Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 15 May 2024

Vol. 1054 No. 2

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Water Services

Deputy James O'Connor

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Leas-Cheann Comhairle. I wish to speak about this issue because it is of huge importance to people across the east Cork region where the homes that are supplied with this affected water supply are being negatively impacted. Because of new policies that have been introduced, there is an additional burden on these householders, which is very unjustified, in the context of the introduction of the deposit return scheme for plastic bottles. Unfortunately, thousands of people in my area have been consistently affected by the quality of their water supply over a long number of years. Some people have been affected for seven or eight years and indeed even longer than that in some parts.

East Cork, as many people will know, is a low-lying landscape where there is a lot of limestone rock. Despite the high-quality water supply, when there are heavy deluges of rain, unfortunately, they contaminate the water supply due to the geology locally and other contributing factors. This is a very problematic issue for a huge number of residents. The epicentre of this is Whitegate and Aghada, but it spreads across to other parts such as Churchtown, Saleen, Shanagarry, Ballinacurra, Cloyne and all the rural hinterlands in those areas that are connected to that water supply.

Unfortunately, when it comes to what the State is doing to support those families, it is just not right. People have to go in and out of their local towns and villages to purchase water and now there is the additional cost of the deposit return scheme. It is not fair. The State needs to step in and Irish Water should be told by the Department of local government and the Ministers responsible that they must step in to do something in response to this inequity. It is very unfair on those affected. I am conscious a body of work is being done to address these issues but that is for the long term and it will take a number of years.

I am joined by Deputy Stanton, who also represents the area. Both of us can say that this issue is a huge headache for people locally. They have been suffering because of it for a very long time. I often feel the frustration of people locally who do not feel this issue is getting the attention it deserves. I wish to raise it this morning to show that it is a major concern for me politically and for the people I represent.

The Department needs to step in to give Irish Water a bit of a kick in the right direction because it is only fair that it acknowledges the impact this has for all the residents who have been affected and have been going through these boil water notices and the impact they have, for example, on washing children, getting ready for school and people trying to get their bits and pieces ready every morning. There is a whole heap of different areas as to how this has affected families and ordinary households.

In a video that has been brought to my attention, there are some stories in which there might be an additional requirement for water for medical grounds or other issues that are affecting elderly people. It seems a bit heartless that the water supply is not provided on a local level and people have to go to supermarkets to purchase this at extraordinary higher cost. If the additional household cost that this brings to homes on a weekly basis is totted up, it is not fair. In addition to that, there is the deposit return scheme and how that is impacting them. It is a pain in the posterior to many people across the country. I am not the greatest advocate for it; I will not lie. However, for those who are affected by the water supply issue in east Cork where there are these outages affecting homes, it needs to be looked at.

Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (Deputy Malcolm Noonan)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Leas-Cheann Comhairle agus leis an Teachta O'Connor as an gceist seo a ardú. I thank the Deputy for raising this issue and I acknowledge Deputy Stanton's concerns as well about the east Cork boil water notice.

The issue of safe drinking water has both national and local importance and I appreciate the Deputy's concerns for the communities affected. He will appreciate that the operation at Whitegate regional public water supply is a matter for Uisce Éireann, which has a statutory responsibility for all aspects of water services, that is, planning, delivery and operation at national, regional and local level. In turn, the Environmental Protection Agency as the environmental regulator, is responsible for setting water quality standards and enforcing compliance with EU directives and national regulations for the provision of drinking water.

I understand, from inquiries made with Uisce Éireann, that the boil water notice currently in place for the Whitegate public water supply was issued on 18 October 2023 following consultation between Uisce Éireann, Cork County Council and the Health Service Executive. This boil water notice, which remains in place, was issued to protect approximately 9,500 customers in Whitegate, Aghada, Churchtown, Ballycotton, Saleen, Shanagarry, Ballinacurra and areas of Cloyne. The notice was issued as a result of increased turbidity in the raw water, which can happen at this source as it is susceptible to raw water quality issues after rainfall events. Boil water notices have been issued on Whitegate public water supply a number of times in recent years. However, it should be noted that the water is safe to consume once boiled.

Uisce Éireann has advised in January this year, following a protracted process, that it received planning permission for a new state-of-the-art water treatment facility that will service just more than 10,000 people in the east Cork community of Whitegate and surrounding areas. The proposed new water treatment plant will address the frequent boil water notices that the people of east Cork have experienced in recent years. A contractor has been appointed to deliver the works on behalf of Uisce Éireann. Construction on this vital project is expected to begin in the second half of this year and will take approximately 22 months.

My Department does not have any function regarding the deposit return scheme to which the Deputy referred. However, consumers who have been charged a deposit on a container under the scheme can redeem it in full from participating shops and supermarkets. It is a good scheme, but obviously good quality municipal water is far superior to bottled water in most cases.

That is what we should be trying to achieve. There is also zero waste generated from drinking tap water.

Turning to financial support, Uisce Éireann has a strong consumer service focus through its water charges plan and customer charter, which outlines the standard of service customers should expect to receive. The water charges plan sets out the compensation mechanism when water quality is compromised and unfit for human consumption, such as when boil water and drinking water restriction notices apply.

Business consumers who pay charges are entitled to a rebate under the consumer handbook as agreed with the Commission for Regulation of Utilities. However, implementation of the water charges plan is a matter in the first instance for Uisce Éireann. Any issues that cannot be resolved by Uisce Éireann to the satisfaction of the customer can be referred under the formal complaints process to the CRU. My Department's priority is to ensure that people's health is protected and that adequate water is available for all consumers.

We all want to see this notice lifted without undue delay but only when the HSE and the EPA have confirmed that the water supply is safe.

Deputy James O'Connor

I thank the Minister of State for that information. It is little comfort to the people we represent. Part of the response to has to be financial assistance that needs to be provided to the families involved. If the State has an agency in place to supply home owners and people who live in these homes affected, with a safe and secure water supply for every type of domestic use, there should be some reflection on that so that in an area such as east Cork, where so many people have been affected over such a long time, they need to be given some kind of compensation to allow them to get on with their lives without having to bear that additional cost. I outlined how where people are buying vast amounts of bottled water, that can impact on their personal finances. Not everybody has the luxury being able to set aside €40 or €50 per week, or in some cases a great deal more, to buy in that water supply. That is not good enough. These householders are paying through the nose for something that is not really any fault of their own. It is the fault of the State in the sense that it cannot provide them with the water supply they need.

Within the Civil Service such matters would be viewed as, "You raise me a solution and I will raise ten problems", but that needs to be taken on board. It is only right and proper that these householders are given that reflection from the Department so that when they go to Uisce Éireann saying too many people are affected over too long a period, is it not time that we probably do something with these families? That would be my view and my request.

I ask the Minister of State to reflect on that, to bring that back to the Department and consider putting in place a system or a scheme that can financially support those individuals affected by it. I reiterate that for eight years a vast number of householders have been affected. East Cork has gone through a difficult time with Storm Babet and the impact it had on the local area. This issue has been dragging on for an unholy amount of time. It is not fair. Irish Water has given priority to projects in other parts of the country for a multitude of reasons. However, this has been going on for an unacceptable amount of time. I ask that the compensation angle be looked at.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

I thank the Deputy. As I outlined, there is a compensation mechanism for business customers. Certainly, I appreciate the points raised about the communities in east Cork affected by this because it is a huge inconvenience, to put it mildly, when a boil water notice is in place, even if it is just around issues of turbidity in the water supply. It still requires customers to boil the water before consumption. I am not sure whether Uisce Éireann has arranged the supply of potable water through tankers in any of the communities affected. That might be worth considering in the interim while the capital project is under way. As I said it is a 22-month period to deliver that project. That will ultimately deal with the issue once and for all.

The deposit refund scheme is a good scheme. The mechanism is there for people to get a full refund on the purchase of bottles but ultimately having good potable water is better. In many cases, the water quality of municipal supplies is far better than much bottled water that people are buying off the shelves and there is no waste attached to drinking tap water. However, the tap water needs to be of good quality and that is a fundamental right that should be afforded to every citizen in the State.

I certainly will bring back the Deputy's concerns to our Department and to Uisce Éireann.

Work Permits

Deputy David Stanton

I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle for selecting this issue and the Minister for being here to respond. I have been raising this issue for quite some time in committee, in the Chamber and with colleagues. It has to do with Irish companies and foreign direct investment, FDI, companies located here that require staff to come from abroad to work here for a limited period. They bring leadership and expertise and so on that is not available here. However, quite often, staff have a partner or spouse who can actually accompany that person while working here, for that period. The challenge is that a partner or spouse has no automatic right to work here. They can apply for a work permit but that can be challenging. It has been brought to my attention by some companies that in some instances people have refused to come here or have cut short the time spent here. That is a loss to us as a nation.

We are also an outlier. Most of our competitor countries allow the spouses or partners of intracompany transfer permit holders to work as an automatic right. They have to apply for jobs when they get here, similar to anyone else, and compete and so on but it makes it easier. However, for the critical skills list, when somebody comes here, the spouse or partner can automatically work. I am asking is for a change to be made so that when we have an intracompany transfer permit granted to a person of high skill or high leadership ability who comes here for a short period and his or her spouse or partner comes as well, that the spouse or partner can work as an automatic right, in the same way as the partners of critical skills workers can work.

There is an organisation called Permits Foundation with which I have been working. It has written to the Departments of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and Justice on this issue. It maintains that, where a host country allows partners to work, 91% of employers said that their organisation’s ability to attract people with the desired qualifications and skills increased. The organisation also maintains that 80% of employers reported a rise in the host country's reputation as a fair, equal opportunity society and that the country's reputation for doing business also went up. Some 94% of global mobility professionals said that family members should be authorised to work in the host country directly on recognition of their dependant status. For most, the definition of family members should be broad, covering married and non-married partners and, for half the respondents, working-age children. That is another issue. Partners of international employees are themselves highly educated. Some 88% held a bachelor’s degree or higher, 53% of partners were not in employment in the host country and 84% of those unemployed wanted to be employed.

This has generated some international attention since I have raised it here. Yesterday I received an email from a person who said:

I am the head of recruitment of a leading --- business and wanted to reach out on the spousal right to work on inter company transfers. I noted that you have raised this in the Oireachtas in the past. A number of our senior leaders have spouses --- who cannot work here. These are highly educated, experienced professionals, many of whom had great careers across different companies and countries before coming to Ireland. Here they cannot work freely.

This person was wondering whether there was any progress in this issue and went on to say:

I met a partner of a senior leader today and felt very sorry for them. This person wants to work as a freelancer and is unable, even though he is here a few years already. It really spoils the experience for the families.

The last time I raised this during oral questions to the Minister, she said she would have a look at it and she indicated that she herself was positively disposed to this and would do some work on it. I am really forward to her response this morning. I hope she will have a positive response and that changes will be made at Government policy level to enable this to happen quickly.

Minister for Justice (Deputy Helen McEntee)

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. He has been raising it for some time, for all the reasons that he outlined and the particular cases he just mentioned in respect of people working in the State already whose spouses or partners who want to work unfortunately cannot. Some spouses and partners want to be here and some of them are not with them here because they cannot work. As the Deputy said, I gave a commitment to respond and to engage with him because I believe we need to change this.

I am pleased to report to him and the House that following Cabinet approval yesterday, spouses and partners of general employment and intracorporate transfer permit holders will now be able to engage in employment. As the Deputy will be aware, previously, spouses or partners who were granted immigration permission as dependants of these employment permit holders, could only work if they acquired a separate work permit. Many of them left jobs and roles to join their families here and of course many wanted to continue their careers here in Ireland

Today, approximately 20% of our workforce was not born in Ireland. They play an absolutely vital role in our economy, businesses, healthcare sector and society. Last year alone, the State issued almost 13,000 general employment permits and almost 2,000 intracorporate transfer permits. It is estimated that approximately 54% of these permit holders bring a spouse or partner to Ireland, meaning that there may be several thousand spouses or partners of these permit holders in the State who are unable to legally contribute to their household income or directly to the economy. There are potentially people who wanted to come here to work, as I said, but have not come here because of the impact on their spouse or partner.

Fundamentally, I saw this, as did the Deputy, as a missed opportunity for Ireland. It risked making Ireland less attractive for workers and also limiting a person’s ability to contribute to the economy and provide for their family.

I am happy to inform him that the requirement to obtain a separate employment permit has been lifted from today and the website has been updated as of this morning. This means that spouses and partners of these work permit holders who are currently residing in the State on a stamp 3 immigration permission will be able to work immediately. Additionally, they will not be required to attend an immigration office to change their permission. Detailed information regarding these arrangements is available on my Department's website, which, as I said, was updated just this morning and sets out these changes for individuals and prospective employers. I hope that the people mentioned in the email that came to the Deputy will be able to know from today that they can themselves start to work if that is what they wish to do. Going forward, spouses and partners who are granted permission to join their family members in the State will be granted a stamp 1G immigration permission.

My Department has worked closely with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment to effect this change. It is a good example of proactive and positive engagement between two Departments. Both Departments are absolutely committed to ensuring that our economic migration arrangements are fair, efficient and responsive to the needs of society, the economy and businesses, whether they are Irish or those from abroad that have set up here.

In addition to the changes agreed for spouses and partners of employment permit holders, the Government also agreed to create a single permit to both work and live in Ireland. To the Deputy's point, we are currently competing with the likes of the UK, EU member states, the US, Canada and further abroad, where people can apply and get a single permit to work or live, whereas for here they have to come, go to the Department of enterprise, get their work permit and then come to the Department of Justice. We need to make it more streamlined because we are not as attractive as other countries for those who are seeking work.

I believe both of these measures will significantly enhance Ireland's ability to compete internationally to attract talent, address skills shortages in our economy and promote economic growth. It will also help in the most important way, which is to bring families together.

Deputy David Stanton

For once, I am at a loss for words. I am absolutely thrilled with this news. I thank and congratulate the Minister for listening to what I had to say, taking on board what I said and actually making the change happen. It is an example that shows that this House actually works. If Ministers like her listen to colleagues across the House with regard to suggestions such as this and then actually take action, we can make much more progress in many areas. This will make a huge difference to a small number of people.

A number of years ago what prompted me was a call I got from a lady who had been here with her husband. She was highly qualified but unable to work. He was an intracompany transfer. We tried at the time to make changes but it was not possible. I am delighted now to hear this news.

It will also have a positive impact on our global competitiveness. We will be able to compete equally with our competitor colleague countries, of which there are more than 30 that allow spouses and partners to work automatically when they arrive. To clarify, they are allowed to apply for work; they may not get a job. That will make it more attractive. It will also benefit people who come here who want to set up businesses from foreign direct investment and send a team here and bring their partner or spouse with them. It will make it more attractive for those highly-skilled, highly-qualified people to come here for the short period that the intracompany transfer permit allows in order to set up companies and businesses.

This is a positive and important move. The implications will be not only local and national but international. It will also make a difference on a personal level to the people who come here. If somebody comes here and both partners can work, their family income goes up, which makes it more attractive as well. It is a win-win-win for everybody.

I congratulate the Minister, her officials and the Ministers and officials in the Department of enterprise. When the Minister of State, Deputy Richmond, was previously in the Department of enterprise, he was strong on this and very supportive. I am not sure whether there will be any notice in media and so on because it is a good news story and an important one.

I say, “Well done, thank you and congratulations” to the Minister.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That was a very good recovery from the Deputy's loss of words.

Deputy David Stanton

Thank you. I am from Cork.

Deputy Helen McEntee

I again thank the Deputy for raising this. The most important thing here is that it makes sense. Sometimes we just have to apply common sense to a situation that clearly does not work. It might be a small number but there are thousands of people living here who want to work but cannot and there are people here whose spouses or partners have not come with them because of the fact they cannot work or cannot work easily. There are also people who will not come here because of this very situation. Therefore, changing this is not just positive for those families but it is positive for our economy as well.

When I was in New York for St. Patrick’s Day this year, I had a lot of different engagements but one thing that stood out when people talk about Ireland and what attracts them to Ireland is our wonderful workforce. What is really positive about our workforce is that 20% of people in our workforce were not born here. We have a multilingual, multiskilled and multitalented workforce. It is a benefit to our country and it is something that people from the outside looking in see as a benefit. To be able to make it easier for people who want to come here, bring their skills, bring their knowledge, but also bring their partners who also have that strong ability is an important change. It is an important signal to send. In addition, the changes we will make to bring forward a single permit to allow people to come and work here will make us a much more attractive destination.

I thank the Deputy for raising this. I look forward to seeing the benefit of it and those applying for jobs hopefully from today onwards.

Agriculture Industry

Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan

This week I visited Bandon mart and Skibbereen mart in my constituency. Meeting farmers, it is blatantly clear that they are fed up. They are mainly fed up of overregulation and they are fed up of red tape. They are tired of endless paperwork; new regulations being brought in on a weekly basis; the hoops they have to jump through to qualify for the different schemes; and the endless hours of filling forms to qualify for grants under the targeted agricultural modernisation scheme, TAMS, or environmental schemes. They are tired of the penalties they get if an “i” is not dotted or a “t” is not crossed and they are absolutely fed up of the changing goalposts we see happening month on month.

One farmer put it absolutely perfectly when he told me there is no joy in farming anymore. If there is no joy in farming, I do not understand how we are supposed to encourage or incentivise the next generation of farmer to come up and take on this incredibly important industry. This sector is the backbone of rural Ireland.

I ask that we please lose the paperwork before we lose the farmers. We have seen a mass exodus in the fishing sector, which is incredibly sad. We do not want to see this happening in the farming sector. I am hearing that it will happen because farmers are tired, they are tired of the paperwork and some are looking to get out. We need to stop that. I understand many of these regulations and directives are coming from the EU. However, we as a Government need to do our bit to ease those regulations and the burden on farmers.

I will give a few examples, especially of the goalposts changing. We all know about the VAT rebate and how certain items farmers were able to claim that rebate on are no longer applicable. That has been well covered. I will give an example of the dairy beef calf premium – the €20 per calf payment. I talked to a farmer who bought a stock bull in 2021. In 2022, there was no mention of this 3-star rating that a bull needed. In 2023, when the cow was bulled, again, there was no mention of the requirement for a 3-star rating on the bull. However, as soon as the calf was born, this requirement for a 3-star rating came in and that farmer therefore did not qualify for the premium It is a perfect example of the goalposts changing.

Then there is the suckler scheme. Apparently it was a requirement that a farmer would join Bord Bia to qualify for the suckler scheme. Reams of paperwork were filled out. However, it transpired a few weeks later that in fact there was not a requirement to join Bord Bia.

Again, that is a perfect example of the goal posts changing. It is clear to me from meeting farmers that it is simple. Just let them do what they are good at, and that is farming. They have been hit by derogation and the reduction in stocking rates. I alluded to the VAT issue earlier. We need to do our best to help farmers. They are dealing with inspection after inspection and reams of paperwork. We need to make it easier so that farmers can get on with doing what they are good at.

Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Deputy Martin Heydon)

I thank the Deputy for raising a very important topic. At any meeting with farmers the length and breadth of the country, they raise over-regulation, red tape, bureaucracy and all of the other work that takes them out of their fields and sheds and into their offices and kitchens, and all of the paperwork that goes with that. As a farmer, with my neighbours in Kildare, I know this is a source of frustration which we have to tackle nationally. There is a European element to it, obviously, but I am not going to just blame Europe either. We have a role we can play in the future in terms of how we design future schemes.

It is important to note that the agriculture sector is vitally important to our overall economy. The Deputy and I both agree on that. In 2002, our agrifood exports were worth over €18.7 billion. Wave a strong reputation at home and abroad for high quality, safe food. We must protect and maintain this reputation. Our starting point is not to take for granted the money that farming contributes to our farm families and the rural economies in which they live.

Support for farmers is underpinned by the European Common Agricultural Policy. The current CAP strategic plan for the period 2023 to 2027 is the largest funded plan by Government to date, with a budget of €9.8 billion. In 2023, over €1.5 billion was paid to over 120,000 farmers. However, there is no doubt that this first year of the CAP has been challenging for farmers and the Department. The pace of regulatory change has been significant. The current CAP has introduced new rules on performance reporting and an increased focus on improving the environmental sustainability of the sector. Farmers across Europe and in Ireland have been highlighting the many challenges they are facing, and the difficulties in managing these, when considering changing climatic and economic conditions.

Taking this into account, I am acutely conscious of the need to keep the regulatory framework as simple as possible. The Commission has also taken this seriously and has proposed a package of simplification proposals to benefit both the farmers and the administrators of CAP funding. This package includes amending the basic legislation for the CAP strategic plan to reduce the burden on farmers and provide flexibility to member states to address issues affecting farmers arising from climatic conditions or other adverse events. This will have a real impact in Ireland. Small farmers with 10 ha or below will not be subject to inspections for conditionality, which was formerly known as cross-compliance, and therefore any financial penalties. This is a simplification for up to 20,000 farmers in Ireland. They must continue to meet the conditions required but will not be inspected or penalised under conditionality. Other farmers above 10 ha will still be subject to conditionality controls and any penalties arising. This change will apply to claims made in 2024.

There are a number of other changes to the good agricultural and environmental condition standards, GAECS. In addition, there is some additional flexibility to adjust the GAECS in limited circumstances to address issues arising from climatic conditions. This legislation is due to be published by the end of May and some elements such as the 10 ha exemption will be applicable retrospectively for 2024. Other elements can only be implemented by way of an amendment to the CAP strategic plan. We also need proportionate regulation to protect water quality, animal health and welfare and food safety and to ensure that high standards of food production and environmental protection are maintained in the European Union.

We must not forget that for decades the Common Agricultural Policy, combined with a strong CAP budget and robust operation of the Single Market, has supported farmers and is more sustainably delivering our food security. Farmers are at the core of this. In this regard, the Commission has surveyed farmers and advisers across Europe to get direct experience of their difficulties and preferences. This engagement with stakeholders is also continuing through the processes of the strategic dialogue led by Commission President Ursula von der Leyen. I support this work which aims to avoid polarisation in this debate. In addition, the Commission is conducting a survey of farmers across Europe to assess the administrative burden. This will inform future work by the Commission around administrative burden. This work is continuing at EU level. The Minister and I and our officials will continue to work with the Commission and other member states to further simplify the CAP.

Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan

I thank the Minister of State. He clearly has a great understanding of the bureaucracy and paperwork that is faced. The sector needs regulation; every sector needs some form of regulation. However, it has to be balanced. I welcome the recent news on the exemption for farms under 10 ha, which will benefit 20,000 farmers. It will be interesting to see how that plays out on the ground. Many farmers will not be exempt and will still face endless reams of paperwork and form-filling.

One of the most frustrating things that comes across is this idea of the goalposts changing with different schemes. That is where I am sensing a lot of frustration. I will give an example of a farmer in my constituency. I am sure the Minister of State has the same issues coming into his constituency office where an "i" has not been dotted or a "t" has not been crossed. We had a farmer who applied for the tillage incentive scheme in 2023. He applied on time and was successful. However, because of reasons completely out of his control, he lost about eight or nine acres of land which he was leasing and the landowner decided to sell. As there was a reduction in the total number of acres he was farming, he no longer qualified for the tillage incentive scheme. That is a massive financial loss for that farmer. To give another example, we know how farmers have been and will be impacted by derogation when the whole country goes to 220 kg N/ha. There is a lack of flexibility within these schemes. A farmer was transporting slurry to another farm in order to come within the derogation stocking rate and so on. Because the farmer receiving the slurry had not signed a particular form on time or whatever, the original farmer was penalised. Farmers are sick of the penalties. There needs to be more flexibility. There needs to be a bit more compassion shown for farmers in these situations. That is all we are asking for here.

Deputy Martin Heydon

Deputy O'Sullivan raises valid points. The thing that strikes me when he is talking is that farmers are no different from any other business people. Anybody in business will tell us they can take difficult conditions once they have certainty. If they have certainty, they know where they are at. When things change it is a source of great frustration.

It is important when we talk about the CAP to reflect on its history. The first draft of the current CAP was produced in 2019. It was on foot of Brexit and Britain's 10% contribution to the overall multi-annual financial framework being reduced. Phil Hogan was Commissioner at the time. Money had to be clawed back through environmental and other measures to make sure the overall CAP budget was not reduced and we had to then try to make that fit. We are in a different world now compared to 2019, following the invasion of Ukraine and Covid. I have consistently felt that there was a complacency in Europe before that time, albeit less so now, around what the CAP did. Europe initially was a peace project and the CAP was fundamental to that, providing food security. The biggest source of conflict around the world is hunger and famine. Just as Europe got a little bit complacent about peace in Europe, we got a little bit complacent about food security as well. Ireland did not. We have always been to the fore pushing the importance of the CAP. The next CAP discussions will start soon. The current CAP ends and the new one has to be ready to go in 2027. We will have discussions starting on the CAP and, with Ireland in the Presidency in 2026, we will have a key role in finalising that CAP. Those discussions will start from next year. We will need to make sure we have a strong CAP that is protected with a strong budget and is simpler for farmers. I fully accept the frustrations the Deputy described. I hear them as well. Working with European partners and having that focus in the Government, we will be able to make it simpler for farmers the next time around and make sure the focus is on food security and producing the top-quality food that our farmers produce the length and breadth of this country.

Teacher Training

Deputy Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire

Currently, it is not possible to avail of primary teacher education in the Cork area. People have to leave Cork. There is a serious gap in provision. It is well worth exploring. The Minister of State is aware that the cost-of-living crisis is having a significant impact on students' choices. Previously, people in outlying areas might have moved to Cork, Limerick or Dublin but increasingly the cost of rent means that is less of a choice. For people in Cork who are from a low-income background, the option to take up primary teacher education is restricted because it is extremely difficult to move from Cork.

There are almost 600,000 people in Cork at this stage, including approximately 250,000 living in the metropolitan area. As such, a substantial number of people stand to benefit from a change.

University College Cork, UCC, has identified an opportunity here to provide a pipeline of capable new teachers to primary education and offer people a beneficial career. It has been working on developing a comprehensive professional master of education primary teaching course. The programme's design has reached an advanced stage and UCC expects to receive full approval for it next month. The course is intended to contribute to the broader goals of access and inclusion in education. By establishing a local programme, it will be possible to make teacher education more accessible to aspiring educators in Cork by eliminating barriers.

That proposal needs clearance from key stakeholders, in particular, the Department of Education. UCC is in an unusual position in that it has been identified by the Department of Education as a centre of excellence because of its role in training and the centre of education located in the university, which provides a great deal in post-primary education. However, there is currently no route for people from the area to access primary teacher education locally. This is a significant gap. I hope the Department of Education will respond positively to the proposal. While it would not deliver a result overnight, it would benefit the Cork area and the education system by creating more opportunities for people who could otherwise make different choices and decide to go down a different career route because of the lack of accessibility to a primary teacher education route in Cork.

I look forward to the Minister of State's response. I hope he will take this proposal on board.

Deputy Martin Heydon

I thank Deputy Ó Laoghaire for raising this important issue. Under section 38 of the Teaching Council Act, all initial teacher education programmes must be accredited by the Teaching Council for registration purposes. There are two standard routes recognised by the Teaching Council to become a primary teacher. These are a four-year undergraduate bachelor of education programme and a two-year postgraduate professional master of education programme. There are four State-funded higher education institutions, HEIs, providing primary initial teacher education, ITE, namely, Dublin City University, DCU, institute of education; Marino Institute of Education; Maynooth University; and Mary Immaculate College. Each of these offers both a full-time primary ITE undergraduate and a postgraduate programme. There is one private provider, Hibernia College, which provides postgraduate programmes only, primary and post primary.

The number of students admitted to primary, concurrent and consecutive programmes in State-funded HEls is determined by the Minister for Education, having regard to teacher supply and demand issues, and available resources. The work of the Department on matters related to teacher supply and demand continues. A technical report, Developing a Teacher Demand and Supply Model for lreland 2020-2038, which was published in 2019, is being updated and will inform proposals for future development in this area. The report is expected to be published in the autumn.

Recognising issues which have been experienced with teacher supply at primary level in recent years, the Minister for Education approved 610 additional places in primary programmes in the current State-funded providers. There were 90 additional places on the bachelor of education programme in 2023 and 2024, making a total of 1,090 each year; 30 additional places on the bachelor of education through the medium of Irish in 2023, making a total of 60 in 2023; and 200 additional places on the professional master of education primary teaching programme in 2023 and 2024, making a total of 400 each year.

On a final note, last year, the Minister for Education published an initial teacher education policy statement which presented a vision for policy and provision across the sector. One of the guiding principles of the policy is the continuation of the vision that initial teacher education will be led by a small number of university-led centres of teacher education excellence and that each of these will have a critical mass to provide for good teaching, research and international co-operation, with structures to ensure meaningful collaboration across education sectors. The policy statement also seeks to ensure that initial teacher education is strongly connected with and relevant to the needs of the education system so that, to the greatest extent possible, provision is aligned to the needs of the system. Future plans regarding provision at primary level will be informed by this also.

The Department, in its strategy and policy statement, clearly outlines the vision for provision across the sector and highlights the importance of not having stand-alone programmes but having a plugged-in and co-ordinated system.

Deputy Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire

I am used to generic responses to Topical Issue matters, and I am not blaming the Minister of State for this one, but the question I raised was to discuss the need to provide primary teacher training in Cork. The Minister of State's reply must add up to a few hundred words, none of which is "Cork" and none of which deals with the specific issue, namely, the location of teacher training, which is a significant part of the question I am raising. Nobody is suggesting that any of this would happen extraneous to the system but what is required is that the Department provide a favourable response to UCC in developing its plans in order that it can, with confidence, invest in what is required to secure the support of the Teaching Council and HEI accreditation. The university needs Department co-operation and support to deliver this.

The Department's statement indicates that it recognises "issues which have been experienced with teacher supply". That is a point well made but there are people in the Cork area who are not in a position to travel to the other universities or take up the Hibernia College courses because of their situation and the cost-of-living crisis they face.

According to the statement, "One of the guiding principles of the policy is the continuation of the vision that initial teacher education will be led by a small number of university-led centres of teacher education excellence". UCC is already recognised as a centre of excellence because of its very long record of work in this area. Some of the most well-known education academics in the country, for example, Áine Hyland, have worked at UCC's school of education, which is a well established and recognised centre of excellence. UCC would fit very much into the "small number of university-led centres of teacher education excellence ... [with] critical mass to provide for good teaching, research and international co-operation". The university meets all those criteria. I recognise that it needs to do all that is required with regard to the Teaching Council but it first needs a positive response from the Department and an indication from it that it will support the proposal. UCC can then invest the money required to ensure classes can be delivered in the next year or two.

Deputy Martin Heydon

I thank the Deputy. In answering on behalf of the Minister for Education, I apologise for not specifically referring to Cork, which was mentioned in the Deputy's question. In fairness, the answer outlined the rationale for the situation as it has existed to date. It sets out what will inform future plans for provision at primary level, as the Deputy highlighted. The key point is that the guiding principles are "that initial teacher education will be led by a small number of university-led centres of teacher education excellence and that each of these will have a critical mass to provide for good teaching, research and international co-operation, with structures to ensure meaningful collaboration across education sectors." I accept the Deputy's point about the difficulties potential students in Cork have with regard to travel. From its response, it is fair to say that the focus of the Department of Education is on having a structure that provides the best possible outcomes as regards what our education system needs, which evolves and changes over time.

The response is silent on whether there will be new and additional centres. The guiding principle is that there will be a small number of university-led centres. From my role in the Department of agriculture as Minister of State with responsibility for research and innovation, I know there is excellence in UCC. If the Department of Education is minded in the future to expand the number of centres, I imagine an institution like UCC would be well placed to be included in that. I note the Deputy is asking that if additional capacity is to be provided, the relevant institutions be given a nod in order to have an opportunity to invest and prepare for that. I presume that would be done on an open basis and that, as with any tender process, everyone would have a fair crack at it.

I am trying to get across the policy considerations of the Department.

There is complexity around planning provision for initial primary teacher education. There are a lot of changes in our demographics and population and what we need in terms of primary teacher allocation in future will change from what we need now. We need to take into account the policy objective to ensure initial teacher education is strongly connected with, and relevant to, the needs of the education system. The publication of the next technical report with supply and demand data will be an important next step in this regard. This is where the next window is for the likes of UCC and others.