There is an amendment to this Section in the name of Senator Butler, but I have to rule it out of order because it is inconsistent with the principle of the Bill which has already been affirmed by the Seanad. This amendment is practically equivalent to rejecting the Bill, and I, therefore, cannot allow it to be discussed. The next amendment is also in the name of Senator Butler.
SEANAD IN COMMITTEE.
The Seanad then went into Committee on the Summer Time Bill, 1923.
SECTION 1.
(1) The time for general purposes in Saorstát Eireann shall, during the period of Summer Time, be one hour in advance of West-European time.
(2) Wherever any reference to a point of time occurs in any enactment, Order in Council, Order, regulation, rule, bylaw, deed, notice or other document whatsoever, the time referred to shall, during the period of Summer Time, be deemed, subject as hereinafter provided, to be the time as fixed for general purposes by this Act.
(3) Nothing in this Act shall affect the use of West-European time for purposes of astronomy, meteorology, or navigation, or affect the construction of any document mentioning or referring to a point of time in connection with any of those purposes.
Motion made and question proposed: —"That Section 1 stand part of the Bill."
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
With the leave of the Seanad I would like to withdraw that amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
I beg to move: Section 1, Sub-section (1), to delete the words "West European" and to substitute therefor the word "Dublin." The time in use in every country generally has some relation to the sun time and to the geographical position of the country. For the past four or five years it has been different in this country owing to the adoption of Greenwich time. What I propose is that the time formerly in force in this country be adopted, namely Dublin time.
I beg to second the amendment. I noticed that the Minister said yesterday that this twenty-five minutes that we put on in order to be with the English time did not count, and that it had nothing to do with the matter. Considering that it puts us on one and a half hours, instead of one hour as in England, I think it has very much to do with the matter. It seems to me rather like the man who drank a quarter of a bottle of whiskey and when he was advised not to drink any more said the quarter bottle did not count and that he must drink the remaining three-quarters. I think it is very unreasonable that we should be one hour and forty minutes, as it will be in parts of Ireland, in advance of sun time, and that we should go by Dublin time.
The strongest argument against the amendment is the position we would be in with regard to the Six Counties.
Amendment put and negatived.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
The next amendment is in the name of Senator Linehan. I will allow this amendment to be moved though I am not sure whether it is consistent with the principle of the Bill as already ratified by the Seanad. Inasmuch as there is a Sub-section providing for certain exceptions I am not prepared to rule that it is not in order.
I beg to move: Section 1, Sub-section (3), before the word "astronomy" to insert the word "agriculture." The Sub-section will then read "Nothing in this Act shall affect the use of West European time for the purposes of agriculture, astronomy, meterology or navigation, or affect the construction of any document mentioning or referring to a point of time in connection with any of these purposes." In the debate yesterday most of the members in favour of the Bill were quite willing that the agricultural community should fix their own time for their own business. The object of the amendment is to carry that out, so that agriculture would be in the same position as astronomy, and the other matters mentioned.
It is hardly necessary to speak against this amendment. It would have the effect of making the Sub-section somewhat ridiculous. The Sub-section is put in for the purpose of not interfering with astronomical tables and regulations in regard to navigation, matters that do not touch the everyday life of the country, and which can easily have a special time of their own apart from the time that is generally observed. It would be impossible to give effect to this Sub-section if the amendment were inserted. Trains will convey milk, for instance, and possibly the running of a train might be said to be for the purpose of agriculture, and it might be argued that it would be impossible to alter the time at which the trains should run or to use Summer Time for the purpose of the railway time tables. I do not think the amendment is one that should be inserted. It would remove any clarity that there is in the Bill, and make the whole thing entirely confused and incapable, I think, of construction. Certainly, if it were put in I think there would be plenty of scope for litigation.
Amendment put and negatived.
I beg to move: Section 1, Sub-section (3), to insert after this Sub-section a new Sub-section (4) as follows:—"(4) Nothing in this Act shall affect the time of opening and closing of schools." The object of the amendment is to make it clear that the time of opening and closing of schools should not be affected by this Bill. I think it was admitted by everybody that there is some hardship in having school children, especially in rural districts, attending school at such early hours
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
Is it intended to prevent the application of this to schools?
It is left an open question.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
Is it not left an open question in the Bill?
I understand there is nothing to prevent the teacher opening at any hour.
The school will be under the control of the Minister for Education.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
Your amendment does not hamper him.
The amendment gives him a freer hand than he has at present.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
I do not think your amendment will accomplish any useful purpose. I think it leaves the matter where it was.
It will make it clear to the people who have the fixing of the time for the opening of schools that there is nothing in the Summer Time Act affecting them.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
I will not rule it out if you press it.
I thought we had a statement yesterday, and that it was clearly stated the time of opening was left entirely to the discretion of the schools themselves.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
That is the reason I call attention to the fact that this amendment will accomplish nothing.
I thought we had a positive assurance to that effect.
We had not.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
Senator Cummins said so in the course of the debate, and if you take that as infallible you may assume that it is so. I myself am not in a position to say anything about it.
If we could extract some information it would be a guide to us in deciding what to do.
I am not quite sure if the powers of the manager are as Senator Cummins stated, that the manager of a school can alter the time, but certainly he can do so with the assent of the Minister for Education. No obstacle will be placed in the way of any manager who wants to keep the hour for opening a school the same by sun time as before the passing of this Bill if he desires to do so. I think this amendment has no real effect, and if it did add anything to the Bill it would mean that schools in the city that might desire to avail of it would be prevented from observing Summer Time. I believe the amendment would not have any effect, and that consequently it should not be put in.
Amendment put and negatived.
Question: "That Section 1 stand part of the Bill," put and agreed to.
SECTION 2.
"For the purposes of this Act the period of Summer Time shall be taken to be the period beginning at two o'clock, West-European time, in the morning of the day next following the third Saturday in April, or, if that day is Easter Day, the day next following the second Saturday in April, and ending at two o'clock, West-European time, in the morning of the day next following the third Saturday in September."
Motion made and question proposed: "That Section 2 stand part of the Bill."
I ask leave to withdraw my amendment to Section 2, "To delete words ‘West European' and substitute therefor the word ‘Dublin.'"
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
"Question: "That Section 2 stand part of the Bill,," put and agreed to.
SECTION 3.
In this Act the expression "West European time" means Greenwich mean time.
Motion made and question proposed: "That Section 3 stand part of the Bill."
The same applies to the following amendment, Section 3 "To delete the whole Section, and to substitute therefor the following:—"3. In this Act the expression ‘Dublin Time' means Mean Time at Dunsink Observatory.' "
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Question: That Section 3 stand part of the Bill," put and agreed to.
SECTION 4.
(1) This Act may be cited as the Summer Time Act, 1923.
(2) This Act shall continue in force until the thirty-first day of December, nineteen hundred and twenty-three, and no longer, unless the Oireachtas otherwise determines.
Motion made and question proposed: "That Section 4 stand part of the Bill."
I move: Section 4—"To delete the word ‘Summer' and to substitute therefor the word ‘New.'" Summer usually means three months of the year. The period in the Bill covers longer than what is usually known as the Summer Time so that I think it is misleading.
I think the Seanad will hardly accept the amendment when it has accepted the principle of the Bill. The amendment could only be designed for the purpose of throwing a certain amount of ridicule on the Bill.
Amendment put and negatived.
I move: Section 4, Sub-section (2), to delete the words "thirty-first day of December" and to substitute therefor the words "thirtieth day of September." According to the provisions of the Bill it is not intended that it should be enforced after the third Saturday in September. I do not know what is the object of prolonging it to the 31st December unless it is intended to make it a permanent Act by bringing it in later under the Expiring Laws Continuance Bill.
I do not see any possible object in keeping it up until December. The Bill will end in September according to agreement, and it cannot begin again until April next year. In fact a new Bill will have to be reintroduced. What is the good of leaving it on until December?
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
Perhaps someone might ask what is the harm?
Why put in a thing that is wrong, even if there is no harm in it? I would like to have it right.
I take it that the main object of continuing it until the 31st December is that possibly there will be an Expiring Laws Continuance Act, and that this Act can be included with others. To have different yearly Acts ending at different periods of the year would cause complications.
Senator Douglas has stated the reason for putting in 31st December. In September there will be an Expiring Laws Continuance Act, under which a number of Acts will be continued for another year. It is intended that the Summer Time Bill will be included in that list, but if the Seanad then chooses to strike it out they can do so. If they do not wish to strike it out we will get rid of the necessity of having a new Bill being put through all stages in both Houses next year. It is merely a matter of convenience, and if it is desired to continue the Summer Time it can be done with less waste of time, while on the other hand if not it can easily be struck out.
The object is to slip the thing through with a bunch of other Acts, when it will not be noticed.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
I am sure Colonel Moore if you are here it will be noticed.
Amendment put and negatived.
Question: "That Section 4 stand part of the Bill," put, and agreed to.
Question put: "That the Summer Time Bill, 1923, be received for final consideration."
Agreed.
Question put: "That the Bill be now passed."
Agreed.