Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 11 July 2017
30. Deputy Lisa Chambers asked the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the measures put in place to bolster the capacity of the Defence Forces in assisting in dealing with a major terrorist incident; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32776/17]
View answerWhat measures have been put in place to bolster the capacity of the Defence Forces in assisting in dealing with a potential major terrorist incident? What kind of planning has taken place? What threats have been identified? Are we ready?
The White Paper on Defence, published in the autumn of 2015, considered the security environment, including the threat from international terrorism. The security environment is kept under constant review. The White Paper notes that the Department of Justice and Equality and An Garda Síochána have primary responsibility for protecting the internal security of the State. The Defence Forces provide, on request, supports in aid to the civil power of an ongoing and contingent nature.
An Garda Síochána can request a broad range of supports from the Defence Forces, including explosive ordnance disposal teams and the Army Ranger wing. Ongoing co-ordination and liaison meetings take place between the Defence Forces and An Garda Síochána. Based on ongoing threat assessments, the Garda and the Defence Forces liaise with regard to possible Defence Forces supports required for a range of contingencies. As part of this co-operation, initiatives to enhance support and interoperability include the development of agreed protocols, joint seminars on response to a terrorist attack and tabletop exercises on crisis management.
I can confirm that there is very active co-operation between An Garda Síochána and the Defence Forces.
As Minister of State with responsibility for defence, my priority is to ensure that the operational capability of the Defence Forces is maintained to the greatest extent possible so as to enable the Army, Air Corps and Naval Service to carry out their roles as assigned by Government, including the provision of support in the form of aid to the civil power in the event of a terrorist incident.
The White Paper on Defence sets the defence capability agenda for the next decade. In recognising the dynamic nature of the security environment, the Government decided that the Defence Forces would continue to retain a range of flexible conventional military capabilities, in order to meet the roles assigned and as a hedge to future uncertainty.
A broad range of White Paper projects are currently being implemented which are intended to identify, develop and maintain such capabilities.
It remains a top priority for me and my Department to implement the White Paper projects and ensure that the operational capacity of the Defence Forces is maintained to the greatest extent possible.
Assessing the security environment is one thing but the issue is whether we are ready to deal with an incident. In that event, if there is an Islamic terrorist attack in the country - I hope we never see that day - the State's two specialist units, namely, An Garda Síochána's emergency response unit, ERU, and the Defence Forces Army Ranger Wing are both located on the east coast. Should an attack take place requiring specialist intervention in the south west or the north west, the transportation of the specialist forces would be a major challenge due to the geography of the country. The Air Corps does not have a troop-carrying vehicle to transfer personnel from one location to another. As a consequence, it would take us a number of hours to get the specialists to a particular location. If, for example, there was an incident in the Ring of Kerry or somewhere in Mayo, how would we transport the troops that we need or personnel from the ERU to that location? Could we reasonably respond in the same timeframe, for example, that the emergency units in the UK responded to the attacks that took place there recently? I believe the honest answer would be "No".
We know that the ERU and the Army Ranger Wing have undertaken joint scenario planning, strictly on a table-top basis. They have not put the planning into practice and practice is clearly the key. Both entities have showcased their operational capabilities to each other but only in a demonstrated form. No deployed live exercises have ever taken place involving the ERU and the Army Ranger Wing. Is that acceptable given the international climate and the attacks that have taken place in neighbouring countries close to us? Can we really leave ourselves in such a low state of preparedness?
The Defence Forces provide, on request, support to aid the civil power on an ongoing and contingent basis. An Garda Síochána can request a broad range of supports from the Defence Forces, including the services of explosive ordnance disposal teams and the Army Ranger Wing.
The Deputy spoke about transportation of military personnel. One of the reasons we have rotary helicopters is to be in a position to transfer Army personnel, if needed, to whatever part of the country. Deputy Chambers might be aware that when the White Paper on Defence was set out in 2015, we looked at the capabilities and threat assessment. The current threat assessment is moderate, that is, possible but not likely. Like the Deputy, I hope we never have to deal with such a scenario but we must be ready, willing and able to respond to any terrorist attack. There is ongoing communication between An Garda Síochána and the Defence Forces and they are partaking in table-top exercises. The Chief of Staff is in regular contact with the Garda Commissioner.
Deputy Chambers can ask a very quick supplementary question. There are fewer than 40 seconds left.
My point is that a table-top exercise is not sufficient. That is fine in the planning stages in terms of working together as a co-ordinated group but one needs to put that into practice. It is my understanding that a significant contributing factor that has prevented live exercises taking place is that there is a divergence in terms of the standard operating procedures, SOPs, and tactics, techniques and procedures, TTPs. Both entities operate under separate SOPs and TTPs. Should a complex terror attack occur, An Garda Síochána is first in line to respond. If military personnel have to assist, then command and control is key in the context of who is in charge and how it works. The only way one can iron out the bugs, for want of a better phrase, is by live practice, so one entity gets to know how the other operates and both get to know how to work together. That has not been done. It is good practice, even if the threat is considered low, to know how to work with the other group in the event that it is required. I urge the Minister of State to look seriously at the issue. He should speak to the officials in the Department and to Defence Forces management. He should also speak to his counterpart in the Department of Justice and Equality who is responsible for An Garda Síochána because it is important that such an approach is taken. It is quite bizarre that a live practice has never been carried out, not to mention on a monthly basis.
I am moving on to Ceist Uimh. 31. I am sorry but the time has run out on that question. I already warned that this would happen.
