Martin Kenny
Ceist:1. Deputy Martin Kenny asked the Minister for Justice if she will provide an update on the timelines for appointments of new members of the Judiciary; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [52628/22]
Ceisteanna ar Sonraíodh Uain Dóibh - Priority Questions
Judicial Appointments
I welcome the announcement in the budget that we are going to get more of a commitment to ensure that our judicial system, and particularly our courts system, get more resources. I ask the Minister to provide an update on the timelines for the appointment of new members of the Judiciary; and to provide a statement on the matter. Clearly, in many aspects of our Courts Service there are huge delays and backlogs, and a lot of this is down to not having enough staff, judicial staff in particular.
I thank the Deputy for raising the issue. It is a priority for my Department to ensure that the courts are resourced in order that we can administer justice efficiently and effectively for everybody who comes into contact with the justice system. Judicial vacancies arise for a number of reasons, including retirements, promotion and, unfortunately, deaths in service. The aim is always to fill such vacancies at the earliest opportunity and a number have been filled recently. There are also a number of vacancies that will be filled in the coming weeks. In order to bring more strategic focus to this, I established a judicial planning working group in April 2021, in line with commitments in the programme for Government and my own justice plan. The working group is going to look at the type and the number of judges that we have to ensure that there is efficient and effective administration across the system as it currently stands. We are also looking at how we can improve that over the next five years and build on that work. Future judicial resourcing needs will be informed by the report and the recommendations of this group. I hope to have a finalised report by the end of November, if not earlier, and possibly the beginning of November.
To help support the work of this group, the OECD was commissioned to prepare an independent review of judicial resources, including benchmarks against international comparators. This is the first time that we have undertaken such an analysis since we established our own courts. There was a bit of a delay due to the complexity of evaluating the data and analysis underpinning the research. It has taken longer than originally anticipated for the OECD to complete its work. The review is with my office. I am hoping to meet with the judicial planning working group in the coming weeks, when it will submit the final report to me. Our courts are under pressure not just due to Covid, although it has placed a significant pressure on them. Acknowledging that fact, as an interim measure we increased the number of judges in the High Court from 37 to 42 last year with the enactment of the Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2021. In addition, section 8 of the Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2021 provided for the number of High Court judges to be exceeded by a further one should the Government so agree. At my request, having consulted with the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, it was decided that would be necessary. Six additional High Court judges have been appointed, acknowledging the pressure that the courts are under. Most importantly, the report will set out a much bigger figure and a timeline on implementation.
I understand the situation in regard to the High Court judges, and there has been an improvement in respect of that. However, I think the key area in which we need to see improvement is in the Circuit Courts and District Courts, in particular. Indeed, the whole family law system is hugely backed up. Access to justice is a primary need and a primary right that citizens must have. At the end of the day, if we do not have enough judges to carry out the roles that are required, we are simply failing the public. That needs to be recognised. I appreciate that the Minister has referenced the two reports and has outlined pieces of work that have been done to look into this issue but, to be frank, I do not think we need reports to look into it. All we need to do is to talk to the people who are working in the courts and the judicial system. We all know, and we all hear it all the time, that the cause of a major part of the significant delays is the absence of judges and not having enough judges. Indeed, looking to the High Court and the higher courts that the Minister has spoken of, where additional capacity has been put in place, some of the judges are often pulled away. There are tribunals, inquiries and all of that and the judges end up sitting on those. We need a commitment from the Minister. How many new judges will be put in place by this time next year, and will it ensure that an adequate service is provided?
The fact of the matter is that we do not have enough judges, and we need more. That is clear. That is why I set up the review group. It is important that we understand how many we need and why we need them. For that reason, the people the Deputy mentioned, who know exactly what is going on in the courts, have been part of this process. It is not just the OECD report. In its final report that will be published in the coming weeks, the group will set out exactly how many judges are needed. Pre-empting that report, over €2 million was allocated in the budget this year to ensure that we can start putting the resources and people in place. While we can put judges in place, we need the support teams within the court structure to be able to support their work. That is already happening and the money has already been allocated. As well as that, to make sure that it is not just about judges and numbers, we have the implementation of the modernisation programme in the courts system. That has received funding over the last two years, to make sure that we are using online resource and to ensure that the judges can be as efficient and effective as possible. The Deputy mentioned the family courts specifically. We will be establishing a new family court structure in the coming weeks. I will be bringing forward a Bill as well as a family justice oversight group working plan that will go hand in hand with that. That will set out a completely different court structure, taking all these family law matters out of the Circuit Courts and giving it its own structure, its own template and its own specialised judges, which I think will be very welcome.
I appreciate all of that, but at the same time, we have to recognise that the shortage of judges is having an impact not just on the number of cases going through the courts, but on the full utilisation of the services we have. For instance, there are new court buildings that were established a number of years ago in Limerick. Most of the time, half of the courts there are not being used. Yet people are travelling to Dublin to access court services there. They are getting on the train, leaving Limerick and going to Dublin. Witnesses and victims of crime are having to do that when adequate facilities are in place in their own city to provide services. That situation is replicated in many areas around the country. I am told that a lot of that is because the judges do not want to travel from where they are based and because of the shortages. There are issues around that. I respect the Minister's commitment to address this issue, but we have not seen the value of it yet. We have not seen it delivered. We need to see that delivery and we need to see it very fast.
Six additional High Court judges were appointed last year, an additional €2 million was provided to prepare the work for the group that will be publishing the report in the coming weeks, and there is additional funding for the modernisation programme and a very clear commitment to establish a new family court to take that very difficult situation out of the current structure. That is my commitment. I am making it very clear that we do not have enough judges and we need more. The Deputy touched on a point in his response. We cannot just add judges when greater efficiencies could be found within the current structure as well. Part of the review, led by Brigid McManus, is looking not just at how many more judges we need but also at how we can have greater efficiencies within the system at the moment. It is looking not just at the work the judges do, including when they sit, how they sit and the hours they work, but also at how we can include the modernisation programme more to ensure that more people can be seen and more people can be seen at home, in prisons or in Garda stations. It is about making sure that the whole system is interlinked as well, including the Prison Service, the Garda, the courts service, our family law structures and the various different agencies and organisations that work within the judicial system.
Many strands of work are coming together and all of that will lead to a more efficient and effective system. We need more judges, I am committed to providing them and we will have a report in the coming weeks setting out the numbers involved.
An Garda Síochána
Catherine Murphy
Ceist:2. Deputy Catherine Murphy asked the Minister for Justice the steps she will take to ensure that the recruitment of new gardaí and civilian staff following the budget 2023 allocation to her Department will meet the announced target; if she has engaged with Garda management in respect of the new recruitment campaign; and the date on which it will commence. [52296/22]
This question relates to Garda recruitment and the announced targets, for which funding has been provided. What is the Minister's role in ensuring that those targets are met? Does she engage with the Garda Commissioner about recruitment campaigns? Is she satisfied with a situation where targets are not met? What engagement is there to ensure that targets are met?
I thank the Deputy. It is an important question. We all want to see more gardaí on our streets and dealing with different issues. That commitment is there. The budget this year was unprecedented, with €2.14 billion being allocated to the Garda. This will fund up to 1,000 new recruits next year and 400 additional Garda staff. In the year just gone, funding was allocated for 800 Garda staff. We will not be able to reach that full target because there have been some challenges in respect of Covid-19 at the Garda College in Templemore. We were simply not able to get the numbers into the training college at the beginning of the year. I am confident that on the basis of the new recruitment campaign, which saw 11,000 people put themselves forward to become members of the Garda, the first round of recruits will go into Templemore on 28 November 2022. That will allow us to get into a system whereby every 11 or 12 weeks, there will be 200 recruits in Templemore. That will allow us to reach the target of 1,000, as well as the 400 Garda staff positions that have been funded for next year.
There were challenges around Covid-19 this year. When we came to the end of the previous recruitment campaign, a number of people had gone into different careers. A number of people had decided to change path during the pandemic. Some people were unable to pass the fitness test. That problem is arising. Many of us might remember having to do the bleep test and other fitness tests in physical education class in school. It is important that members of the Garda have a certain level of fitness. There are challenges arising and we need to ensure we are on top of them. I meet with the Garda Commissioner about this matter quite regularly. I probably speak to him every couple of weeks, if not every week, specifically about the recruitment campaign and how things are going with the Public Appointments Service, which is an important part of the process. The service must conduct the interviews and put the numbers forward before the students go into the college. It is a lengthier process than we would like but I am confident, given that we now have a date of 28 November for the first of the new recruits from the 11,000 who applied for this campaign, that we will start a system that will see rolling numbers passing through Templemore and that we will not be interrupted by Covid-19 and the other challenges we have faced in the past year.
It is important that we increase the strength of the force but deployment once that happens is another matter. We are always told that is exclusively the responsibility of the Garda Commissioner. Fairness is required in that regard. Population is not the only metric that should be used but the Minister's constituency and my constituency, for example, are counties. Meath and Kildare are complete outliers. The more the population grows, the more services are stretched. A far from fair allocation is provided. That has been confirmed by previous Garda Commissioners who told me there was an understanding that this was the case. The only thing that will remedy that unfairness is disproportionately deploying new members of the Garda to understrength areas. What engagement does the Minister have with the Garda Commissioner to ensure fair deployment? I understand that the Commissioner has to run the operational side. However, there must be some degree of fairness. There is no evidence that the population shifts reflected in the two most recent censuses have been considered. Does the Minister engage with the Commissioner on that issue?
The simple answer is "Yes", without straying into areas that are not my responsibility because it is very much the role of the Garda Commissioner to look at where there are challenges, issues and significant population increases. Population is not the only factor but, as the Deputy said, it must be taken into account. We have only properly seen the figures for the most recent census in the past few weeks. I have no doubt but that those figures will be reflected in how the new recruits entering Templemore in November and the 1,000 gardaí and civilian staff we hope to have next year will be spread across the country. Every county feels it is under-resourced. It is clear to see, on the basis of population and the numbers, where there needs to be a boost and those issues need to be addressed. It is very much a matter for the Garda Commissioner.
It is important that we have that number of recruits coming out. Some 11,000 people, including, I am pleased to say, many more women and many people from diverse backgrounds, applied in January this year. We are going to open a new recruitment campaign in the second quarter of next year to ensure we have a steady flow of people. Deputy Kenny is going to raise this issue shortly, but some people are retiring and others are leaving the force. We need to consider many different issues. We need a steady flow and stream. That will ensure that the counties the Deputy has mentioned, our own included, among others, will start to see that significant increase.
It must be a huge embarrassment that the Minister's own county of Meath has slightly less than half the national average of the ratio of gardaí to population. That has an impact on the type of policing and the level of detection. The result is a reactive type of policing, as opposed to proactive policing that includes an adequate number of community gardaí. There is a need for them to engage with new communities. Visibility is another factor. It must be an embarrassment that the worst ratio of gardaí to population is in her area when she is the Minister for Justice. This has not only arisen recently but has been happening for a period of time. Many Ministers for Justice have overseen this unfair distribution of resources.
I am proud of the work the Garda does in County Meath. I regularly meet with teams and while I want to see more gardaí on the beat and in community policing in the county, it is important that there is a separation between me and the Commissioner, who decides where gardaí go. My role is to ensure that as many potential gardaí as possible enter Templemore and that the funding and resources are there. I must ensure the Garda has the necessary equipment, including cars, technology and the buildings it needs, to provide the fantastic service it does. I want to see more gardaí in Meath and right across the country. I am committed to that not only through the funding we are providing this year but also through the constant engagement I have with the Commissioner. I must understand his needs and the needs of the Garda in general. Whether legislation, resources or anything else is required to help the Garda do its job more efficiently and effectively, I must ensure it is put in place. I refer again to the unprecedented budget that has been provided this year, building on last year and the year before. That will continue to increase. I have no doubt, given the census figures we have seen in recent weeks, that as the numbers of new members come out of Templemore in the next few months and next year, we will start to see an increase of gardaí in many counties.
An Garda Síochána
Martin Kenny
Ceist:3. Deputy Martin Kenny asked the Minister for Justice if her attention has been drawn to the difficulties in recruitment and retention in An Garda Síochána; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [52718/22]
The Minister referred to the difficulties in respect of recruitment for the Garda in her response to the previous question. That needs to be addressed. The increase in our population, according to the most recent census, tells us the numbers of gardaí and the civilian capacity of the Garda need to be increased. Many gardaí on the ground are telling me that many people are leaving and going off to other jobs. It is difficult to retain people. I recently met the Commissioner who confirmed that. It is a difficult situation. In many cases, gardaí are recruited but only remain in the force for a short period before going off to other positions.
I thank the Deputy. The role played by members of An Garda Síochána is undoubtedly a challenging and sometimes dangerous one, as I have stressed many times this year. Gardaí leave their homes, families and communities every morning to put themselves in danger. We must acknowledge that. They often encounter adversarial circumstances in their day-to-day work, which can be dispiriting and difficult.
Our communities are well supported by the Garda, which they appreciate. It is important to stress that while there are challenges, the Garda is held in high regard and has the support of all members of the community. That is particularly clear this year, as we mark 100 years of An Garda Síochána. The centenary has given me the opportunity to engage with and meet many different people throughout the country.
I have been struck by the huge amount of pride that there is not just among present members but among past members and indeed in our community about the achievements of An Garda Síochána. It has given us a chance to reflect on the challenges of the last 100 years but also to look at where we are going and how we can address some of the issues that the Deputy has outlined and the challenges that the gardaí themselves face.
There are a number of initiatives that we have put in place which might seem like small things but are important in the grand scheme of things. We put in place a new Garda uniform this year because it is important that the gardaí are comfortable when they are going about and doing their work and are not working in uniforms that are outdated. We have had the expansion of the mobility devices for the frontline. This is to make sure that when gardaí are doing their work they do not have to go back to the station for every single thing they have to input into the system, which makes it more efficient and effective for them. We have a Garda well-being app which is being developed. I meet with the various different representative groups and this is something that continually comes up, whether it is the Garda Representative Association, GRA, or the chiefs and supers making sure there is that support and mental health support for individuals, together with better internal communications and more transparent promotion processes. All these things help to create a better work environment. Of course, it is extremely important to make sure we have more gardaí to take the pressure off those who are under huge pressure at the moment, as is making sure they have the resources such as cars and appropriate Garda stations. There is much work ongoing. I am not saying that it is not a difficult environment to work in, but we need to keep doing what we can to support them.
I met with the Garda Commissioner recently and, of the number of issues he outlined to me, one was that we have two economies in this country. We have an international economy whereby people are in very high paid positions in the various technological companies. Many of the gardaí being recruited have skills and we need those skills to deal with cybercrime and all these areas. They get trained in An Garda Síochána and then they go off to work for some of these multinational corporations on a higher salary. That is one of the problems that needs to be to be dealt with. I am not sure how it can be dealt with, but it is one of the real issues that needs to be looked at.
The Minister also mentioned the difficult work environment and the often aggressive attitude that many gardaí have to face and of course we recognise that. We also have a difficulty whereby many members of An Garda Síochána are stationed very far away from their home base and, when they look to return closer to home for family reasons, or to be nearer to family or to the places where they grew up, they find it difficult to do that. That is a harsh regime that is in place. I could probably count 50 gardaí who have contacted me in recent months who are stationed far away from where they live or from where their family come from and they want to get transferred back closer to there. That is a real issue that is having a detrimental effect and it means that they will decide to leave the force if they cannot get transfers.
The Deputy touched on a number of issues. Our gardaí are highly skilled and they are sought in many different fields, as the Deputy said. As we move to a situation where we have specific teams and units, such as in the Garda National Immigration Bureau, GNIB, fraud or domestic violence, they become more skilled and expert in their area and it is only natural that people will try to take them from us. The numbers of people who have not just retired but who have moved away have been somewhat steady. To compare last year's figures to those in 2018, it was an increase of approximately nine. We did, therefore, see a slight increase in people leaving post Covid-19. This is natural because there were many changes and pressures on An Garda Síochána.
Again, this comes back to making sure that we put the right structures, the right resources and the right environment in place. It is a matter of making sure that they are part of the most recent pay deal, which I am pleased that they were so they can also see an increase in their pay for the work that they are doing. It is again a matter of supporting them and I mentioned some of the resources earlier, such as body-worn cameras and making sure that we are keeping them safe when they go about what is a very dangerous job.
When it comes to stations, I have been in Templemore recently. Thankfully, I had a chance this year - I did not have it previously because of Covid-19 - to meet the new recruits. They do send new recruits to stations outside of their own hometown so that they are not starting off in their own hometown. Sometimes, it might take bit longer to get back home but obviously there are options available to gardaí to seek to transfer. It does depend on who is needed where and what is happening in the station. Obviously, it is a role for An Garda Síochána to determine that, and not for me.
I appreciate that. In the new work environment that has been evolving since Covid-19, more and more people are looking for flexible work arrangements. When everyone else in society is getting flexible work arrangements and when gardaí have very rigid ones, it poses a difficulty and a problem.
In respect of that, I want to raise the point that retention and recruitment is also about having enough gardaí in place to be able to serve the public. We see issues here in the city of Dublin, as we have seen in the recent “Prime Time” report on O'Connell Street and that is mirrored in many areas around the country where we have serious problems. These are simply down to not having enough gardaí on the beat, walking the streets and being there, with community gardaí to look after people, making sure that they are visible and that they have a place in the community. Really, it is down to numbers. I hope that as we move forward when we talk about new and flexible work arrangements there can also be new and flexible training and recruitment arrangements so that we could increase the numbers that we can bring through Templemore and that we could bring more than the 800 per year that is presently in place. That is something that needs to be looked at seriously. We need to look at ensuring that we can have an adequate Garda service in place as we have a growing population.
The intention is that we will have 1,000 next year. Beyond that, we have to look at the capacity within Templemore, but if we were to have 1,000 with 400 civilian staff on a continuous basis, that would bolster the overall number. I am clear that I do not think 15,000 is enough because the population is growing and we need more.
Specifically in relation to the programme the other night, Operation Citizen was launched in response to challenges in our city centre. I think other parts of the country have replicated that in various different districts and divisions. It means 20 gardaí on the beat every day patrolling the city centre and 24 gardaí in 12 different cars. We have police on horseback. We have additional hours at the weekend. We have specific areas that are being targeted. We have over 500 additional hours on top of the work that the gardaí are doing in general. There has been a concerted effort where issues have arisen to increase the number of gardaí to make sure that there are more gardaí on the ground and visible. I appreciate that there are still issues, which are not just about the gardaí. It is about the wider picture and the investment that is needed more generally, but the objective is more garda numbers. The funding is there and the commitment is there by me, by the Garda Commissioner and by everybody involved. It will just take time to see those numbers increasing.