Other Questions

Question No. 6 replied to with Written Answers.

Local Authority Housing Provision

Barry Cowen

Question:

7. Deputy Barry Cowen asked the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government the procedures and processes his Department has put in place to track the progress being made by each local authority on the social housing projects currently under construction; if he receives detailed monthly progress reports on each of the projects; and the measures his Department has at its disposal if it is of the view that a local authority is not making fast enough progress on delivering a social housing project. [25037/17]

Deputy Pat Casey

I ask the Minister the procedures and processes his Department has put in place to track the progress being made by each local authority on the social housing projects currently under construction; if he receives detailed monthly progress reports on each of the projects; and the measures his Department has at its disposal if it is of the view that a local authority is not making fast enough progress on delivering social housing projects.

Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government

My Department engages on a continuous basis with local authorities in regard to the advancement of all social housing construction projects. That is done at both a Departmental and Ministerial level. Deputy Casey has attended meetings at which we tried to engage with officials and local authority members to impress upon them the urgency of moving these projects toward completion and spending the money that has been allocated to social housing projects. That work is ongoing. I appreciate the Deputy's assistance in that regard.

The Department meets with each local authority on a quarterly basis, with a focus on accelerating projects, addressing issues that might give rise to delays and ensuring projects are delivered in a high-quality and value-for-money manner as speedily as possible. There are now over 600 social housing construction projects, which will deliver over 10,000 social housing units, listed in the status report on social housing construction projects. Not everyone agrees with those figures but they are facts and can be checked. I have dealt with Deputy Ó Broin's facts before and they are not always correct.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

I will be addressing that issue.

Deputy Damien English

The most recent version of the status report on social housing construction projects was published last week. The report, which represents the construction pipeline picture at the end of quarter 1 of 2017, sets out the position on each individual project, which is possible because of the project-by-project tracking that the Department does with the local authorities. The publication of the quarterly status report is a valuable part of the oversight for these projects as it allows Members, councillors, stakeholders and the public to view the status of projects in their areas and to track their progress over time. The pipeline of projects increased by some 1,600 units in quarter 1 of 2017 alone.

In addition to the systematic arrangements for engagement between the Department and local authorities, as I have said, the Minister and I have regular engagements with local authorities regarding their social housing programmes. These interactions, at both ministerial and departmental levels, will continue in the months and years ahead. It is important that is done because we are trying to strengthen the relationship between the Department and local authorities at staff and political levels. We have engaged with all parties on this issue. To strengthen that relationship is the right way deal with this issue. Social housing provision targets will only be achieved with the co-operation of local authorities and the approved housing bodies. Local authorities are central to this issue and have a significant role to play. We will continue to support their part in the process.

Social housing figures are published in order that Deputy Ó Broin and others can track the figures and understand the facts. Figures published are based on evidence and are not made up.

Deputy Pat Casey

I thank the Minister for his response. I am aware of the quarterly reports. One battle in regard to them was that they be published in an open source format in which the figures could be analysed and the details examined. All Members must be realistic and honestly admit that a blame game is still taking place between the Department and local authorities. That has gone on for more than a year, even after the Minister, with the best of intentions, reduced the eight-stage process to four stages. Full transparency is the only solution. An application from a local authority should be dated when it arrives at the Department and then dated on each occasion it moves from one stage to the next. It would be better if the four stage process could be time-bound. That could cause problems but it would at least be possible to identify where the problem is.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

The Department and the Minister have a difficulty with numbers. The Minister does not now how many people will sleep in emergency accommodation tonight nor how many new builds are under construction. There are not 10,000 social housing units in the pipeline. I have examined the figures very carefully. In my constituency, a third of the units listed do not exist, are not in pre-planning and are never going to happen. The Department and the housing managers know that to be the case. If, as I suspect, the status of a third of units in my constituency is replicated across the entire 10,000 units, that they are in the pipeline means that a civil servant put them on a piece of paper and nothing more than that. The Department needs to become more honest in regard to the figures it publishes.

In regard to the substantive query, the real issue is that there should be a single stage process. The Department is delaying the construction of social housing from 18 to 24 months. The Government was able to rush through emergency legislation to assist big developers of private housing developments of 100 units or more. It must reform the four stage process, make it one stage and take the leash off the local authorities so they can build the houses that people need.

Deputy Damien English

I accept that the blame game went on for many years. It is not currently being played. In some local authorities, there was a concern as to whether funding would be available if a local authority were to pursue strongly a social housing project it was asked to develop by the Department. All Members support what is being done in regard to social housing, at a minimum, and are committed that the €5.3 billion that has been allocated to it be spent.

Some Members want to spend even more and I accept that as well. I have given assurances to local authority members and managers that they can get on with this. What happened under previous Governments, when funding was stopped after local authorities were told to progress sites, is not going to happen. That is very clear. I am doing that on behalf of the Dáil. This is not the Government trying to claim credit here. Everybody in this House supports the spend on social housing and wants it to continue. It is something that we are pushing because it was delaying projects, and even delaying to the commitment to pipeline projects. The fear was that it could be cut off again. That is not happening.

Deputy Pat Casey

It would be great if we could get to a one-stage process. That is probably unrealistic, but equally we have to admit that there is duplication of the decision making process. I have not studied the latest report, which was issued last week, because it is not yet available in Excel format. We are still looking at it in PDF format. There were 508 projects going through the Departments. Some 32 of those were for single units that are forced to go through a four-stage process. The bureaucracy in that regard makes no sense at all. Some 49% of the total projects were for fewer than ten units. The whole programme of delivering social housing is quite small and it is not challenging. A project with 100 units has to go through the very same process as that relating to one unit. This matter must be examined.

Deputy Mick Wallace

If I send the Minister of State the breakdown of Mel Reynolds' analysis, will he reply to it and counteract what Mr. Reynolds says in order to justify his own numbers?

Deputy Damien English

I did not get to answer the second half of the earlier question. A single-stage process already exists. The local authorities chose not to use it. That process allows for a certain number of houses and it was agreed in the programme for Government to increase that. It is not being used. Only one application has come forward on that.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

That is for small projects and tiny buildings. That is just disingenuous.

Deputy Damien English

It is not disingenuous. Deputy Casey referred to projects of ten units and 20 units. There is a single-stage process available for those projects. I have encouraged local authorities to use it. Many choose not to use it. I have asked our Department and the local authorities to consider the way that the same method is being used to deliver schools under the devolved grant scheme. That worked quite well and everybody got on board with it eventually. It was started by Noel Dempsey, and I totally accept that. People should not be afraid of the risk associated with the single stage process. All of us working for the delivery of housing know that there is a need to change the processes. That is what we are trying to do. That is why the interaction of our staff and the staff of the local authorities has increased dramatically and why on-site meetings are happening much more often. The availability is there. We have to eliminate the delays and the blame game associated with them. That should not be there any more, because there is no excuse for delay. In defence of both sides, there were not sufficient staff two or three years ago to deal with this. An extra 500 staff have been sanctioned to work on housing projects in the past year and that will help to make it faster as well.

On Deputy Wallace's question, we have no problem with an analysis of our 10,000 pipeline projects. I will get that done. They are available online and can be analysed. We are not saying that they are all under construction. They are all at different stages of the pipeline.

Social and Affordable Housing Provision

Catherine Connolly

Question:

8. Deputy Catherine Connolly asked the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government the number of social housing units that will be completed in Galway city in 2017 and in each of the next five years; the locations in which this construction will take place; the expected number of social housing units coming into the ownership of the city council in 2017 and in each of the next five years under the Urban Regeneration and Housing Acts; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24802/17]

Deputy Catherine Connolly

I checked with someone on the social housing waiting list in Galway before I came to the Chamber. That person went on the waiting list in 2002. That is more than 15 years ago. During that period, the person in question has never once been offered a home by either the local authority or an approved housing body. My question is very specific: in light of that extraordinary list, what direct builds will proceed on Galway City Council land this year and in each of the next five years?

Deputy Damien English

The question I was asked is different to the one I am being asked now. I will give the answer I have and try to address the other matter raised as well.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

I am asking specifically how many will be built.

Deputy Damien English

I thought that the question related to Part V. I will answer and then I will give the information that I have.

My Department recently published an updated status report on social housing construction projects, containing details of all approved social housing construction projects, including in the Galway City Council area. It outlines locations and details for ten projects in Galway city, delivering 134 new social homes. The council has also recently submitted further social housing proposals, including construction projects by the council and the approved housing bodies, AHBs. These are being actively assessed and when approved will be added to the status report.

The exact timing for the advancement of each of these projects will be a matter for the council. However, I have been clear with the council that funding is available to support early delivery. I was in Galway recently to meet members of the council and I made it very clear that we want these projects to move much quicker and that we also want the number of projects to increase.

In addition to the projects listed in the status report, 73 new social homes are planned for Ballyburke. These were included in the second bundle of the social housing public private partnership programme. Also in addition to the projects listed in the status report are new social homes that have been acquired either through purchase or long-term lease directly by the council or in conjunction with AHBs from various sources, including NAMA and directly from property owners.

The development of new social homes under Part V arrangements will be dependent on the advancement of new construction projects in the private sector. While it is not possible to identify the precise numbers that will be delivered at this stage, I have assured all local authorities that funding will be made available to secure these units and my Department is in ongoing contact with the local authorities in this regard. I understand that Galway City Council anticipates an escalation to between 30 and 40 Part V units per annum from 2018 onwards depending on the level of construction of developments of ten or more units taking place.

Following my conversation with both local authorities in Galway, the lack of planning applications coming forward for both private and social housing is of major concern. They have now fully engaged with us on the Ireland 2040 process to see if we can increase the figures. We have also asked them to work with our Department to see if we can activate more sites in Galway. I am very concerned at the lack of construction activity in Galway. The councillors I met that day share the same concern. The Department is open to working with the councillors on that. We told them that the funding is there and that there will be no delay on our side.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

I am not clear. I welcome that the Minister of State is concerned and that he is saying that houses will be built. I am asking a very specific question, which I asked in the written form. How many city council houses will be completed this year and in each of the next five years? The most recent figure we got for the waiting list was 4,720 households going back to 2002. At a conservative estimate, this means that approximately 15,000 people are waiting for homes. Significantly, in the recent report the council has refused to give the data. I presume the position has worsened. In addition, there are 29 homeless families in Galway city who are being put up in bed and breakfast accommodation, hotels or other accommodation. It is really at breaking point. My question is very specific. How many houses will be built by the city council this year? I understood that it was 14. Will those 14 alone be completed or are there more? How many will be completed in the next five years?

Deputy Damien English

I am not being awkward with Deputy Connolly. I understood her question to specifically relate to Part V housing. She referred to the Urban Regeneration and Housing Acts. I apologise that I do not have the exact figures the Deputy has requested but I have answered the question she asked.

On other social housing, on the construction front Galway City Council currently have two local authority construction projects in the pipeline to deliver 69 units at a cost of some €16.3 million. There are two phases of one overall development at Ballymoneen Road and these are currently under construction. The other 55 units are at the design stage and will hopefully go on site at the end of this year or in early 2018. There are eight other AHB projects in the pipeline in Galway city. Two of these, involving 18 units, have now been completed. The remaining six, involving 47 units, are at various stages of development. On phase two of the Ballymoneen Road scheme which I referred to earlier there will be at least 55 units. A design team will soon be put in place to ensure that we get the maximum use of that site as well. There are other possibilities there as well.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

The question is very clear. I asked the Minister of Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government the number of social housing units that will be completed in 2017 and in each of the five years thereafter. I then go on to ask for further information. At this point, we are looking at 14 houses this year, with a bit of luck, in a city which has 15,000 people on a waiting list. The only game in town in Galway is the housing assistance payment, HAP, which is putting money into the hands of the landlords. This is notwithstanding the fact that Galway has been designated a rent pressure zone and that those payments are therefore limited. One cannot rent a house in Galway for love nor money. We have the most serious homelessness crisis. The figures from the Department are directly at odds with what the city council are reporting. There were 185 homeless individuals in March, and the figure from the council is 21 families.

The Department does not have a clear idea of how many are homeless or what land is zoned as residential. It cannot possibly plan for a crisis if it does not have the right figures.

Deputy Damien English

We are not trying to be awkward, as I am sure the Deputy understands. The end of her question read "under the Urban Regeneration and Housing Acts."

Deputy Catherine Connolly

That was additional.

Deputy Damien English

It did not appear to be additional in the question we had. We answered that question. I have no problem getting all the information the Deputy wants. The question we had, which we answered, was in respect of Part V. It is a demand-led scheme and we could not give exact figures for it. If it is of help to the Deputy, I can tell her what projects are due for delivery in 2017 with approved housing bodies. Túath has two projects: 12 units at Reilean at Roscam, and another six at Maoilin, Ballymoneen Road. Co-operative Housing Ireland, which I met recently, has delivered 23 units that are being tenanted at the moment. Clúid has acquired 39 units which are being tenanted at the moment as well. There are also two more with Clúid.

I am not happy with what Galway is bringing forward across the board in social housing. The Department is not happy and neither are the authorities in Galway. That is why we met them. We have asked them to increase activity across all the schemes, even when it comes to using vacant properties. There is a new scheme which we went through in detail with them. We have encouraged them to acquire more houses so they can get value for money as well. They have land. We have asked them to activate their sites. They brought forward one project under local infrastructure housing activation fund, LIHAF, funding. It did not pass the test as it was not going to deliver enough units. They have other options and we have told them that the Department will engage with them fully to bring forward housing.

Water and Sewerage Schemes

Aindrias Moynihan

Question:

9. Deputy Aindrias Moynihan asked the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government his plans to increase group sewerage schemes to support householders. [24988/17]

Deputy Aindrias Moynihan

Right across the country, there are numerous smaller housing estates with proprietary treatment plants, often serving ten or 15 houses. In many cases, the treatment plant is not operating, which is causing pollution, blockages and difficulty for householders. They want to put it right but are struggling to do so. They cannot get access to the taking-in-charge initiative. Irish Water does not want them. Councils have no budgets for upgrading sewerage plants and the residents cannot afford to do the work. Can the scheme for the group sewerage grants be upgraded to accommodate these families?

Deputy Damien English

My Department’s new multi-annual rural water programme 2016 to 2018 was developed through a working group of key stakeholders involving local authorities, the water services transition office, Irish Water, the National Federation of Group Water Schemes, as well as my Department. The programme provides for the funding of demonstration group sewerage schemes through measure 4(d), where clustering of households on individual septic tanks is not a viable option, particularly from an environmental perspective.

Local authorities were invited in January 2016 to submit bids under the programme. The invitation envisaged no more than two demonstration group sewerage projects being brought forward under the measure in any one year of the three-year programme. The demonstrations will allow my Department, over the course of the programme, to determine the appropriate enduring funding levels and relationship with the current grant scheme.

As new demonstration group schemes have been identified for the duration of the programme, and as only two demonstration projects can be advanced in any given year, my Department does not propose to modify the programme at this point. My Department will give consideration to the scope of the measure under the programme from 2019 onwards having regard to the implementation of the existing multi-annual rural water programme 2016 to 2018. My Department will also be giving wider consideration to the report of the Joint Committee on the Future Funding of Domestic Water Services as it relates to the rural water programme.

This issue has been raised by many other colleagues, including Deputy Durkan, who is also in the Chamber. We are aware of the matter but there is no scheme in place with enough money to deal with all the applications. Deputy Aindrias Moynihan's own area of Cork would have applied for about five under that scheme. There were 83 in total. We are limited to two per year at this time.

Deputy Aindrias Moynihan

I thank the Minister of State. He is focusing on the fact that only two schemes are being carried out each year. The big issue is that they are aimed at plants that would be taken in charge. These developments are never intended to be taken in charge. They are to be stand-alone plants. A management company is often supposed to have been put in place although it might never have got off the ground. The fact that the plants would not be taken in charge is one of the reasons the residents are not able to access the existing grant scheme. The scheme needs to be modified. We are really only talking about small money. Less than €2 million a year is spent on the current scheme and often the maximum allocation is not spent. The scheme is due for renewal over the next year so it is an opportune time to consider modifying it. We have people who recognise that there is a problem and want to take action and do the right thing but cannot afford to.

Deputy Damien English

I would probably agree with the Deputy. The scheme is being reviewed and we should see if we can modify it. A number of Deputies have brought forward different projects and solutions. There is often a question mark over the costing rather than the funding of such projects. Different suggestions have much lower costs associated with them in terms of estimates and so on. That is something we are analysing as well. We will look at it. As it stands, we do not currently have the funding to bring forward any more projects. It is something for the review and I would be happy to consider different ways to make it happen.

Deputy Aindrias Moynihan

The current scheme is finishing up for 2018. Can the Minister of State give a commitment that over the coming months, when he is starting that review, he will take these into consideration? Will he report back on the timeline for the review?

Deputy Damien English

The commitment I can give is that we are already looking at the different mechanisms for doing that outside the formal review. The funding is locked in for the next year and a half. I have been doing ongoing work with officials looking at different solutions.

Animal Breeding Regulations

Clare Daly

Question:

10. Deputy Clare Daly asked the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government the position regarding the dog breeding establishment guideline review; if he is satisfied that a proactive approach is being taken with regard to protecting animals in dog breeding establishments; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24982/17]

Deputy Clare Daly

I do not understand why this question has not been grouped with Question No. 56 from my colleague, Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan. She has spearheaded this issue for a long time. The question is about the status of the dog breeding establishment guideline review. We tabled the question because the legislation that is currently in place is not effective. The enforcement of those regulations, poor and all as they are, is practically non-existent and there is a big concern that the review will not be completed as there are media reports to that effect. Many very good submissions have come in from the public. We want to know where regulation is at in this very important area.

Deputy Damien English

I thank the Deputy for her question. I am not sure why it was not grouped with Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan's question. I do not know if that is up to us or somebody else. I will check that. I have acknowledged Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan's work in this area on many occasions. I have had some debates with her here on it as well. I appreciate Deputy Daly mentioning that and recognise the work of Deputy MaureenO'Sullivan.

The Dog Breeding Establishment Act 2010 provides a robust regulatory framework for, inter alia, the licensing, monitoring and inspection of dog breeding establishments by local authorities and, where a serious and immediate threat exists to public health or animal health and welfare, for the closure of such establishments. More generally, the enforcement of welfare standards regarding all animals is a matter for the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine under the Animal Health and Welfare Act 2013. A joint inspection regime of dog breeding establishments, involving the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine and the local authority veterinary service, was inaugurated in 2015 for the purpose of inspection and follow-up action.

My Department is in the process of reviewing the current dog breeding establishment guidelines, in collaboration with the County and City Management Association's dogs working group. Following the production of a first draft revision of the guidelines, it was considered important to broaden the review of the guidelines to a more formal public consultation, both for quality assurance and to address the need for openness and inclusiveness. A wide-scale formal public consultative process commenced on 1 December 2016 and closed on 28 February 2017. My Department is currently reviewing the feedback and data received through the process. I expect the findings to be submitted to me in June 2017, which I will consider carefully and without delay.

I can commit that the review will be completed. I can guarantee that much from my end. It is a matter in which I have an interest, mainly because of Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan, who brought it to my attention. We will try to complete the review as quickly as we can in the Department. I understand that the overall process has gone on for over 18 months at this stage and would be happy to bring it to an end. I hope to do so in the months ahead.

Deputy Clare Daly

There will be some comfort taken from the fact that the review has not been shelved. That was a genuine concern. It is precisely because there is not a robust regulatory regime in existence that the review of the guidelines is imminently necessary. There are 73 registered puppy farms in Ireland with at least 30,000 dogs being produced every year. That is 410 dogs per misnamed puppy farm - these are not farms but industrial scale dog breeding establishments.

The comparative figure in Britain is approximately 78 per farm. This is a seriously profitable concern. Many illegal farms exist too. Welfare organisations have said that some farms have more than 500 breeding dogs. The DSPCA maintains that the number should be limited to ten or fewer.

We have been identified as Europe's puppy farm capital. This is certainly something we do not want. Last August, the BBC broadcast a documentary that exposed the puppy farm industry, especially in Cavan. It highlighted the lack of enforcement by Cavan County Council. It is important that the review be completed and our standards updated because they are certainly not fit for purpose at present.

Deputy Damien English

Again, I wish to confirm that the review will happen. I agree with Deputy Clare Daly for all the reasons she outlined. Often, there is confusion between the Departments with regard to which Department is in control. In the case of this review our Department is leading it. I can certainly commit to it as part of my work in the coming months as well.

The report is not on my desk yet. It will be there soon. I have no problem in that sense. We can discuss it in this House at that stage if needs be.

The idea behind public consultation is to broaden the conversation around this area. There is considerable interest in this among the public. Several Departments are represented on the working group. It is vital that we have a public consultation aspect to it as well. It delayed the process a little, but that was no harm. The public need to be aware of these matters and they need to be part of the conversation. I hope we will not have any more delays. When the report comes on my desk, I will have no problem discussing it further with a view to making the necessary changes.

Deputy Clare Daly

The Minister of State has said this is a priority for him. I believe that and I am glad of it. Many good submissions were made by the public. It would be completely wrong if we were not to take them into account. The reason they were made is that the current system is not fit for purpose. In particular there needs to be a proactive approach in respect of issues such as the use of portable kennels, third-party sales, a ban on selling puppies under eight weeks of age, adequate licence fees, the black market and illegal selling of puppies.

The area of enforcement, or rather the lack of enforcement, is critical. A glaring inconsistency has been highlighted across different local authority areas. This has caused extensive problems in terms of the welfare of animals. Ireland's reputation has been already damaged because of the export of greyhounds to China. We are developing a disreputable international name and we need to correct that urgently. It is important not only that the guidelines are updated but that the enforcement mechanism is substantially beefed-up as well.

Deputy Damien English

I am glad to commit to that as well. I have not read all the submissions but I will do that as part of the process of the report coming to my desk. I always read submissions and I try to ensure we take them all on board inasmuch as we possibly can. There is no reason we cannot have a discussion in the House and at committee level as well to tease through that.

I agree with Deputy Daly. It does not get media coverage often but it is certainly an important area and it is damaging our reputation. It has probably become more of a priority. Given other issues in recent years it probably did not get the priority it needed. I am committing to it now. Given that the review is finished, there is no reason to delay acting in this area.

Homelessness Strategy

Eoin Ó Broin

Question:

11. Deputy Eoin Ó Broin asked the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government to outline the position regarding the way in which he plans to uphold his commitment to end the use of hotels and bed and breakfast accommodation as emergency accommodation for persons by July 2017; and a timeframe for same. [24806/17]

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

The first action of Pillar 1 on homelessness in rebuilding Ireland commits to ensuring that by mid-2017 hotels will be used only in limited circumstances for emergency accommodation for families. Pillar 1 commits to meeting housing needs through the housing assistance payment, housing allocations, a rapid build programme and acquisitions. Nowhere in the document does it state those responsible will deal with this problem by moving people into other emergency accommodation or hubs. Will the Minister of State give us an update on whether the Government will meet that specific commitment by the end of June?

Deputy Damien English

Rebuilding Ireland - Action Plan on Housing and Homelessness includes the objective that, by mid-2017, hotels will be used only in limited circumstances as emergency accommodation for families.

It is intended that the long-term housing needs of those currently homeless, including those families currently accommodated in hotels, will be met through housing supports, such as the enhanced housing assistance payment scheme and general social housing allocations. Significant outputs are being achieved in this regard. Housing authorities achieved more than 3,000 sustainable exits from homeless accommodation into independent tenancies during 2016, which was a record level of activity in a calendar year.

Housing authorities are also pursuing a range of supported temporary accommodation initiatives to provide accommodation for homeless families with a greater level of stability than is possible in hotels, while move-on options to long-term independent living are identified and secured. Furthermore, such arrangements will facilitate more co-ordinated needs assessment and support, including on-site access to required services, such as welfare, health, housing services and appropriate family supports.

We are confident that the mid-2017 objective relating to hotels, as set out in Rebuilding Ireland, will be met. At this stage we are having weekly meetings to ensure we meet that objective. This goes back to ensuring that all those involved in making this happen are fully equipped to do this and to make the resources available. We have asked them about it across a range of measures to ensure we reach this target.

I agree with Deputy Ó Broin. We will be judged on the progress of Rebuilding Ireland - Action Plan on Housing and Homelessness in the context of that figure. We cannot over-emphasise that point to everyone. Deputy Ó Broin will stress the point to us and he will hold us to account in that regard. The Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government, Deputy Coveney, set that ambitious target on purpose to ensure we get there.

Would we have preferred to see more movement earlier in the process? Certainly, we would. However, let us consider the trends now in recent weeks and months. We will get there. We are on track to do it. There has been a high level of presentations in recently months. The level is probably higher than any of us would have believed possible or would have wanted to see. The levels are very high and that is affecting movement here. However, we are still confident we can reach our target by mid-2017.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

The Minister of State left out three sentences from the commitment in the answer. The document does not simply state that the Government will end the use of hotels by mid-2017. It lists the four types of housing the Government will provide to meet that objective. Nowhere among those four types of housing is there mention of moving people into other emergency accommodation.

When I raised this with senior departmental officials last year, they told us the intention was to move these families into long-term housing. Approximately 875 families are currently in hotels and bed and breakfast accommodation. I understand the Minister of State has tables of data he might be able to share with us. Of those 875 families, how many will move into one of the four housing types in the Rebuilding Ireland commitment by the end of June? How many will move into other emergency accommodation that is not in the Rebuilding Ireland commitment? Crucially, how many will remain in the hotels in which they are currently, even if the hotel is to be refurbished, given additional supports, and called a family hub? We are not simply going to hold the Government to account on half of the commitment the Government has made. We want to know about the full commitment in Rebuilding Ireland.

Deputy Damien English

I will give the figures as they may be helpful to Deputy Ó Broin. Since he believes I have tables before me, I will give him what I have. The figures for the end of March, referenced by Deputy Ó Broin, show 870 homeless families were housed in commercial hotels and bed and breakfast accommodation in the Dublin region. The corresponding figure for April fell to 695. Again, that is a trend in the right direction although we would have hoped for more.

I do not have the breakdown of where individuals have gone. I can get that for the Deputy at some stage. Deputy Ó Broin is right. It is the intention of the Department that people will leave hotels for permanent accommodation. That is our desire and that is what we want to do. In some cases it will be necessary for a two-step approach involving more family-friendly accommodation on the journey to a permanent house. We are still committed to this target and to get them into a permanent home over the remaining time. That is what we are trying to do. In some cases, they might end up in some of the new family hubs. I have been to visit them. I am unsure whether Deputy Ó Broin has visited them. Some of them are impressive in terms of the range of services they can provide. They are still not ideal. They are not full permanent homes. The people in hotels would like to move into permanent houses.

We are using the HAP scheme as well. Houses have been acquired. We are using the repair and lease-back initiative. All the various schemes are being used for homeless people. We expect 68 new rapid-build construction houses to come on-stream in the weeks ahead. They will be used. Houses have been acquired through the Housing Agency. It is being done through a combination of measures. It is not a case of everyone being moved into the new family hubs. In some cases, some of the old commercial hotels have been reclassified. We are taking over them, re-developing them and changing the services they offer.

Our commitment is that people will not be in a commercial hotel because that is not a place to live. We want to achieve that, even if some end up in some of the new family hubs. If Deputy Ó Broin visits them he will see that what they can offer is far better than a commercial hotel. The measure is only short-term in nature and they will end up with a house.

The figures for April are down to 695. I will get the breakdown for more recent months. We expect the figures for May, June and July will show further reductions.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

Any improvement in emergency accommodation for families will be welcomed. Again, I go back to the commitment in Rebuilding Ireland that by the middle of this year families that are in hotel and bed and breakfast accommodation will be moved into HAP housing, rapid-build and procured units. We will want to know, sooner rather than later, how many of those 800 or 900 families have gone into the four categories of permanent housing in the Rebuilding Ireland commitment as well as how many are still in emergency accommodation. We must not forget that many of the families the Minister of State claims will be moving into better quality emergency accommodation have been already in emergency accommodation for up to two years. I am not against better quality emergency accommodation. I want the Minister to keep the specific commitment he made last year, namely, not simply to get families out of hotels, but to get them into the four different categories of permanent long-term housing.

It is clear from everything that the Minister of State has said that there will be a number of people - I think it will be a majority - who will continue to be in emergency accommodation, albeit of better quality, from July onwards.

Deputy Damien English

It is fair to say that the Minister gave that commitment in good faith and he wants to achieve it. The number one priority for us as Ministers and the Department is that people would be out of commercial hotels because they are not places to raise a family or to try to survive. Some people are there for 18 months to a year, which is not on. The aim is to get them into permanent accommodation. The Deputy was right to say that some will still end up in further temporary accommodation. While a hell of a lot better than a hotel, it is not the full answer for them. We are working with families so that they can transition into their full house.

I will give the Deputy some of the figures. Last year under the homeless HAP scheme, which has been a major addition to help us house people from homelessness, we targeted approximately 550 tenancies. We have reached more than 800 in 2016. These are people who were homeless and got into a house. This year alone there have been more than 600 new presentations that are now in a house under the HAP scheme. These are people who would be in hotels but who are being accommodated in homes. With new presentations and those in hotels, we will achieve these targets. However, I wish to stress that it has been very difficult because of the number of new presentations. While I am at it and given the Deputy was looking for them, I may as well give him the homelessness figures for April. The number of homeless adults is 4,972. The number of homeless families is 1,302. The number of dependants is 2,708. In Dublin only, there are 3,337 homeless adults, with the number of homeless families being 1,091. Again, those figures are slightly up. While we are making inroads in terms of our target of removing people from hotels, the overall number of presentations remain high. That is for a combination of reasons. We can look behind that story some day and see that.

In the weeks and months ahead, there will be more than 550 new family places available. These will help those who will present as homeless in the future. They will no longer be going into hotels. They will either enter a HAP situation or move into one of the family hubs and move on from there. It is important to deal with the hotels today, as well as the number of presentations. We are making great progress in that regard. I wish we could get ahead of it though.

Pyrite Remediation Programme

Clare Daly

Question:

12. Deputy Clare Daly asked the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government if he will request the pyrite board to initiate a review of the pyrite remediation scheme with particular reference to an assessment of the way in which the certification process can be made more efficient in order that properties which have pyrite but low levels of damage can be promptly issued with a green certificate. [24987/17]

Deputy Clare Daly

I again ask the Minister where we are in terms of an urgent review of the pyrite remediation scheme. As he well knows, currently it is not fit for purpose. It is particularly not fit for purpose for those stuck in the middle, that is, whose properties are damaged but not damaged enough to be remediated. They cannot get a green certificate showing that they are pyrite-free because of the mechanism involved. Therefore, they cannot sell, renovate or move on with their lives. This is long overdue and needs to be addressed.

Deputy Damien English

Deputy Clare Daly, along with many others, has been doing pioneering work on the area of pyrite. We are trying to address the issue as much as we possibly can. New presentations of those with pyrite - not of homelessness - is approximately ten a week. There is a fair lot still coming on stream. Therefore, I wish to stress that the scheme will not close.

The pyrite resolution board, with the support of the Housing Agency, is responsible for the implementation of the pyrite remediation scheme. The scheme is one of last resort and is limited in its application and scope.

The scheme is applicable to dwellings which are subject to significant damage attributable to pyritic heave established in accordance with - Deputy Clare Daly probably knows the reference off by heart at this stage - I.S. 398-1:2013 - Reactive pyrite in sub-floor hardcore material – Part 1: Testing and categorisation protocol. In this regard, it is a condition of eligibility under the scheme that an application to the board must be accompanied by a building condition assessment with a damage condition rating of 2. This ensures that, having regard to available resources, the focus of the scheme is on dwellings which are most severely damaged by pyritic heave. We have no proposals to amend the eligibility criteria for the scheme.

At the end of the remediation works, each dwelling is provided with a certificate of remediation for reactive pyrite in sub-floor hardcore material, which is completed jointly by the relevant builder and design professional in accordance with Annex B to I.S. 398-2:2013. The certificate confirms that the dwelling has been remediated to the requirements set out in the national standard.

A green certificate is issued in respect of dwellings that have been assessed, at the request of the homeowner, in accordance with the standard and considered to be free from pyrite. This issuing of such certificates is a matter entirely for the homeowners and the professional they engage. It is not part of the pyrite remediation scheme. Where a house has been remediated under the scheme, a certificate of remediation is provided and the issue of a green certificate does not arise.

I know the issue relates to the new standard to be brought forward. I had hoped we would have had it months ago. When the standard will be agreed is outside the control of my Department. Most people believe a change in it might help people to progress into category 2 quicker in order that they can be dealt with or that they would qualify for a green certificate. I hope the new standard will bring some changes and some certainty. I do not have them yet. I have asked that they would be fast-tracked as quickly as they possibly can. I have been told by the NSAI that we are talking about another couple of months or before the end of the year. I have said that this is not acceptable and have asked it to fast-track this as quickly as it can. I cannot progress solutions for people under the scheme until the new standards are developed.

Deputy Clare Daly

The problem is not the new standard. The changes in it, although we have not seen it, will alter the situation a little for some people. However, it will not correct the fundamental flaws with the scheme. I know that the Minister of State knows that there are hundreds of people in his constituency who are suffering because of this issue. Having raised the issue at every Question Time involving the Minister, I went to the trouble of drafting legislation to replace the present scheme with one that is based on remediation or certification. The idea is that the scheme, if a house could not be remediated or did not require remediation, would offer a certificate so that the owner could move on with his or her life. I was prevented from even giving that Bill a reading on the grounds that it would involve a cost on the Exchequer even though we had carried out a huge amount of work on it. In other words, the only people who can change the scheme are those in government. Backbenchers will be prevented from proposing legislation on this issue. This is urgent. The flaw in the scheme is that it was based on damage rather than the presence of pyrite. This means that someone whose house has pyrite and is therefore valueless but is not deemed to have enough damage to be remediated is left in total limbo. It is simply unacceptable. These are the victims of the housing bubble that led in essence to the housing crisis. It cannot go on.

Deputy Damien English

I agree with Deputy Clare Daly about being left in limbo. We are trying to find solutions to it. I might sit down and look over her Bill with her, if that is okay, to see where we can use it. The problem at the moment is that under some of the standards, the house is still reported to have a pyrite presence. However, it might not be possible to see physical damage to the house. I have been in houses that have been said to have pyrite although one cannot see anything wrong with them even ten to 12 years after construction. No one will buy those houses and the banks will not give a mortgage to buy such houses. However, it would probably be wrong to spend €60,000 fixing the house to remove the presence of pyrite. It is not an easy circle to square or - the other way round - a square to circle.

I accept that people are left in limbo and we have to find solutions. I have met people and families who want to move one with their lives. Their jobs or lives might have moved onto a different part of the country but they are stuck in the house they have today. I would be happy to try to find solutions but it will not be possible to get the backing of any Department of Finance or Department of Public Expenditure to spend between €60,000 and €80,000 on a house that has no real physical evidence of damage although we know pyrite is present. That is the difficulty. Where a house must be remediated, the scheme is available. Many houses have been fixed at this stage already. More than 700 have already been completed and there is another 400 to 500 in the system, with more than 1,300 applications in total. We are dealing with houses that need to be fixed.

I understand what the Deputy is saying. She is speaking about those who are left in limbo. The solution, however, is not straightforward. I am happy to look at the Deputy's Bill to see if she has a better solution than that which we can find.

Deputy Clare Daly

If a house does not need to be fixed, it would be utterly ridiculous to fix it. No one is proposing that. However, if a property has pyrite, there has to be a system where, it having been studied after another period of time and demonstrated that the damage has not progressed, one could say the level of pyrite has already oxidised and will not develop further or is of such a low level as to be insignificant, meaning that a house could be declared, in essence, pyrite-free. Without the certificate, the only other remedy would be an actual remediation of the property. Those are the only two options. The problem is that we have a remediation scheme that is too restrictive. A house has to be virtually falling down before a person can get onto the scheme. However, on the comfort on the other end if one does not qualify, one cannot get out of jail either. This needs to be built into the scheme. Interestingly, one of the objections raised when I moved the Bill was that there is no definition of a green certificate.

They could not tell me how it is defined even though it is a term used broadly in the industry and we all know what it should be. I will sit down with the Minister of State. I hope he is still here to do that. I do not mean it in a derogatory way but it is very unfortunate that a lot of these key issues will be subsumed by the internal battles in Fine Gael. I hope we can sit down and address it.

Deputy Damien English

I assure the Deputy the internal battles or journey of Fine Gael will not delay anything in our programmes or anything in this matter. It is not as simple as issuing the green certificate. I know what it means. It means one can sell on one's house and people will feel confident to buy it and can get a mortgage on it. I have been in houses that were built 30 or more years ago and pyrite is only now becoming a problem. If there is a presence of pyrite, it is not as simple as being able to tell somebody they can get out of jail or, in other words, that their house is cleared. That is why the standards are being looked at again to see if the testing procedures are right and to see if there is some way to say legitimately that the pyrite will never cause a problem. If one sees a house 30 years on and then a problem is caused by pyrite, it would be very hard for the State to issue a green certificate at a stage when pyrite is present. I would like to find a solution so people are free of it and can move on from it. There are other ways to do it that I am looking at and that I can discuss with the Deputy when we look over her Bill to see if there is some way of doing it with her Bill. I would like to find a solution to this because it affects people I represent and I have seen at first hand the damage it can cause to a family, both financially and socially.

Question No. 13 replied to with Written Answers.

Wastewater Treatment

Eoin Ó Broin

Question:

14. Deputy Eoin Ó Broin asked the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government the position regarding the EU Commission's legal proceedings against the Government for the breach of the urban wastewater treatment directive. [24807/17]

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

In February, the European Commission initiated court proceedings against the Irish Government for breaches of the urban wastewater treatment directive. Infringement proceedings have been ongoing since 2012. I am looking for an update from the Minister of State on the progress on the 38 agglomerations or urban areas that are currently in breach of EU law and what the Government will do to rectify these. How much will be invested year on year from now until 2021 to bring these 38 agglomerations up to standard?

Deputy Damien English

The urban wastewater treatment directive mandates the required standards for the collection and treatment of wastewater from urban areas of greater than 2,000 population equivalent. The directive dates from 1991, with the last implementation deadline in the directive being 31 December 2005. By this date, collection systems should have been in place and secondary treatment of wastewater should have been provided for all agglomerations with a population equivalent of over 2,000 people, where the treated wastewater is discharged to rivers, lakes or estuaries. As such, the issue of compliance with the requirements of the urban wastewater treatment directive in Ireland is a long-standing problem.

The European Commission commenced an infringement process against Ireland regarding its implementation of the directive in September 2013. This was followed by a supplementary letter of formal notice in September 2015. A reasoned opinion was then sent by the European Commission in September 2016, with the case being referred to the Court of Justice of the European Union in February 2017. The supplementary letter of formal notice of September 2015 identified compliance concerns regarding a total of 82 agglomerations. However, communications with the European Commission as part of the infringement process have satisfied the Commission that 44 of those 82 agglomerations should be removed from the case. While this indicates the progress being made, 38 agglomerations remain of concern to the European Commission. Irish Water will continue to prioritise key projects in their capital investment plans to address the issues of non-compliance in the outstanding areas.

To address all these concerns, in the various plans, would cost roughly €1.7 billion.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

Interestingly, the primary reason the European Commission initiated the infringement proceedings was because when Fine Gael took office in 2011, it slashed the capital budget for wastewater treatment plans. Prior to that, particularly when John Gormley was Minister, the investment was between €200 million and €300 million on an annual basis. When Fine Gael took office with Labour, it was slashed to figures such as €150 million and €124 million. Clearly, the reason we are now facing potentially millions of euro of fines is because Fine Gael slashed the funding for those projects. What I am looking to know and what was not in the answer the first time around is, year on year from here onwards, exactly how much is being spent on tackling the 38 agglomerations in breach of EU law?

The Environmental Protection Agency has identified 127 priority locations, including the 38, where they feel there could be future breaches of EU law. What is the plan? Specifically what is the level of capital investment in those, year on year from now to 2021?

Deputy Damien English

I mis-stated the figure. I said €1.7 billion but that was the total spend. From 2014 to 2024, about €1.1 billion will be required to ensure the compliance for the 38 agglomerations. That is the rough spend. Of the €1.7 billion, Irish Water plans to spend from 2017 to 2021, approximately €623 million is planned for investment in the cited areas. The planned investment builds on an investment of €179 million for the period 2014 to 2016 to develop urban areas. A projected requirement of €286 million for the period beyond 2021 is required. It will bring us to a total spend of €1.1 billion. The €1.1 billion is an increase of €100 million on the previous estimate of what it would cost to fix these.

The Deputy said the current Government and the last Government cut the funding in this area. I do not need to give the Deputy a lecture on economics. The money was not there to spend. That is why we set up the process of Irish Water to be able to put us in a position to spend greater amounts of capital on investment in water and sewage facilities. Trust me, if the money had been at our disposal in our first five years of Government, as in many other areas, we would have been happy to spend it. The money was not there and there is no point in trying to say a previous Government left money in the kitty because it had not. The kitties were bare when we got there.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

If John Gormley was able to sustain the level of funding in 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011, when the recession was at its deepest, there is simply no reason why Fine Gael, if it had chosen to continue that level of funding, could not have done so. My question has still not been answered. I want to know, year on year, from now to 2021, what the investment is. I knew the figure was €1.1 billion over that period because of a reply to a parliamentary question a number of weeks ago. Unless we front-load that expenditure starting from this year, next year and the year after, we will face potentially millions of euro in fines. Clearly the officials have not given the Minister of State the figures. It would be good to let me know, in writing, how much of that €1.1 billion is being put in, year on year, next year, the year after and the year after that. The reason the Commission has initiated court proceedings is because it is not satisfied at the progress to date on the 38 agglomerations. I am not only concerned about the 38 but the 127 identified by the EPA. I would be very grateful if the Minister of State could provide in writing at a later stage figures for what capital investment they will get from now to 2021.

Deputy Damien English

I am happy to do that. As with Deputy Connolly, the question the Deputy submitted is not the one he is asking me to answer now. I do not have the data with me. I have no problem getting the breakdown for the years. The total figure is €623 million. There is an additional €290 million needed beyond that now. The Deputy asked me the position on the legal proceedings. The question did not mention figures but I am happy to get them for the Deputy.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

The Minister of State is a smart man. I thought he might know off the top of his head.

Deputy Damien English

I know a lot of things but I would not like to put information on the record that might be slightly wrong. The Deputy likes accuracy of data and he likes quoting the figures when he gets them. I have no problem giving him the information.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Bernard J. Durkan)

The next question is in the name of Deputy Bríd Smith. We are tight for time.

Deputy Bríd Smith

I did not realise the Acting Chairman was going to take my question. I get squashed in at the end. Will the Minister of State have time to take the question?

Acting Chairman (Deputy Bernard J. Durkan)

Yes, but time is of the essence.

Housing Assistance Payment

Bríd Smith

Question:

15. Deputy Bríd Smith asked the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government his plans to deal with ongoing problems being experienced by persons trying to access accommodation or remain in existing accommodation under the housing assistance payment, HAP, scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24810/17]

Deputy Bríd Smith

I want to ask the Minister of State about the ongoing problems experienced by people trying to access accommodation under the HAP scheme. Will he make a statement on the matter?

Deputy Damien English

It is recognised the level of supply in some rental markets can make the sourcing of accommodation very challenging, as we saw this week. The pressures in this regard are borne out by the data published recently by daft.ie, showing that rent asking prices rose nationwide by an average 13.4% in the year to March 2017. The report also shows that rent inflation in Dublin has slowed over the last quarter. It is an early indication that the rent predictability measures introduced under the Government's strategy for the rental sector are having the desired effect.

The HAP is a flexible and immediate housing support that is now available to all eligible households throughout the State. The increased rent limits introduced by the Government in the last year, together with the additional discretion available to local authorities to exceed the maximum rent limit where necessary, are allowing HAP households to find suitable accommodation and willing landlords. On average in 2017, 325 additional tenancies are being supported by HAP each week, with 22,000 households currently having their housing needs met by HAP and some 17,000 separate landlords and agents are in receipt of monthly HAP payments. Particular additional targeted supports are available to homeless households in the Dublin and Cork regions to assist them in finding accommodation in the private rental market, with the support of HAP. A breakdown of the number of households supported by HAP in each local authority area at the end of March 2017 is available on our website. I am satisfied the HAP scheme is working well, despite the challenging rental market, but we will keep its operation under review.

I reiterate what I said in a discussion here last week with Deputy Broughan.

While I understand the housing assistance payment does not work for everybody, it provides solutions for many, including in the short term. From June onwards, we will rely heavily on the payment to avoid people having to use commercial hotels. The HAP scheme has achieved considerable success in Dublin where approximately 600 new HAP tenancies have been provided since Christmas. Last year, more than 800 HAP tenancies were provided directly for homeless people.

I accept Deputy Bríd Smith could cite specific cases and I cannot deny that the housing assistance payment does not work for everybody. However, it works in many cases and is generally better than the rent subsidy scheme that preceded it. For example, recipients of the payment can return to work and increase their income without being penalised.

Dáil Éireann debate - Thursday, 25 May 2017

Other Questions

Local Authority Housing Provision

Barry Cowen

Social and Affordable Housing Provision

Catherine Connolly

Water and Sewerage Schemes

Aindrias Moynihan

Animal Breeding Regulations

Clare Daly

Homelessness Strategy

Eoin Ó Broin

Pyrite Remediation Programme

Clare Daly

Wastewater Treatment

Eoin Ó Broin

Housing Assistance Payment

Bríd Smith

Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 25 May 2017