Vol. 431 No. 7
10 Mrs. Doyle asked the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht whether he intends to take any action to ensure that school buildings and facilities will be made available to community groups for arts and cultural requirements.
I would refer the Deputy to the reply given by the Minister for Education to a similar question on 27 April 1993. In her reply the Minister pointed out that the making available of school facilities to the general public is primarily a matter for the school management authorities but that she is keen to encourage greater public access to their facilities. Her Department has circulated all schools urging a positive approach on this issue.
I would fully support the Minister for Education's approach to this issue and I will be asking the Minister to bear in mind the potential of these facilities for arts and culture purposes.
I welcome the Minister's positive response to this question. We have good resources in school buildings and facilities that should be more accessible, and available, for example to arts and cultural groups. Would the Minister in his discussions with the Minister for Education consider the practical issue of insurance? I understand this is a barrier to groups using schools. It is time we addressed this issue and opened up those resources. We should not have buildings which are not used at certain hours of the day. The Minister in a previous discussion referred to the army of parents who bring young children to a variety of arts, music and drama lessons around the country and the demands this creates as this area is not adequately addressed within our education system. It would be a welcome development by many people here if this area could also form part of the Minister's discussions with the Minister for Education.
Question Time is a positive exercise. I would like to see take place without undue delay the type of activities Deputy Fitzgerald describes. I have spoken about what I call "purchased child improvement sessions" operated by an army of mostly women outside the school day. Surely we must aim to ensure that those creative activities take place within the school day. In my discussions with the Minister for Education in preparation for the White Paper I have made that point. It is a view I have made public. I wish to see creative activities within a democratic theory of culture located within the curriculum and take place during the school day. I wish to take up the issue of insurance. I sometimes wonder at the number of times I have heard the excuse of insurance being used to defeat worthy projects that have come forward. I take the Deputy's point and I will discuss it further with the Minister for Education. It may need to be discussed too, with the Minister for Finance. We should never forget our school buildings, they are paid for out of taxation and they are supported and often initiated by local communities. There is sometimes a great fog, and I wonder if it is accidental, as to who operates them. They should be used for community benefit.
Tá suim agam sa mhéid a bhí le rá ag an Aire agus, atá mar a fhios aige féin, tá go leor foirgnimh ar fud na nGaeltachtaí a bhíonn in úsáid i gcaitheamh an tsamhraidh mar choláistí samhraidh Gaeilge agus a bhíonn ina luí díomhaoin an chuid eile den bhliain. An bhféadfadh sé an moladh céanna a dhéanamh chomh fada agus a bhaineann sé leis na coláistí seo, go bhféadfaí imeachtaí sóisialta agus cultúrtha a chur ar siúl iontu i gcaitheamh an gheimhridh, go speisialta. An dtabharfaidh sé tacaíocht d'údaráis na gcoláistí ó thaobh árachais agus mar sin de fá choinne scéimeanna dá leithéid a chur ar bun?
Ní chuirfeadh sé aon stró orm féin dul chun cainte leis na coistí éagsúla dá gcabhródh sé sin leo. Ní féidir liom, mar a thuigeann an Teachta aon ghealltanas a thabhairt faoi chursaí airgid sula mbeidh an cheist ar fad iniúctha agam. Glacaim leis go bhfuil foirgnimh ann a rachadh sé le leas an phobail iad a bheith in úsáid. Chomh maith leis sin caithfimid a choinneáil san áireamh i gcónaí nuair atáimid ag cur áiseanna ar fáil sna Gaeltachtaí do pháistí atá ag teacht isteach ón Ghalltacht, go mbíonn áiseanna ag teastáil ó dhaltaí sa Ghaeltacht féin. Ach, má thagann na coistí éagsúla chugam déanfaidh mé iarracht an cheist a phlé leo agus b'fhéidir freastal ar na riachtanais, más amhlaidh, sa scéal.
Would the Minister accept that a good deal of art activity as described by the Minister and Deputy Fitzgerald could and should take place in school buildings and that much of it could happen if school managers and school principals had school caretakers to take care of the practical needs of keeping school buildings open after school hours? The Minister should take that point on board also because I know he is committed to making that happen.
My colleague, the Minister for Education, is addressing issues of disadvantage as one of her priorities. She is giving the emphasis to her decisions in relation to putting the children first. She will be examining the issue of caretakers on which she will have the final decision. I agree that the use of these buildings will be of great benefit to local communities. All Members should have the courage to agree that these places we call schools are, in fact, public buildings paid for by the public and they should be available for use by the public. Any influence I have in this matter will follow that philosophy which is a democratic one.
B'fhéidir go bhfuil an tAire ag cuimhneamh siar ar an tráth nuair a bhíomar go léir sa Seanad — agus an Teachta Connor chomh maith. Bhí díospóireacht íontach againn ar rún a leag an tAire é féin ar son Pháirtí an Lucht Oibre os comhair an tSeanaid ar an Benson report.
Perhaps the Minister can recall a time when he, Deputy Connor and myself debated a Labour Party motion in the Seanad on the state of the arts in Irish education in song and dance. That excellent debate was totally depoliticised and we faced up to the fact that the state of the arts in Irish education was quite abysmal.
Would the Minister agree that in the intervening period there has not been any substantial improvement in the state of the arts in Irish education? Also, from the point of view of his welcome commitment to 24-hour vitality to school buildings, will the Minister indicate a finite date by which this basically logistical problem of school insurance can be overcome? As the Minister said, it is wrong that billions of pounds worth of resources are tied up for four and half months of the year, and virtually 16 hours of every day, and not used for the benefit of the community.
I wish to make it perfectly clear that I am not here today to make financial commitments. I cannot make them in relation to insurance for school buildings; that is a matter for my colleague, the Minister for Education and I agree it may go beyond her remit. I indicated clearly my thinking on the matter and what I will seek to resolve.
I was asked a straightforward question about the 1979 Benson report. This was followed by "Dances and Dance" and other reports included "Deaf Ears". They all dealt with various areas of the arts. If ever there was a justification for my Department it would be to seek to implement those reports because there is a great distinction between having a cultural and an arts policy and operating on an ad hoc basis. It is a distinction that a former Member of this House, Dr. Conor Cruise O'Brien, described on one occasion as the distinction between being a patron for the arts and patronising the arts. I am strongly in favour of a policydriven approach. I am aware of this report which included the suggestion of a college of music in the region to which I referred. It is one of the reasons I am anxious to fill this gap if I am successful. That is all one can do. A difficulty that I, as Minister, face constantly is whether I should try to do only that which I am certain to achieving and thereby avoid criticism or should I try to make all the provisions and fail in some areas? I have no hesitation in following the second path.
The Minister should launch out into the deep.
The Minister has touched on a number of key problems that relate to the use of school buildings. In my constituency a number of school buildings are well used for cultural, educational and community purposes. Of course, the difficulty is that they are made available through the good will of the school management. That matter needs to be addressed. When the Minister is discussing the question of the arts in schools and calling for the development of a cultural aspect to our curriculum will he discuss also with the Minister for Education the question of adequate insurance for after school hours use of buildings and the question of after school hours heating, lighting and maintenance of these schools. Most schools, particularly primary schools in disadvantaged areas, cannot maintain schools even during school hours.
Many consultations will be necessary to achieve this but I am certainly of one mind with the Deputy. Buildings such as these which are built from the public purse should be used to maximum benefit to achieve the maximum community impact. I feel for those people who became involved in the endless driving of children to and from schools for various activities. It is ridiculous if people who have motivated themselves to do something good for the community, managed to get access to the key of a building are then required to find out how to use the heating system, or how to turn on the lights or change a bulb and so on. I will bear the Deputy's views, which I share, in mind during the consultations I propose to have.
