Deputy Leyden has been given permission to raise on the Adjournment the allegation that the Taoiseach gave an interview on a local radio station.
Adjournment Debate. - Local Radio Station Interview.
I thank you, Sir, for having given me the opportunity of raising this matter on the Adjournment.
I am disappointed that the Taoiseach himself is not present to answer the allegations contained in an article in the Evening Herald of Wednesday, 23 January 1985 because it was the Taoiseach himself who was involved in this matter and not his Minister of State, Deputy Nealon. Nevertheless, I presume the Minister of State has been briefed by the Taoiseach in relation to this matter. As a matter of practice and principle when a matter on the Adjournment is addressed to the Taoiseach or to any Minister, the Taoiseach or that Minister should appear in the House and should not be allowed to run away from the situation by sending in a substitute.
I refer to an allegation by Liam Collins of the "Ad Lib" column of the Evening Herald of 23 January 1985 regarding an interview by the Taoiseach, Deputy Garret FitzGerald, on an illegal radio station, namely, Radio Dublin, and the interviewer was Mr. Pat Jennings. I understand that Mr. Jennings made himself known to the Taoiseach at the official opening of a cluster unit in Séan McDermott Street two weeks ago when he gave an exclusive radio interview to Mr. Jennings. I wish to know from the Taoiseach if he was aware that this interview was with a representative of an illegal radio station and, if so, does he approve of this recognition by him of this station. I understand that the relevant tape is in the possession of Radio Dublin and has not yet been broadcast but, of course, it could be broadcast at any time. I must say that I am concerned that the interviewer, Mr. Jennings, seemingly was approached, after the interview with the Taoiseach, by a representative of the Government Information Service asking, indeed instructing him not to broadcast the particular interview with the Taoiseach. I believe the statement was made to Mr. Jennings that if this interview was broadcast Radio Dublin would be closed down.
This difficulty for the Taoiseach or indeed for any other Minister or Deputy would not arise had the Government honoured their undertaking to provide the necessary legislation for independent local radio, as was promised on numerous occasions since they assumed office in 1982.
In June 1983 we in Fianna Fáil brought before this House our Independent Local Broadcasting Authority Bill which was defeated by the Coalition partners with a promise to bring legislation before the Dáil at the earliest possible opportunity. I want now to quote what the Minister of State, Deputy Nealon, at column 981 of the Official Report of 8 June, 1983, had to say at the time when he stated he would prepare a Bill and introduce it as quickly as possible, but as yet no such Bill has been brought before the House:
May I say, this Government recognise fully the urgency of introducing legislation to regulate the use of local radio and to bring order into what is, essentially, a near chaotic situation. In our Programme for Government, there is a commitment that community radio will be developed in an orderly manner.
The Minister himself said at that time that he had particular responsibility to bring forward this legislation and to examine all of its aspects. I understand there is serious conflict within the Coalition regarding the composition of the Independent Local Radio Authority and that the Labour Party are anxious to have majority control by the present public broadcasting authority, RTE. To my mind that would not provide an independent local radio service, which we could support and as we envisage it. The Minister for Communications, Deputy J. Mitchell, at columns 1429-30 of the Official Report of 14 June, 1983 stated in this House:
As further evidence of the Government's determination to provide for the orderly development of community radio services at the earliest possible date and pending the enactment of the necessary legislation, I will be setting up in the immediate future a Local Broadcasting Committee. This committee will consider submissions from various interested parties, especially youth organisations, on their concepts of local radio services and will make such plans of an administrative and technical nature as are feasible. I see these steps as facilitating the speediest possible introduction of legal local radio after the enactment of legislation.
Deputy Leyden, the matter you gave notice of intention to raise on the Adjournment does not afford an opportunity for a discussion on local broadcasting and all the rest of it. Presumably you are alleging that it was improper for the Taoiseach to give an interview on this particular station, and that is it; that is the issue.
The reason I am bringing the attention of the House to the whole chaotic situation at present in regard to local radio services is that it may be advanced as an excuse for the Taoiseach's involvement that the——
I do not suppose you are in the business of making excuses for the Taoiseach.
Not necessarily so. I shall finish by asking the Minister of State to indicate to the House when the chaos will end in the local radio situation. On a weekly basis now there are illegal stations being set up——
I will not allow the Deputy to develop that.
In such circumstances, the Taoiseach giving an interview to an illegal radio service is a reflection on the official public broadcasting service, RTE.
I might remind the Minister of State also that the Lord Mayor of Dublin is also involved in the giving of interviews to this illegal radio station but as he is not a member of this House I shall not elaborate further on that.
I view this development with concern and seek clarification from the Minister of State in relation to this interview. Will he indicate if he is aware that this interview was given willingly by the Taoiseach to Mr. Jennings of Radio Dublin, that the relevant tape is in the possession of Mr. Jennings and may be broadcast by that station at any time?
May I say I am amazed that Deputy Leyden should have any objection to my presence here instead of the Taoiseach as he proceeded to devote most of his contribution to areas that appertain to me and not to deal with the question on the Adjournment. Perhaps he himself was the wrong person to make his case on this occasion. In the ordinary course of events it is not unusual for a Minister to have a Minister of State reply on his behalf and the Taoiseach has perfect confidence that I will be able to give an adequate reply to the points raised by Deputy Leyden.
The Taoiseach attended and addressed a press conference organised by the Séan McDermott Street Youth Employment Group on Thursday last, 10 January 1985, at 10 o'clock. It was announced at that meeting that planning permission had been given for the development of an industrial cluster on a site in the Gardiner Street/Summerhill area. This is a very important development in which the Taoiseach himself had taken a personal interest over a period. The group invited the media along to the conference. It was not a question of the Government Information Service or anybody else inviting the media; the group invited the media. There were two television teams present, including one from RTE. The Taoiseach's address was taped and recorded in the usual manner and, as is usual or indeed common place nowadays, some of the print journalists present also used tape recorders instead of taking notes. At the conclusion of his address the Taoiseach was surrounded by the youth group and gave a special interview which was taped and recorded by the RTE television crew.
After that interview another journalist who was present approached the Taoiseach and, without identifying himself, began to tape questions and answers between himself and the Taoiseach. From the tenor of his questions it appeared that he was working for a radio rather than for print journalism, a newspaper or a magazine. Naturally the head of the GIS who was present did not like to interfere because he could have been from any of the many magazine programmes on RTE. As always happens with the Taoiseach the interview was going exceptionally well.
As soon as the brief interview concluded, the head of the GIS asked the journalist to identify himself. He was a freelance journalist, named by the Deputy correctly, who worked for a number of publications at home and abroad and also worked for an illegal radio station here. When he indicated that he proposed to use the interview for an illegal radio station — and he was working for an illegal radio station on that occasion — he was advised that, under no circumstances, should the interview be broadcast. Permission for its broadcast was being refused. He was informed of the stated Government policy that interviews by members of the Government for broadcast or report on illegal radio stations were not permitted.
The journalist said correctly that he was a member of the NUJ in defence of his entitlement to conduct the interview and, in the best traditions of the NUJ, to which I had the privilege of belonging for very many years, the journalist agreed that he had not initially declared his interest and, in deference to the request not to use the interview as obtained by him, he would not use it in his report that evening. This undertaking was fulfilled and the broadcast did not take place. I have sufficient confidence in that member of the NUJ to believe that, despite the fact that the tape still exists, it will not be broadcast. As the Taoiseach said during the week the local radio Bill is at an advanced stage and will be before the House early in this session.
I am delighted to see the conversion of Deputy Leyden against illegal radio stations. This is a very big change from the time he had a very high profile presence in a demonstration outside my office in favour of illegal radio stations. I am glad that conversion has taken place.
I never appeared on an illegal radio station. I never gave an interview on any illegal radio station.
I had the pleasure, if you wish to call it that, of looking out of my own window at a major demonstration when it was the popular thing to do to demonstrate in favour of illegal radio stations, blocking the whole street in front of my office. There in high profile, mixing with the disc jockeys and cutting as good a dash as any of the disc jockeys, was Deputy Leyden. I am glad he has now changed and is totally against interviews being given to illegal radio stations. Presumably he is also against illegal radio stations.
We will introduce this Bill and we will get it passed into law and get the whole thing regularised. Deputy Leyden's party introduced a Bill when they knew they were about to be defeated in the Dáil and the Bill would fall with them. Finally after years of dallying and allowing this monster of illegal stations to grow throughout the country they were spurred into action and a Bill was produced. Duly the Government went out of office. We have taken longer than I would have liked.
Two years.
We will have an excellent Bill, and the time spent on it will prove to have been very well worthwhile.
The Dáil adjourned at 5.15 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 29 January 1985.