Seanad Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 16 Apr 2024

An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

Senator Mary Seery Kearney

The Order of Business is No. 1, statements on agriculture, to be taken at 3.45 p.m. and to conclude at 5.30 p.m. if not previously concluded, with the time allocated to the opening contribution of the Minister not to exceed ten minutes, group spokespersons not to exceed ten minutes, of which time can be shared, all other Senators not to exceed five minutes and the Minister to be given no less than ten minutes to reply to the debate; No. 2 Health (Termination of Pregnancy Services) (Safe Access Zones) Bill 2023 – Committee Stage (resumed), to be taken at 5.30 p.m. and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 7.30 p.m. by the putting of one question from the Chair, which will, in respect of the amendments, include only those set down or accepted by Government.

I will be moving a motion for expression of sympathy by the House for the late Senator Richard Dowling at the end of the Order of Business.

Senator Timmy Dooley

As the Acting Leader will appreciate, there is great concern across the world about the heightened tensions emerging in the Middle East. Iran’s reaction to provocation by Israel in recent days has brought the situation to a very serious level. It would be a welcome opportunity to invite the Tánaiste to the House at his convenience to discuss with us what he has been doing in recent weeks, not just at national and Government level but on the wider European stage.

It would also be timely to extend that debate to include a discussion on the war in Ukraine. It has been off the international media agenda for some time and the situation there is deteriorating. Members will have heard the request from various levels within the Ukrainian Government for air defence system support. They talk about needing seven or eight batteries of Patriot defence missiles to protect their cities and we understand there are some 70 or 80 of such batteries of air defence systems across Europe. Much public discourse has been about the failure of the US Administration to provide that $60 billion support but, in truth, it is within the capacity of the European to Union to provide air defence systems that will protect key infrastructure and key cities that are targeted by the Russians. There is a debate to be had. We have to focus a little more on what we can do at European level rather than just berating Congress for its failures to reach an agreement.

Another point many people would not necessarily be surprised at - but it would help to continue their annoyance - is what emerged in the courts yesterday around the telecommunications company Eir and the practice it has maintained internally that is clearly a strategy to discourage people from attaining their rights under domestic legislation with regard to the processing of their claims. I happen to sit on that committee and we have had a previous chief executive come before us and set out a whole plethora of reasons it had failed along the way - some of it had to do with staffing and some of it had to do with outsourcing that had not worked because it went to territories outside of the European Union - and how it was going to make good to the Irish consumer. However, we now discover it had prepared manuals internally effectively directing staff with the threat of sanction if they did not ignore Irish consumer law. It seems bizarre that something like that would find its way into a manual. We have heard of managers in certain organisations wanting to achieve certain targets going rogue. However, where the institution itself goes to the point of producing manuals against following domestic legislation, there is a serious problem. It is something that could be debated more broadly here with the Minister in due course.

Senator Joe O'Reilly

It is my sad duty to join with the Cathaoirleach and Acting Leader in expressing words of sympathy and condolence on the passing of former Teachta Dála, Senator and councillor, Dick Dowling. Dick was a secondary teacher in De La Salle school in Waterford. He was a mathematician of excellence and an extraordinarily intelligent man. He had a huge reputation for his mathematical skills and abilities, and as a teacher. He was a lovely human being.

He was gregarious, pleasant and engaging to meet, in conversation and in every regard. He was a brilliant public speaker. One of his colleagues said to me that he could put something so succinctly that he could get a lot said in a few minutes, which is something the Cathaoirleach would probably commend to the House and hopefully will not be an issue with my speech. His wife, Máirín, was also a teacher, at primary school level. I know her, too, and I convey my deep sympathy to her, the four boys and two daughters. It is a sad occasion. As the Cathaoirleach outlined earlier, apart from being a wonderful human being, Dick Dowling was notably a great family man and a lover of people. He had concern and was empathetic. Complementary to and simultaneously with that, he had a distinguished political career. As outlined, he was a Teachta Dála for Kilkenny from 1982 to 1987. He served as a Senator on the Labour Panel, which, as the Cathaoirleach and I are aware, is a particular distinction and an onerous task. He did that with distinction. He stood unsuccessfully as a Fine Gael candidate but was then elected in a general election after he was elected as a Senator. He won a Dáil seat in November 1982. He had a distinguished career here in the Oireachtas. His contributions were noteworthy, as were his camaraderie with colleagues and his capacity to deliver to individuals and his community.

He was elected first to Kilkenny County Council in 1974 for the Piltown electoral area and was a county councillor until 2009, which is relatively recently. His home was near Waterford. Interestingly, the city of Waterford was seeking to expand northwards across the River Suir onto land which is in County Kilkenny, and sought a revision of the county boundaries to enable this. Dowling was a strong opponent of such expansion, describing the county boundaries as sacrosanct. He had that sense of history and tradition. When the proposal was formally made, he said local people would not be satisfied with any extension. He stood up for his people at all times.

He was a distinguished member of the ETB and served on the board of Abbey Community College, near Mooncoin. He had an excellent career and was a truly good man. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam.

Senator Rónán Mullen

I join in the tributes and words of sympathy to the Dowling family. We should not be surprised that it is an onerous task to be a Senator on the Labour Panel. It is certainly a laborious task anyway.

I make the point to the Ceannaire Gníomhach, Senator Seery Kearney, that it is about ten months since the scandal of the secret payments at RTÉ emerged, causing the State broadcaster to take a massive credibility hit. It was a serious scandal, with Oireachtas inquiries bringing to light the corruption, hubris, sense of entitlement and, indeed, arrogance on display at different points at the heart of RTÉ. Many of us hoped this would lead to a new awareness in the State broadcaster of its obligations not just to some of the people, but to all of the people.

In that light, I want to express my shock and disappointment at the "RTÉ Investigates" programme that was aired last night. It was sad for its content but it was truly shocking for its one-sidedness and bias and its complete failure to depict another side of an important and distressing story. It completely failed to hear from representatives of the many thousands of people who are opposed to abortion in this country. The programme stated that seven months of work went into producing the end product aired last night. I would like to know exactly how much taxpayers' money was poured into producing what amounted to an activist-driven propaganda piece. Pro-abortion activism was at the core of this programme. Prominent activists were centre stage. Shockingly, they were depicted simply as experts. For example, Dr. Jonathan Lord was described as a consultant gynaecologist but there was no mention of the fact that he is the medical director of MSI Reproductive Choices, one of the largest abortion providers in Britain. Within the first ten minutes of the programme, a recording of a phone call between a woman who rang the HSE's My Options hotline and a counsellor was played.

She stated that she was 14 weeks pregnant but did not mention an abortion. In response, we hear the counsellor immediately telling her that she cannot, under the law, have an abortion and straight away referring her to the Abortion Support Network. So much for non-directive services, but nothing here seemed to raise any eyebrows in RTÉ. Why such emphasis on having an abortion and not promoting positive alternatives? Is it any wonder our abortion rate has skyrocketed since 2018? There are suggestions that more than 10,000 abortions took place in 2023. There was no mention of this spiralling abortion rate and no mention of questions around precautionary pain relief in late-term abortions. We heard euphemistic language about what happens to a disabled or severely disabled child in a late-term abortion but no focus on the reality of what happens to the baby in that dreadfully tragic situation.

When people tell me this is this is the reason they do not pay their licence fee any more, I do not blame them. No fairness, no licence fee would be the motto of many people. Much more importantly, I echo the calls of the Pro Life Campaign for a special Oireachtas committee to examine the issue of bias and impartiality within the State broadcaster and its lack of objectivity. I echo this call because all sides should be heard. So many people are not being served well by our State broadcaster on this issue in particular.

Senator Marie Sherlock

I, too, offer my condolences to the family, colleagues and friends of the late Senator Dowling.

I wish to raise the issue of the school transport scheme, which is now open for applications but which will close later this month, and how it is designed. The rules of the scheme, particularly the criteria that students need to live 3.2 km away from a primary school or 4.8 km from a secondary school in order to qualify, demonstrate that it is very much designed with rural schools and communities in mind. There is no attempt to meet the demands of an urban population. In this day and age, when we look at attempts, particularly in urban areas, to promote active travel and ensure that kids can walk, cycle or travel by bus to school, it is incredible that we have a scheme which should be meeting student's needs but which is simply not doing so.

There is a great example of a sustainable village project currently taking place in Cabra that is looking at how to promote more active travel in that particular community. Every day there are lots of parents dropping kids off to school in cars. We know from those involved in the sustainable village project who conducted a survey across a number of schools in the Cabra area that there were 160 expressions of interest in a bus for children who travel from Finglas to the Cabra area. This should not be rocket science but, unfortunately, Bus Connects will not provide for that particular linkage in the new roll-out of routes across Dublin over the coming years. As a result, I am left to appeal to the Ministers for Education and Transport in respect of this matter.

In an ideal world, the Minister for Transport would take a view on this, given that so much of the rest of his Department is trying to promote active travel but when I contacted his Department, I was told that this is a matter for the Department of Education. The critical issue here is that while we have the school transport scheme being operated by Bus Éireann on behalf of the Department of Education, it cannot be left solely to that Department to look at the objectives of the scheme. I appeal to the Leader to write to the Ministers for Transport and Education to ask them to consider reviewing the rules of the scheme.

I take this opportunity to congratulate Deputy Peter Burke on his appointment as Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment and Deputy Emer Higgins on her appointment as Minister of State in the same Department. However, I wish to point out that in all of the interviews they have conducted over the past week, we have heard many references to supports for businesses and raiding the National Training Fund, but we have barely heard any references to the warehoused tax debts that will fall due by the end of this month and what the State is going to do to support businesses in that context. Neither have we heard anything from them regarding the collective bargaining directive that has to be transposed into Irish law by November. I would like the Minister and the Minister of State to be invited to the Chamber for a debate on those issues.

Senator Ned O'Sullivan

I support Senator Dooley's call for a debate on recent developments in the Middle East in the context of the unprecedented attack by Iran against the State of Israel, which has been highly condemned all over the world. The fact that the onslaught did not result in widespread death and injury does not lessen the significance and enormity of what Iran did. That there were no widespread fatalities reflects the type of defence mechanism the Israeli people have been forced to put in place to protect themselves from a wide variety of anti-Israel extremists whose sworn aim is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. This is sometimes lost in the debate on Gaza. Naturally, we are hugely sympathetic to the terrible plight of the citizens of Gaza. We must remember that the initial act on 7 October was carried out by Hamas but was sanctioned and most likely inspired by Iran, which has also sworn to destroy Israel.

We in Ireland sympathise with the suffering of the Palestinian people, but we now have to readjust our focus somewhat. There has been a change If we want global security and peace in our time, we need to identify the real enemy and what side we are on. When we see protests for Gaza again, just remember that despite there being well-minded people in that group, there is also more than a sprinkling of individuals who are against Western values. As an Irishman, I am ashamed to say that there is more than a sprinkling of anti-Semitism involved. Let us take stock of ourselves. Let us condemn Iran outright. I look forward to people going onto the streets to protest about Iran. I do not expect to see it, however.

Senator Tim Lombard

Like my colleague Senator Joe O'Reilly, I compliment the wonderful work and distinguished career of Dick Dowling, who, as a councillor, Senator and TD, was a wonderful public representative from the mid-1970s into the 1980s and Garret Fitzgerald's era in politics. His death represents a significant loss to the Fine Gael family and to people in his home county of Kilkenny. I want to acknowledge that in any way I can.

I want to raise what is a major issue in my part of the world, namely a bus service that was cancelled literally ten weeks after it started. The 228 bus route runs from Kinsale to Fivemilebridge through Ballinhassig and all the way into Cork city via Bishopstown. The route serves two colleges and a hospital. It is a significant part of public transport infrastructure. It started on 16 October. I understand that negotiations about changing the route started in early January. There is now an indication that the route will be permanently changed and that, as a result, Ballinhassig will have no bus service. Students on the route from Kinsale used this bus service to get to the two colleges to which I refer. I spoke to a person yesterday who is receiving cancer treatment in Cork University Hospital, CUH, who will no longer have access to a bus service.

Ten weeks after the route was launched, the National Transport Authority, NTA, agreed to having the service altered. There is a significant issue here in the context of accountability. The first question we must ask relates to who the NTA spoke to about this matter. I wrote to the NTA on 4 January but it would not deal with me. Now this major change has happened. Ballinhassig needs a bus service. Commuters need the service. Significant moneys are being put into smarter travel and other initiatives. For people to have only a bus service for ten or 12 weeks and for it then to be literally taken away is totally inappropriate.

I propose that we have a serious discussion with the Minister for Transport about the NTA in the context of its accountability. Who is accountable? I have emailed and telephoned the NTA. I was reliably informed that I would receive a response this afternoon. It has not arrived yet. I ask that the Cathaoirleach and the Acting Leader use their good offices in order to have the Minister come to the House in order that we can ask him about the governance of and accountability within the NTA and in order that patrons in Ballinhassig, which the Cathaoirleach knows very well, will have a bus service. There is no accountability within the NTA at present.

An Cathaoirleach

I am familiar with the area Senator Lombard is talking about. If the situation he has outlined is the case, that is deplorable. Ballinhassig is a population base that requires a bus service of significance.

Senator Gerard P. Craughwell

We had a junior Minister appointed to the Department of Defence in the recent reshuffle but given absolutely no responsibility in that Department. It is the second time this has happened.

As a democracy, we are one of the outliers in the world with respect to the fact that we do not have a published national security strategy. There was a statement published some time ago but that is not a strategy. In addition, we have a national security analysis centre and I know of nothing that it has produced. If we are honest in looking around Europe right now, Europe is on a war footing and the amount of money that is being pumped into defence all over the world is phenomenal. Poland has increased its expenditure on defence to 3.5%. The average across Europe is 3% but here in Ireland it is 0.2%. Does anybody in this country give a continental damn about the future security of this country? We have gas pipelines coming in from Scotland. We have undersea cables coming in from the United States. We have one naval ship to patrol all of that. Does anybody honestly believe it is being patrolled?

As for the Defence Forces, 50 people a month net are leaving the Defence Forces. We are down to 7,500 Defence Forces personnel and a junior Minister has been appointed and told she should not bother going near the Department of Defence as she has no business going there. That is wrong in every sense of the word. By the way, it was the Tánaiste and Minister for Defence, Deputy Micheál Martin, himself who said in the Dáil last week that the junior Minister has no role there.

It is time for the country to be asked how many Ministers we need. There are Ministers with seven or eight portfolios trying to run Departments. It would not happen in any organisation in the world other than here. With Minister carrying several portfolios, it is not possible to have the necessary level of oversight. We have to start getting serious about security in this country. If we want to be truly neutral, we have to defend our neutrality with significant expenditure on defence.

Senator Malcolm Byrne

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Chathaoirleach agus an Ceannaire Gníomheach. I am delighted to see Senator Seery Kearney in the Leader's chair today.

I echo the remarks of my colleague, Senator Dooley, concerning Eir and its disgraceful consumer service. Stronger action is needed against companies such as that for their appalling public service.

The issue I want to raise relates to the Order of Business for this week. We were due to debate the provisions around the unified patent court and the unified patent system tommorrow but I note that has come off the agenda, to be replaced by statements on reducing the cost of business. If a person applying for a patent has to apply in several European countries, that significantly increases the cost to the business, as well as the administrative burden. The Government was wrong to postpone this referendum. It is a matter the Acting Leader and I have spoken about previously. I appreciate that it is only important to and directly impacting on a small sector of Irish society but, for small business, content creators and inventors, it is vitally important. The problem is that a decision was taken in January to proceed with the referendum. I have been critical of the Government in the context of the failure to take action on foot of that decision.

If we believe in anything, we go out and sell those things that we believe in. I can certainly speak on the part of my party, which is a pro-European party and supports small business. A referendum such as this is something that we should have gone out and fought upon. The Government decision to postpone the referendum was wrong. There is a rich irony that the debate that was due to take place tomorrow is being replaced with statements on reducing the costs to business, yet we could have taken an effective step to be able to help a certain sector.

Senator John Cummins

I, too, join with colleagues in paying tribute to the late Dick Dowling.

I was at the funeral home in south Kilkenny for his removal. As my colleagues have pointed out, it is south Kilkenny. There has been no boundary extension into that area of Ferrybank. The funeral home had to be opened at 2.15 p.m. I arrived at 8 p.m. that evening and there was an hour of a queue after me. That goes to show the great regard Dick was held in. He was a councillor, a Senator and a TD. He will be missed dearly by his family, his friends and the entire Fine Gael family. I join with colleagues in paying tribute to him today.

I will also express my deep disappointment at the news that has broken in the last short while that Motorsport Ireland has confirmed that the rally championship that was scheduled to be held in Kerry, Limerick and Waterford over the next three years is now not to take place given a letter the body has received from the Minister of State, Deputy Byrne, confirming that the Department would require an additional six months to independently review the application submitted. That is a very disappointing decision for Ireland. It would have been absolutely fantastic to have the World Rally Championship here in Ireland. I am very disappointed with the decision. It would have brought a great deal to Waterford, Limerick and Kerry over the coming years and showcased our great country and everything we have to offer. I call for the Minister of State and the Government to seriously consider whether there could be a last-minute reprieve because it would be a retrograde step not to host this event over the next three years.

Senator Fintan Warfield

I will speak very briefly about the creative industries in the context of the Research and Innovation Bill 2024, which is coming through the House at the moment. I met with the Department and may submit an amendment to the Bill. I flag the importance of the creative and cultural industries in the future work of the new Taighde Éireann, which will replace Science Foundation Ireland and the Irish Research Council. The lack of research in the creative and cultural industries is a significant problem. They are very socially valuable industries. The arts, culture, heritage and audiovisual sectors are very valuable socially and economically. However, the figures we use to value the heritage sector come from 2009 while those for the arts come from 2010 and those for the audiovisual sector come from 2015. How can we make policy for these sectors with such out-of-date research? The fact that these figures come from different years is part of the challenge we face in understanding our culture. Perhaps we do not take it seriously enough to value it or to regularly track its value.

I recently read an interesting paper from Professor Daniel Carey and Dr. Steven Hadley. It argued that we need an evidence and policy research centre for culture, of which there are many in Britain, and that the Irish Research Council would be well placed to take on this role. As such, the future Taighde Éireann would be well placed to fund and support such cultural policy work.

I am just back from the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly, on whose economic committee I now sit. I will keep the House updated on the work of that committee. The creative industries are one area on which I hope to work alongside our colleagues from Westminster and across the islands.

Senator John McGahon

One very significant goal of this Government relates to the concept of apprenticeships. Work on this was started by the Taoiseach, our former Minister for higher education. We have done really well in that sector. We have more than 65 new apprenticeships today that we did not have four years ago and more people are taking up apprenticeships today than were doing so four years ago. We are on the right trajectory with it.

There is, however, one particular profession where there is no apprenticeship and about which I hope to meet the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, Deputy Patrick O'Donovan, in future, and this is an apprenticeship for tiling. While I would like a debate about the overall concept of apprenticeships, there are no apprenticeships for tiling in this country. We have seen a fall-off in the number of people entering that profession and when we look at the huge amount of house building we are embarking on, it is a profession that is frankly quite badly needed. According to the National Tiling Association of Ireland, there are four reasons we need an apprenticeship for tiling. First, it would be a recognition of it as the national organisation by Government. Second, it is important to have an education programme that is run and established through our local education and training boards, ETBs. Third, that education programme and CPD training would be open to existing tilers as well, so they could train and upgrade their skills. Fourth, having an apprenticeship in that area would provide a huge amount of guidance around the standards that are needed and it would quantify it and create a level playing field for all.

The previous Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, Deputy Simon Harris, had been very keen to initiate this. I hope his successor, the Minister, Deputy Patrick O'Donovan, will be able to continue on with it. Such an apprenticeship is greatly needed and it is a very important profession. We have so many new apprenticeships already and this is one we need to add to them. I would appreciate a debate at some stage in the future around some of the other professions that also need apprenticeships.

Senator Sharon Keogan

I call on the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, Deputy Roderic O'Gorman, to create a formal public consultation process on emergency refugee accommodation across the country. Recent national and international documentaries have addressed the ongoing issue of migration in Ireland and its impact on local communities. Our Government fails to cope with our growing international protection population and it fails to accommodate the needs of people living in this country as well as new arrivals. The tension, anger and unrest in our country is inescapable. Certain opportunists seize upon local communities who protest peacefully in their home towns and villages. They are concerned citizens who want transparency and accountability from their Government. Local amenities, such as water supplies, health services, school places, and general infrastructure needs, are strained by any population growth. Locals of Coole in County Westmeath, Roscrea in County Tipperary, Killarney in County Kerry and many other localities in Ireland have watched their local industries and amenities disappear because of Government contracts made with little or no transparency.

Locals have concerns about the lack of hotel accommodation and function spaces, and about the effects of a 50% population increase - in one case 100% in a village - on water services and other services due to integration of their population. The Government is nowhere to be seen on these issues. We need less conversation about international obligations and more about national obligations.

We owe the people of Ireland a robust public consultation system that ensures a platform to allow input from locals regarding significant changes made to their communities in respect of international protection accommodation services, IPAS contracts. Otherwise, we can only expect the anger to continue and the Government is not exonerated from its obligation to appease public discontent.

Senator Martin Conway

I, too, would like to be associated with the lovely words of tribute to former Senator, Deputy and Councillor Dick Dowling. Senator O'Reilly certainly gave a wonderful tribute, and we would all like to be associated with his words. Mr. Dowling certainly mentored some great people in the political world. He mentored the former Commissioner, Minister and Deputy, Phil Hogan. He also mentored Deputy John Paul Phelan. Mr. Dowling made a significant contribution to politics, to this House and to this country.

I also pass on my sympathies to the Murphy family on the passing of Councillor Gerard Murphy today, another former Member of the Houses of the Oireachtas. I would like to pass on my sympathies to the Murphy family and the people of Newmarket in Cork and the surrounding areas he represented for so long.

I am disappointed to hear the World Rally Championship that was going to be held in Limerick, Kerry and Waterford is not going to happen because of red tape. This was going to be a huge benefit to the west of Ireland. It was going to be a massive boost in tourism numbers and it was going to get us worldwide attention. To think that this is not happening because of red tape is very worrying.

I was also horrified to see what was on "Prime Time" last night. As a country, we can and should be doing an awful lot better. I know we will be discussing issues surrounding safe access later today so I will use that opportunity to elaborate on those issues.

Senator Mark Daly

I join with the Cathaoirleach and colleagues in paying tribute to former Senator and councillor Richard Dowling. I thank him and his family for his service to the State, his county and the people he represented over many years both in his political life and teaching life and through his love of sport. We express our deepest sympathies to his wife, his sons and daughters and his extended family.

Senator Michael McDowell

I received an amended notice or indication of what would transpire tomorrow, including a motion regarding the State opting into the European regulations underlying the migration and asylum pact. I asked that the Joint Committee on Justice engage in a serious consideration of the proposal. This has the effect of bringing into Irish constitutional law, in effect, obligations and a surrendering of sovereignty rights of the most serious and far-reaching kind. I asked the clerk of the committee to ask the Cathaoirleach to agree that we could have a decent consideration involving taking witnesses and seeing where this was going to bring us and what was involved. I was told that this was not envisaged and that what was envisaged for next Tuesday was a half-day session where the only material available to the committee would be a briefing by the Minister for Justice.

An Cathaoirleach

It is due to be referred by the House to the committee-----

Senator Michael McDowell

That is the proposal but it will not get any consideration at all and this is what I want to alert everybody in this House to. This is a most serious matter. Today I was also given access to the speaking note for the Cathaoirleach of that committee and it makes clear that none of the Minister's officials can answer any questions and only the Minister will do it.

An Cathaoirleach

That is the norm for committees, as the Senator is aware.

Senator Michael McDowell

Yes but the committee is entitled to-----

An Cathaoirleach

The Senator is a former Minister. He should know that.

Senator Michael McDowell

I have a limited amount of time.

An Cathaoirleach

I will give the Senator time but he should be factual.

Senator Michael McDowell

Sorry-----

An Cathaoirleach

For the benefit of balance, the committee sets its own work programme, as the Senator knows. The clerk of the committee and its Cathaoirleach with the members, as the Senator knows as a former Minister-----

Senator Michael McDowell

I know full well what the arrangements are. I am saying that I have the speaking note for the Cathaoirleach of that committee, which involves an absolute whitewash. After the Minister has made her submissions and members have made contributions, that is the end of the matter and that is the only consideration that is proposed to be given to this proposal. I protest most strongly. This is a constitutional-level change to our laws. We are about to surrender to Europe complete competence in respect of asylum seeking, migration and the like. It is envisaged that in a half-day session commencing at 4 p.m. next Tuesday, that committee will receive one contribution from the Minister by way of a briefing and members will be enabled to ask her questions and that is the end of the matter. That is the full discussion that is envisaged.

An Cathaoirleach

I have given the Senator time.

Senator Michael McDowell

The reason I am mentioning this is because-----

An Cathaoirleach

Thank you.

Senator Michael McDowell

Just let me finish. The Cathaoirleach interrupted me.

An Cathaoirleach

The Senator is continually looking for attention. He has been given a lot of time on this issue and I am asking him to conclude.

Senator Michael McDowell

With respect, I have run into a barrage from the Chair.

An Cathaoirleach

You have not. Sorry-----

Senator Michael McDowell

I protest-----

An Cathaoirleach

One second now. I will let the Senator finish but he should understand that I did allow him time.

I am not against what he is talking about at all. Let me finish please. I did give you extra time and I will let you finish-----

Senator Michael McDowell

You gave me a lecture on what the normal procedure is in committees-----

An Cathaoirleach

I did not give you a lecture.

Senator Michael McDowell

-----I am fully aware of that-----

An Cathaoirleach

I did not give you a lecture.

Senator Michael McDowell

-----and I am saying this is a disgrace and I am going to bring to the attention of the media what is envisaged in relation to the so-called consideration. There is a picket outside of probable extremists but the people are entitled that their Parliament would not delegate to a committee consideration of a hugely important piece of law-----

An Cathaoirleach

Go raibh maith agat.

Senator Michael McDowell

-----and then have this whitewash charter decide what will happen at that committee.

An Cathaoirleach

And to assist you-----

Senator Michael McDowell

I do not need any assistance. I only need one assistance and that is your silence, Chair. I only need that assistance. I protest most strongly about what is happening. It is wrong. We are turning this Parliament into a rubber-stamp assembly and if anybody wants to look-----

An Cathaoirleach

Conclude now please. Thank you.

Senator Michael McDowell

-----at the recent referendum-----

An Cathaoirleach

Thank you. Go raibh maith agat. Your time is up, thank you.

Senator Michael McDowell

-----and what happens to rubber-stamp politics-----

An Cathaoirleach

You have been given a good extension now.

Senator Michael McDowell

-----as a result. Unfortunately in this case-----

An Cathaoirleach

Thank you. I ask you to conclude, please.

Senator Michael McDowell

-----the people will not be given their chance in a referendum vote.

An Cathaoirleach

Thank you.

Senator Michael McDowell

But the time has come, Chair, for people----

An Cathaoirleach

Thank you Senator. You have been given-----

Senator Michael McDowell

-----in both Houses to stand up for their rights as elected public representatives-----

An Cathaoirleach

You have been given a lot of latitude now.

Senator Michael McDowell

-----and to insist-----

An Cathaoirleach

You have been given a lot of latitude now.

Senator Michael McDowell

-----this measure is properly-----

An Cathaoirleach

Thank you Senator. Go raibh maith agat.

Senator Michael McDowell

-----considered before it becomes part of our law at constitutional level.

An Cathaoirleach

Go raibh maith agat. You have been given a lot of latitude. To assist you, I will make a point. I am not disagreeing with you at all. What I encourage you to do is, at the committee-----

Senator Michael McDowell

I wrote to the committee and-----

An Cathaoirleach

What I suggest-----

Senator Michael McDowell

-----I asked for a private session of the committee to consider what we would do. That is the reasonable thing to do. Instead I get this insult to parliamentary democracy.

An Cathaoirleach

Just to assist you, I suggest, as a former cathaoirleach of a committee, that you use the private members' time of the committee to articulate your viewpoint because it is more pertinent to the committee than to the Order of Business of the Seanad, and I am not disagreeing with you at all. I call Senator Carrigy.

Senator Michael McDowell

The public will not see any of that, as you well know.

An Cathaoirleach

Thank you.

Senator Michael McDowell

As you well know, this will be done behind closed doors.

An Cathaoirleach

You are a long-time Parliamentarian. You are well able to use the parliamentary practice to suit any narrative you wish to propose.

Senator Micheál Carrigy

I thank the Cathaoirleach. I concur with the sympathies that have been passed on to the families of Councillor Gerard Murphy and former councillor, Senator and TD, Dick Dowling of Kilkenny.

An issue close to my heart and to our local area of Longford-Westmeath are the paediatric diabetes services located in Mullingar General Hospital, which covers the Longford and Westmeath area. We have up to 145 attending the service but in recent times parents have been notified about disruption to the service due to a difficulty we have throughout the HSE with trying to get suitably-qualified people to staff that service. It is not acceptable. As I said, it is a serious situation. We have a lot of emergency situations, especially with kids, when it comes to diabetes and I want commitments. We should write to the Minister for Health to ensure this is prioritised so we maintain those services for those kids and give assurances to the families in the area that in the medium term we have a proper solution, but also in the longer term that we are able to ensure the stability of the services, which are based in the hospital in Mullingar.

An Cathaoirleach

I call on the Acting Leader to respond.

Senator Mary Seery Kearney

I thank the Cathaoirleach. I will start at the very beginning. Senator Dooley began contributions on the Order of Business by highlighting the tensions in the Middle East with regard to Iran and Ukraine. The fact is the latter is running out of munitions and a debate was sought in this House. It is something we need the Tánaiste to come in and speak to us about. He could perhaps include in that Sudan, which is on the edge of famine, if not already dipping into that. It is necessary and I certainly support that. That was supported elsewhere this morning by Senator O'Sullivan. Senator Dooley, along with others, also raised the situation with Eir yesterday. It has become apparent there is a systemic intentionality in denying people their rights.

It is disgraceful. I am glad that it was highlighted yesterday and again today. It is my observation that Eir has been involved in this sort of practice for a very long time, particularly if the commentary on social media and previous commentary on the company is anything to go by.

Senator Joe O'Reilly, along with many other Senators, offered condolences to the family of Dick Dowling, former Teachta Dála, Senator and councillor, and highlighted Mr. Dowling's distinguished record of public service. There is no question but that he offered a lifelong service that his country should be very appreciative of.

Senator Mullen spoke about last night's RTÉ programme. Senator Conway also referred to the programme, albeit from a different perspective. If Senator Mullen has a concern regarding bias in RTÉ, he should raise it with the Committee of Public Accounts, the media committee or perhaps in the form of a Commencement matter.

Senator Sherlock referred to the school transport scheme. The scheme is clearly designed with rural areas in mind and is very much needed. The Senator raised the fact there is no urban element to it, given that the criteria exclude most urban areas. She makes a valid point. I will ask the office to write to the Ministers for Education and Transport to encourage them to liaise on this matter and to highlight the need for an urban transport scheme. I know of an area of Dublin 8 where children are expected to go to an Educate Together school in Sandymount. They spend up to two hours per day commuting, which is quite shocking. The Senator offered her congratulations to the Minister, Deputy Burke, and the Minister of State, Deputy Higgins, as well as noting the debt warehousing and collective bargaining actions that are going to be required.

Senator O'Sullivan supported Senator Dooley's call for a discussion and asked for condemnation of Iran in an outright manner for its agitation and involvement and for, perhaps, being the puppeteer behind the commencement of the war in Gaza.

Senator Lombard referred to the cancellation of a vital bus service and questioned the NTA's accountability. I completely concur with him on that. Cork Members have yet to experience the excitement of BusConnects and how unaccountable the NTA can be in that regard. It is incumbent on us bring in, as I have requested over a long period, the Minister for Transport in order that we might discuss accountability with him. When you raise this as a Commencement matter, you are told the Minister does not have responsibility in this area. Who exactly in the State is accountable?

Senator Craughwell referred to the junior Minister in the Department of Defence, our security strategy - calling for publication of same - and the future security of the country.

Senator Malcolm Byrne raised the postponement of the referendum on the unified patent court and the irony that the debate on the relevant legislation is being replaced on the agenda of this House by statements on the cost of business. I will say two things about that. It is ironic and regrettable that the decision to postpone has been made, particularly as the move would be of clear and definite benefit to small businesses and innovators. However, I note that there has been an increase in the cost of business and that the deadline for the cost-of-business grants is 1 May next. We can use our platform here to highlight that.

Senator Cummins referred to the disappointment about the fact that the World Rally Championships will not now be going ahead here due to the Department requiring an extra six months to review the application. That is very disappointing. This matter was also raised by Senator Conway and others. I know from my own not-so-misspent youth following rally championships around the country how incredibly brilliant it is to be part of the community. As a result, what has happened is disappointing.

Senator Cummins asked for a letter from the House, which I will raise with the office. It may also be worthy of a Commencement matter and perhaps, given the support, that will be done jointly.

Senator Warfield raised the creative and cultural industries and their social value. I suspect he is going to table amendments to that Bill and perhaps we could all be educated in the audiovisual room with a presentation in that regard, which the Senator might consider. I thank him for highlighting the matter.

Senator McGahon raised the success of apprenticeships over recent years under the Taoiseach's former role as Minister for further and higher education and asked for tiling to be included, and why not, as a valuable profession within the construction industry especially. Perhaps that is suitable for a Commencement matter with the Minister, Deputy O'Donovan, given he has now settled into his role.

Senator Keogan wanted the Minister for integration to come to the House and perhaps it is time for statements on that subject in this House. In my experience in my home constituency of Dublin South-Central, the communication with the local community and through public representatives has been excellent, but perhaps the Minister could take statements in regard to where there are difficulties in that area. The concerns of citizens could also be raised.

Senator Mark Daly was among those expressing condolences for the family of Richard Dowling.

Senator McDowell will no doubt amplify the issue he raised, and I will also commit to raising it within my parliamentary party. Given that his contribution was one of the last on the Order of Business, I did not have time to seek advice, but I will make a couple of phone calls, see what we can do and revert to him on the advice in that regard because I am not sure whether legislation will be required. I would have thought, when I was reading it last week, that there was to be legislation at some point but I will take advice on that.

Senator Carrigy talked about the disruption to diabetes services for 145 children and stated this needs to be prioritised. I will ask the office to write to the Minister but I suggest it might be suitable material for a Commencement matter.

Order of Business agreed to.