it would be effective but then the British Government have had the Compton Report and they know very well that that report dealt only with incidents up to 9th August. They have taken no steps whatever to introduce any other form of inquiry or intervention in regard to this matter.
Can we take it that the Taoiseach did as I did on Friday last —convey to Mr. Wilson my views and the views of my Party on the Compton Report? I suppose it is correct to assume that Mr. Wilson reported to Mr. Heath. According to the news media he did. Can I take it that the Government, through the Taoiseach, made their views known to Mr. Wilson while he was here?
All these matters were discussed with Mr. Wilson, the former British Labour Prime Minister, while he was here. The question of brutality and all these other questions were discussed.
And a protest made?
Yes.
Is the Tánaiste aware that this matter is more serious than has been indicated either in the Compton Report or in the Press? Is he aware that there is a deliberate attempt by the British Army to intimidate the civilian population in the North? British soldiers who are detailed for duty in Northern Ireland regard themselves as going on an expedition of "Paddy bashing" as they refer to it and this is an indication that they are actually being trained for this purpose. It will only be a matter of a very short time before people will be saying that the only British soldiers we want here are dead ones.
We cannot have a speech on this question.
I am well aware of this, but as the House will appreciate, the bringing of this matter before the European Commission of Human Rights cannot influence the British Government in any act they may undertake or cannot change the performance of the British security forces during detention manoeuvres and in relation to interrogation, because it is a long-term examination which can last for as long as 12 months or two years.
Question No. 4.
Irrespective of reference to the Human Rights Commission, should there not be direct representation made immediately to the British Prime Minister on this matter, more particularly as there have been serious allegations that in the past fortnight such methods still remained an integral part of interrogation procedures, namely, the extraction of information by means of violence? This must stop and surely we must demand its cessation.
Would the Tánaiste kindly tell the House what he means when he says that the bringing of this matter before the European Commission of Human Rights will not influence the British Government? Surely he is aware that it is only public opinion, and especially world opinion when such opinion turns against them, that can change the attitude of the British Government? Are Fianna Fáil afraid of embarrassing the British Government?
I have said there may be some propaganda effect from bringing this matter before the Commission of Human Rights; it might perhaps influence the British Government to conduct an immediate inquiry on their own; but it does not necessarily have any immediate practical effect because it is an extremely lengthy procedure. All the evidence will take months to be presented to whoever the persons are who are elected to examine this brutality.
(Interruptions.)
Would the Tánaiste accept that this is precisely why we feel that the Government should take immediate action to talk to the British Government about it directly and to ask them to abandon these methods? It is just because it is going to take such a long time that it is necessary to take that kind of action immediately.
Naturally, when the Government make a final examination of this matter they will take into account all the relevant considerations, including our immediate diplomatic procedures in relation to the British Government. Quite naturally we will do this.
Question No. 4.
How many days of further ill-treatment will there be before that decision is taken?
We appreciate the way the Government are handling this matter, but may I ask the Tánaiste if they will consider taking this matter not only to Strasbourg but to the United Nations in order to show once again the atrocities being committed by the British Army in the Six Counties and to try to focus world attention on the Black-and-Tan methods the British are using in the North?
Arising out of the Tánaiste's reply to Deputy Dr. O'Connell's question in particular, the Tánaiste said that there were more important matters to discuss than these. That may be, but would the Tánaiste not agree that the question of internment without trial has an integral connection with the whole range of political problems in the North and is, in fact, the barrier in the log-jam now and that the Government ought to be getting down to a discussion with the British Government, as asked in Deputy Dr. O'Connell's question about this? Would the Tánaiste not agree to all that?
The Government have approached the British Government on all these matters, including internment and including long-term and short-term solutions. All this has been indicated in the course of the debate we had in this House. The Government have never ceased making all possible diplomatic approaches and leading members of the Government have made speeches in regard to what they consider to be the short- and long-term solution of this problem.
Complete complacency.
Question No. 4.
Is it not obvious now that the publication of the Compton Report highlights the gravity of the methods that have been adopted to such an extent that responsible organs in Britain condemn the British Government on this matter?
That is a fact and, as I have said, the Government within the next five or six days will make their final decision and they will take into account all the relevant matters mentioned in this House, whether it will be possible or wise to bring the matter to the attention of the United Nations, whether it would serve any purpose, what steps should be taken in relation to the British Government and all the matters concerning these brutalities.