asked the Minister for Health if the review of nurses' pay has been completed by the National Joint Council; and, if so, the result of such review, together with details of the possible retrospective payment to nurses.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Nurses' Pay Review.
28.
A scheme of conciliation and arbitration is available to the nursing profession. I am aware that this scheme is greatly valued by the representatives of organised nurses. Following the expression towards the end of last year of dissatisfaction among the nursing profession, with the unanimous agreement of all the representatives of the organised nurses, a special conciliation committee was established under the scheme to carry out a full scale review of the pay and conditions and the status of the profession. All the parties concerned are determined that the committee will complete its work at the earliest possible date.
I would mention, for the information of the House, that there was a pay settlement in September last year involving increases ranging up to 15 per cent in addition to the standard increases provided for in the National Pay Agreement. When I met the representatives of all the organisations catering for nurses last December, in an effort to improve the atmosphere in which the work of the special committee could take place, I offered to provide funds to give an additional element of retrospection for part of this settlement. This offer was accepted by all parties as being contingent on going through the necessary procedures under the Conciliation and Arbitration Scheme, to ensure compliance with the terms of the National Agreement. I am informed that the necessary procedures have now been almost completed and I expect that the arrears will be paid immediately following the meeting of the Staff Negotiations Board on 8 March.
The special conciliation committee which has been set up to investigate the principles which should govern the remuneration of nurses and certain other staff presents a unique opportunity for the profession; it provides a forum in which to establish the place of the nurse and the other staff concerned in the community. On my own behalf and on behalf of the management side, I have given an unequivocal commitment to support its work to the full.
Would the Minister say whether the sweetener, as it was described at the time, which was publicised last Christmas as a special payment to nurses has yet been paid?
That is what I am dealing with in the reply. It is a retrospective 5 per cent. It was my hope and my intention that it would have been paid at Christmas time but, unfortunately, and mainly because of the views of the representatives of the nurses' organisations it had to be processed through the full machinery. It will certainly be paid within the week commencing 8 March.
It will definitely be paid?
Yes.
Is the Minister saying the representatives of the nurses' organisations held up the payment?
I am not saying they held it up. The Government sanctioned it. The Deputy will recall that we provided money in last year's estimate for this payment, but the representatives of the nurses' organisation were anxious that it should be processed through the conciliation and arbitration machinery. Unfortunately that was the principal cause of the delay in having it paid.
In relation to the main part of the question, the Minister and the House will recall a debate here before Christmas. It was suggested that this body could be in an industrial dispute with the Minister by the end of March unless there were specific proposals in relation to their pay and conditions. Is the Minister aware of moves which appear to be afoot to bring that matter to a head? Can he say if any action is envisaged by his Department to head off that very undesirable situation?
I am very concerned about the situation and I am in constant touch with the different representatives of the nursing profession about it. It is a complex situation. As the Deputy knows, early on in the proceedings I offered the nurses an opportunity to proceed on two different fronts. On the one hand, I offered them a special commission to look into their status and their relative position in the community. Side by side with that, I suggested that they could go to conciliation and arbitration on pay. That proposal, which I still think was probably the best, was rejected by the nursing profession.
Surprise, surprise.
In its place, with the universal agreement of all the representatives of all the nursing organisations, we established this conciliation and arbitration committee. That committee is doing both jobs. It is evaluating the status of nurses in the overall situation and, at the same time, dealing with pay and conditions. I hope it will be able to report fairly quickly, but it has a very important task. I think the Deputy will support me in this. It offers a unique opportunity to the nursing profession, which they were looking for, to get a full-scale investigation, assessment and evaluation of their situation. Many people on the representative side of the nurses' organisations think it is worth while taking time over that. However, I know nurses in some areas are anxious for some more immediate results. There is a meeting tomorrow of the special conciliation committee at which I hope the situation will be brought forward a bit further.
Question No. 29.
This is a very serious matter. We are all aware that there has been a threat of industrial action by a certain date. I am sure nobody in the House wants that to happen. Can the Minister hold out any hope that before the month of March is over some specific proposals or set of proposals will be put forward?
There will be a specific proposal.
Otherwise I am very much afraid the Minister will be in a very unhappy situation at the end of March.
I can deal only with the representatives of the organised profession.
I know that.
It would create more confusion if I were to start dealing with unorganised elements in the profession.
I am not suggesting that.
My people and I are proceeding as rapidly as possible, and in full co-operation with the representatives of the profession, to try to get this matter dealt with quickly and expeditiously. That is all I can do. As I said, there will be a meeting of the special committee tomorrow at which I would hope the situation will be advanced a bit further than it is at present.
Does the Minister realise he is running out of time?
It is not I who is running out of time. The Deputy must admit I have done everything I possibly could.
The Minister did not establish the special commission they looked for in the first place.
The Deputy must admit I have done everything I possibly could. I have given the nurses everything their representatives asked for.
I cannot accept that.
In what way have I not?
The nurses' organisation specifically asked at the outset for the setting up of a special commission equivalent to the commission established for the Garda. That is what they did not get.
They did not.
We must proceed.
I want to deal with these questions, which are very important. The nursing profession throughout the country will be alert to the answers I am giving and I want to give full answers. The question Deputy Boland has just asked deserves an answer. My answer is that the special commission to which he referred was not asked for by all the professions.
I said the nurses' organisation.
It was asked for by one organisation representing nurses, but it was not asked for, nor do I think it would have been accepted, by the remaining bodies.
The main body, the Irish Nurses' Organisation.
The other bodies would not have accepted it, and I have to deal with all bodies.
I am talking about the INO.
I have to deal with all the bodies representing the nurses. I do not think the Deputy would expect me to try to divide them. I have to try to get all the bodies representing the nurses to agree with whatever I propose. I have done that.
The Minister would never defy anyone.
The remaining questions will appear on tomorrow's Order Paper.