Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 26 Apr 2023

Vol. 1037 No. 2

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

More evidence emerges every day of the consequences of the housing emergency happening on the Government’s watch. Earlier this week, Galway Chamber warned how businesses are struggling to keep their doors open while their staff have nowhere to live. Today, a survey of businesses from Dublin Chamber found that a lack of affordable housing is the biggest struggle those businesses face.

The housing crisis is hitting people from all sides. Rising mortgage rates are putting huge pressure on people’s finances as they struggle to keep on top of hike after hike. As the Taoiseach is aware, last month the European Central Bank increased its main lending rate for the sixth time since July last year, with the prospect of more increases coming down the tracks. These hikes mean taking a hit of thousands of euro a year for many, with some now paying interest rates as high as 8%. These are colossal sums of money and totally unaffordable for people on ordinary incomes. This barrage of mortgage interest hikes comes in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis, with people already to the pin of their collar as they struggle to keep on top of bills. The Taoiseach need not just take my word for it. Free Legal Advice Centres has warned that people are at risk of falling into arrears, while the Money Advice & Budgeting Service has warned that these hikes are having disastrous effects. Hike after hike has left mortgage holders at their wits’ end. They are anxious that they will not be able to make their finances stretch.

People are left struggling with crippling rents and rising house prices due to the Government's failure to deliver affordable housing. People need help and they need it now, yet the Government sits on its hands. There is ample room within the public finances to help. This is about choices and the Government has a choice facing it now. Last night, the Dáil debated Sinn Féin’s proposal to provide relief to homeowners hit by rising interest rates. I emphasise that these are tailored, targeted and time-limited supports that will be a life raft for people who need them. Our proposals would support struggling mortgage holders by up to €1,500. They are sensible and necessary measures. The Dáil will vote on Sinn Féin’s proposals this evening, so it is decision time. The Government can and must act with urgency. In opposition, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael McGrath, was fully committed to mortgage interest relief and that is what he must deliver now in government. Ní mór don Rialtas gníomhú anois lena chinntiú go bhfaigheann úinéirí tí faoiseamh ríthábhachtach ó mhéaduithe úis ar mhorgáistí. Tá moltaí saindeartha, teoranta ó thaobh ama, leagtha amach ag Sinn Féin. Anocht, ag tacú lenár moltaí, is féidir linn tacaíocht a thabhairt d’úinéirí tí a airíonn go bhfuil siad sáinnithe agus iad ag streachailt le greim a choinneáil faoin bhfiacail.

Every mortgage interest rate hike is a body blow for struggling households. Every hike is a shock that is becoming harder and harder to absorb. My question is straightforward. Will the Taoiseach back Sinn Féin’s proposal for a time-limited mortgage relief and give homeowners the break they so desperately need?

The Taoiseach

I thank the Deputy for her question. I start by acknowledging the presence of a large number of third year students from CBS Portlaoise who are in the Visitors Gallery. They are most welcome.

The Deputy mentioned evidence relating to the housing crisis in her introductory remarks. There is real evidence today of the kind of progress we are now making when it comes to housing, released by the Central Statistics Office, CSO, in the past couple of hours. We know the number of new homes built in the first quarter of the year is up nearly 20% on the first quarter of last year, with 6,760 new homes built in the first three months of this year alone. A 20% increase in new homes being built this quarter compared with last quarter is something that even somebody as mean-spirited as the Deputy should be able to acknowledge and I hope she will do so in her follow-up remarks.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

The Taoiseach should not make personal remarks like that.

The Taoiseach

She can also acknowledge that there has been a 40% increase in the number of apartments built in the first quarter of this year compared with last year. She may wish to acknowledge as well that the number of new apartments built is double what it was three years ago and five times what it was five years ago. At regional level, it is the south-west region, covering counties Cork and Kerry, that has seen the biggest increase.

With regard to mortgages, I understand that many people are seeing big increases in their mortgage payments, particularly people who have tracker mortgages.

They are receiving letters in the post, every couple of weeks at this stage, from the bank, telling them that their mortgage has gone up. Somebody with a mortgage of maybe €250,000 has seen an increase of about €500 a month in their mortgage payment. That is a lot of money, even for somebody on a good income, so I absolutely understand the impact that is having on a lot of households. But tax measures are a matter for the budget, and when it comes to the budget we will consider all the different suggestions and ideas for tax concessions, and there will be a tax package in the budget but it will not be possible to include everything in it. It is noteworthy that in Sinn Féin's alternative budget produced by Deputy Doherty, only back in September, mortgage interest relief was not included, even though mortgage interest rates were going up at the time and the ECB signalled that there would be significant further rises. When Sinn Féin had to make choices, it chose not to include mortgage interest relief in its package. When it comes to September-October, when we have a budget to put together, there will be a tax package and we will consider mortgage interest relief as part of that tax package, but we have to consider all the other proposals that come forward for tax relief too.

We also do need to bear in mind the context. Average mortgage rates in Ireland, which had been high by European standards, are now at the lower level, by European standards. We also need to bear in mind that we have had a very prolonged period of low interest rates, almost unprecedented in history. Deputy McDonald says the measures Sinn Féin proposes are time bound, but she does not say when the end point is, because she cannot predict that mortgage interest rates are going to go down again. We had a lot of people for a very long period of time who had the benefit of very low interest rates. Now interest rates are coming back up to something quite close to the historical average and we need to be honest with people about that and not say that things are just time bound. We cannot guarantee people that interest rates are going to go back down to 1% or 0% again. That might not happen.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Could I also extend a welcome to the lads from Portlaoise. Fáilte. It is great to see them here.

I am glad that the Taoiseach recognises that there has been a succession of hikes in mortgage interest rates. Some people are paying a rate of 8% and there are further hikes in prospect. I am sure the Taoiseach does not contest that. The ECB will meet on Thursday week. For mortgage holders who are now struggling, it is a matter of great fear and anxiety that they are going to see yet another hike. The question then arises of what to do about it. If I heard the Taoiseach correctly, his position is that mortgage holders are simply to sit tight until September or October. I put it to the Taoiseach that that is a wholly unrealistic ask of households in the grip of a cost-of-living crisis where we have the highest electricity costs across Europe. I am sure the Taoiseach knows and would acknowledge that people are struggling, so simply to say to them to sit tight and hold tight is not an acceptable response from the Government. I have asked the Taoiseach to support our proposal, which will go to a vote this evening. If he is not going to support our proposal, what is he going to do now-----

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy's time is up.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

-----for the tens of thousands of households that are struggling to pay their mortgage?

An Ceann Comhairle

The time is up.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

According to FLAC and to MABS, they now run the risk of arrears-----

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank Deputy McDonald.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

-----and real hardship. What is the Taoiseach's answer if he does not like ours?

The Taoiseach

My answer is twofold. In the last budget, which only kicked in in January, there was a tax package that I fought hard for. That tax package resulted in income tax being reduced for 2 million people, including the vast majority of mortgage holders in the State and Deputy McDonald's party voted against that. It is a simple fact that workers in Ireland would pay more income tax under Sinn Féin, and that people would take home less pay under Pearse than they do under Paschal.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Actually it is Michael now.

The Taoiseach

Sinn Féin voted against that. People today would pay more income tax under Sinn Féin than they do under the current coalition. When it comes to the next budget, there will be a tax package.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

In the autumn.

The Taoiseach

It will be as generous as we can afford, but we will have to take into account all of the other suggestions that are put forward for tax concessions. It does not make sense, and it would not be prudent or responsible, for us to come into this House every month or every other month and make income tax changes. That is not the way to run a country. I hope if Deputy McDonald ever has the privilege to be Taoiseach that she does not run the country like that.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Nash.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

The Government is just after changing tax last week.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Doherty should allow Deputy Nash to speak.

Deputy Ged Nash

The CSO consumer price index for March was published just under two weeks ago. Prices grew by 7.7%. It was the 18th straight month when the increase was at least 5% or more. We keep hearing that inflation should now start to moderate as rampant energy prices start to stabilise and subside. What is really hitting people where it hurts is soaring prices for basic essentials at the checkout. Over the past year alone, food prices rose by over 13%. Milk is up nearly 25%, butter is up 21%, eggs are up 20%, and I could go on. As the Taoiseach knows, these are the basic essentials on which everybody relies - the basic kitchen cupboard staples. Lower and modest income families are at the very sharpest end of the naked price gouging that is now going on.

The European Central Bank, which is hardly an anti-poverty NGO, has finally admitted that rising profits by big businesses, which are keeping prices high and wages low, account for half of all inflation pressure. This is extraordinary. It is happening with absolute impunity. CSO data published yesterday show that Irish companies are reporting record-breaking profits for 2022. Profits are a good thing. They are a healthy thing in a dynamic economy, but super-normal profits are not. Yesterday, the Government announced a €1 billion plan to help property developers build more homes, but what are those struggling with soaring food bills meant to do? The crazy prices that people are seeing for basic goods in the shops are out of all proportion to the extra costs that producers have been facing, costs that are in fact now going down substantially. We see supermarket chains using once-off offers and loyalty schemes to harvest their data in exchange for cheaper product. If you spend €50 you get a tenner off. If you use a clubcard, you get cheaper food. But when you add it all up, they are doing us anyway. What we are not seeing is transparency in pricing or any common decency. Exceptional times demand exceptional measures to protect the living standards of working people.

We did not need the OECD to tell us that for the first time since 2013 the living standards of Irish people are falling. Prices are rising faster than incomes. Simply put, people have less to spend on everyday essentials. Far too many corporations, like the big supermarket chains, are involved in reaping hypernormal profits at a time when families are struggling. I hope the Taoiseach will agree with me when I say that it is wrong. It is immoral. Unfortunately, there has been ambivalence and total silence from the Government on this. If we ask anyone what they are struggling with they tell us it is the cost of heating, renting and the soaring cost of groceries. Last week I called for the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, CCPC, to investigate potential price gouging in the food market and for the authorities to examine how profit taking is contributing to the inflation problem. The Government has tools in its armoury to help address rising costs for households. What will the Taoiseach and his Government colleagues do to protect people, and will he ask the CCPC to carry out a review of competition and high prices in the Irish grocery market? Will he at the very least empower the commission to undertake a review of basic grocery prices to establish if price controls are in fact required?

The Taoiseach

First, I acknowledge the fact that prices are rising and rising rapidly in Ireland. For the first time in a long time we are seeing prices rise faster than incomes, but we think that will not be the case this year. Inflation will show down this year and we do expect to see not just nominal wage growth but real wage growth this year. To give one small example, the minimum wage increased by just over 7% in January. We expect inflation will be around 5% this year, so that is an increase in real terms. It would not have been the case last year but it will be this year. I think we will see that across the economy; as inflation moderates we will be back to real income growth again this year, which was the norm for almost every year in the past ten years, but not last year because of the impact of the global inflation crisis.

We have corresponded with the CCPC. I did so as Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment a few months ago, specifically on prices at the pumps and also prices in the supermarkets. It has powers in that regard. When it comes to price controls, we would be reluctant to do that. Legislation does exist that allows price controls to be imposed in certain circumstances by the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, but we do not have a good experience with price controls in this country, and around the world. We can control retail prices, but we cannot control wholesale prices, so we might be able to tell the small shop owner or the medium sized shop owner what they can sell groceries for, but we cannot control the price at which they buy them from the wholesaler.

The same applies to the price at the petrol pump. You can control the price at the petrol pump, but not the price at which the garage has to buy the petrol and diesel. That is why there is long-standing experience, both in our history as a country and in examples around the world, of supply problems, shortages and rationing where price controls have been imposed. We do not want to go down that road.

Deputy Ged Nash

We know that the living standards of our people are being eroded. People who are at the front end of this and who are most acutely affected are those on low and modest incomes. We know that the national minimum wage did not increase sufficiently in order to allow people's living standards to at least stabilise. We required a much higher increase to the national minimum wage to protect those who work very hard and get up early in the morning but who simply do not make enough to exist. Things are simply getting worse for them.

For far too many families, the dread of the weekly trip to the checkout is now akin to the dread people experience visiting the dentist. They simply do not know what it is going to cost and cannot budget for it. The Taoiseach is right that there are two sections of the Consumer Protection Act 2007 that provide the Government with the ability to address pricing issues and introduce, for example, temporary price orders to set maximum prices. These are sections 61 and 62. If it is the case that the Government does not want to act in this regard, it could do what the Greek Government did, that is, organise a summit with supermarkets. The Government could bring all the big supermarkets together to address these issues. The Government of Greece worked with supermarkets in that country to ensure the setting of price controls in respect of 51 staples. The Government here has the power to do this. Will the Taoiseach commission the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission to carry out an examination of the market to identify why prices in Ireland are so high and what action can be taken?

The Taoiseach

We have a retail forum through which the Government engages with retailers. It is very much on the agenda of the forum to ensure that prices will not increase too much or by more than is justified, given the input costs.

The Deputy is not entirely correct in what he said about the national minimum wage. Since the national minimum wage was established, it has gone up by more than the cost of living. It has not gone up in line with wages; it has gone up not only in line with the rate of inflation but by well above it. That may not be true for every one of the past 20 years but it is broadly true and will be true this year, which will see an increase of roughly 7% or 7.5%. The inflation rate is expected to be about 5%. Over the course of 20 years, the minimum wage has not only kept up with inflation but has gone ahead of it. While there have been a few years in which there have been exceptions in this regard, what the Deputy said is not generally true. His narrative is incorrect.

The other area we need to consider is tax. Regarding household income, it is a matter of how much you earn, how much you get to keep after tax and how far it goes. The Deputy will have seen the OECD report on taxing wages, which he quoted in his press release yesterday. The report shows that Ireland taxes the average single person at a rate that is about average but that our rate is higher than in Australia, New Zealand, Britain, the USA and Canada. That is why I hope the Deputy will end his opposition to income tax cuts.

Deputy Peter Fitzpatrick

Last week, I highlighted an issue that is making teaching highly unattractive and directly impacting on the supply crisis in the education sector, namely, the lack of full-time contracts being offered to new teachers. The Taoiseach replied that we have more teachers in Ireland than ever before, that the pupil-teacher ratio is lower than in the past, that we have a pay deal with teachers and that we are in a period of full employment in the private and public sectors. However, that was not my point. The issue is that only 13% of teachers receive permanent full-time contracts on initial appointment and that only 31% of teachers recruited since 2011 got full hours in their first year of teaching. This was made more evident to me this week. Numerous teachers across all levels of the education sector have reached out to me to highlight the difficulties they face owing to their not receiving full-time contracts. They are employed, but in the absence of full-time contracts they have no creditworthiness to obtain mortgages. After incurring the hardship and financial burden associated with merely obtaining an education, the young people of Ireland are emigrating. Floods of teachers are leaving for other shores, and some for other jobs altogether, because they simply cannot obtain mortgage approval or survive financially on part-time contracts. No wonder they choose to leave. We are crying out for teachers, but, as a direct result of contract issues, teachers have no option but to emigrate.

The Minister for Education, Deputy Foley, has confirmed that a pilot scheme, to be rolled out from September, will allow two schools to work together to recruit teachers. Secondary schools have to share teachers due to the critical shortage. The Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, Deputy Harris, recently conceded that the employment controls are in need of reform and spoke of starting the journey towards reducing student-staff ratios and improving Ireland’s position in global rankings. Student-staff ratios are at about 20:1 or more in Irish universities by comparison with an international average of about 14:1 or 15:1. While the ratios have improved in primary schools, they are still below par by comparison with elsewhere in Europe. Ireland is in the bottom third in Europe.

The Government needs to act. If nothing is done, we will lose our emerging talent to countries overseas that offer significant incentives in contracts and a better standard of living overall. We need proper action so that we have some chance of retaining our talent. I want the Taoiseach to consider the lived experience of teachers on part-time contracts. I also want him to consider providing the relevant funding and put in place the relevant actions to ensure newly qualified teachers are offered full-time jobs with full-time hours and full-time salaries.

Teachers in my constituency, which comprises Louth and part of east Meath, and elsewhere throughout Ireland deserve better. Will the Taoiseach please invest in our teachers and education system? This is a requirement for child development and teachers’ livelihoods, and for some it is a requirement for their financial and housing commitments. We have a problem, and the Government can solve it.

The Taoiseach

I thank Deputy Fitzpatrick for raising this important issue. I acknowledge, on behalf of the Government, that we have a very genuine teacher recruitment and retention challenge. I also acknowledge that this is not unique. We are in a period of full employment. There is no sector of the economy in which we do not have labour shortages. Whether it is well-paid jobs or poorly paid jobs, the public and private sectors are affected. When there is full employment, it is hard to recruit and retain staff. As the Deputy mentioned, the trend is certainly not unique to Ireland. The reason Irish teachers and professionals go abroad is that the countries they go to do not have enough professionals either. We see shortages all over the world. Countries such as Australia and the United Arab Emirates - you name it - are short of teachers too.

It is important to put this matter in a factual context. We have 72,000 full-time equivalent teachers in Ireland. Five years ago, we had 64,000. Therefore, in the past five years we have increased the number of teachers by 8,000. If there is an impression that there are fewer teachers than there used to be or more leaving than coming, it is false. We have gone from 64,000 teachers five years ago to 72,000. That is a big increase in the number employed. We are having genuine success in recruiting and retaining teachers, notwithstanding the challenge that arises and that the Deputy just mentioned.

As of October, the starting salary for teachers stands at €41,000 per year. Across the Border in County Down, not far from where the Deputy lives, the starting salary for a teacher is €27,000 per year. The cost of living in Northern Ireland is lower but it is not that much lower. This gives an idea of what we are doing to make the profession attractive.

On contracts, I am told recruitment and the appointment of teachers are a matter for each school or education and training board, as an employer. Teachers can be recruited on a permanent basis once a school or education and training board is within its authorised allocation of teaching posts and the criteria outlined in the Department circulars on filling posts are complied with.

We have a public sector pay deal. It was agreed not that long ago and voted on by public servants, including teachers. They voted for it by a very large margin. That agreement will come to an end in October. I have no doubt that, come summer, we will want to engage with the public service unions again on the next pay deal. We will certainly be very willing to listen to their suggestions on what we can do in the context of the overall package that will be available.

Deputy Peter Fitzpatrick

The Taoiseach basically gave me the same answer I got last week. I have asked a simple question. I come from Dundalk, County Louth, and have spoken to many teachers in recent weeks. I received numerous phone calls from people across the country last week in respect of this matter. People are going to college and paying massive amounts of money to be educated to become teachers. They want to teach in their own country but the number of full-time jobs up for grabs at the moment is practically zero. Only 13% of teachers are offered full-time jobs after they qualify. It can take two to six years to get a full-time job. In these years, teachers will be settling down and starting families. In the two or three months when they are off on their holidays, they do not get paid. They are looking for mortgages. I ask the Government please to help them out.

Many of these qualified teachers are going to other jobs. We see emigration at the moment, and we see the housing situation. At the Fine Gael Ard-Fheis last November, the Taoiseach promised to look after young people by helping them to get their own homes. These young people have put their hands in their pockets and are looking for jobs. It is a very simple situation. During the pandemic, they were offered full-time jobs but now it has gone back to the way it was previously. The Taoiseach and the Minister for Education can help these young teachers with their contracts.

The Taoiseach

I hear what the Deputy is saying about housing. It bothers me deeply that so many young and even not so young people find it so difficult to buy their first home. What gives me great encouragement is that we are now seeing about 400 first-time buyers per week, a really encouraging figure that is the highest since the Celtic tiger period. Because couples are counted as one person and because it does not include those building their own home, that figure is an underestimate. The number of first-time buyers every week is probably way more than 400 but I am using that figure to be on the safe side. A big catch-up is ahead of us but we are catching up and that is extremely encouraging.

We are not doing all that badly when it comes to teachers. There are 72,000 teachers in the country up from only 64,000 in 2017 so the numbers are going in the right direction. The starting salary is €41,000, which is much higher than it is in other countries. It certainly compares favourably to most other European countries. It is hard to compete with mineral-rich and oil-rich countries but that is the reality. We will have an engagement with the teachers' unions and the public service unions and are keen to speak to them in the summer and hear their ideas about what we can do as part of the new pay deal, which will succeed the current one come October.

Deputy Marian Harkin

Once again, I raise the issue of the lack of delivery of balanced regional development, specifically in the northern and western region. Once again, I use the statistics compiled by the European Commission and the analysis of those statistics by the Northern and Western Regional Assembly, which does sterling work not just in analysing the problem but in proposing solutions.

The assembly has produced two reports this year - the first on regional GDP data and the latest using EUROSTAT statistics relating to 2021 - so we are right up to date. Unfortunately, the figures are stark and deeply disappointing. For the Border region in particular, they show a region in freefall when you look at GDP per capita figures. The Border region's GDP per capita has dropped to 52% of the EU 27 average, the lowest since records began. Think about that. Compared to all other EU regions, the Border region stands at 52% of the EU average. Its GDP has fallen off a cliff. Generally I am not given to hyperbole but this is disastrous.

If you look at the entire northern and western region, you can see that its GDP is at 83% of the EU average. It is not even making the average of all EU regions. In 2006, 17 years ago, the Border region was close to the EU average at 98% but it has been steadily declining since and has hit the new low of 52%. This is just not acceptable. In fact, it is a disgrace. It shows that balanced regional development is just a phrase that is trotted out. It is not a policy that is at the heart of Government. It is an extra tacked on when announcements are made. Unless and until balanced regional development has a Minister who is responsible for it, it is a systemic policy objective of this Government that is supported by specific commitments that are revisited and reinforced on a three-monthly basis and there is positive discrimination to address the ever-widening economic gap, we will end up with jaw-dropping figures like this.

The second report refers to the competitiveness of the region. Again, it is based on the European Commission's 2022 regional economic index. Again, we find that the northern and western region is ranked 113th out of the 234 EU regions. This is 89 places behind the eastern and midlands region. If the Taoiseach does not address this yawning economic gap, it will be poor for the entire country because strong regions contribute to strong national economic development.

The Taoiseach

I again thank Deputy Harkin for raising this important issue. I do not dispute the numbers quoted by the Deputy and I agree with her that strong regions benefit the entire country. However, as I often say and as is often said to me, GDP is not everything. GDP must come with a very big health warning. The presence of Apple alone throws the numbers for GDP in the south-west region while the presence of Microsoft alone throws the numbers dramatically for the eastern region. When I talk to people as I am sure is the case with the Deputy, they never ask me about GDP or what the GDP per capita is. They ask me about jobs and incomes. When it comes to jobs in the Border region since this Government was elected, there are 17,600 more people at work. This is significant. In the Border region, including Sligo and Leitrim, which is represented by the Deputy, and Donegal, nearly 20,000 more people are at work than was the case when this Government came into office in 2020. Since then, we have seen incomes rise.

Every Minister in the Government is responsible for regional development. Obviously the lead is taken by the Minister for Rural and Community Development but the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment is also responsible for it along with the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, me as Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance. We are prioritising job growth in every part of Ireland. More than half of jobs now created through IDA Ireland are outside Dublin, two thirds of jobs created by Enterprise Ireland are outside Dublin and 80% of the jobs created by local enterprise offices are outside Dublin. This is really significant because what is crucial in terms of closing the gap between better-off regions and less well-off regions is good well-paid jobs and that is our strategy.

Deputy Marian Harkin

The Taoiseach would be right if we were talking about Irish regions but I never mentioned the comparison with Irish regions. I mentioned the comparison with European regions when we speak of GDP. Yes, our GDP figures are skewed here, but not across the EU. We are 52% of the European average. I am not even talking about how far behind we are being compared to the southern, midlands and eastern regions.

The Taoiseach knows that we have a real problem. It is not just GDP. Look at the European Commission report on the competitiveness index. The reason we are so far behind is poor infrastructure provision and the fact that our innovation capabilities are not even close to where they should be. I mentioned the Northern and Western Regional Assembly. Will the Taoiseach meet with it? It has solutions and ideas that can contribute and would make a real difference. There is no point in me getting up here every couple of months, talking about what the problems are and quoting figures ad nauseam. What we need is for the Government to work with the regional assembly to find solutions.

The Taoiseach

If the assembly requests a meeting in the normal way, I will certainly give it favourable consideration but it is not my practice to agree to meetings in the Chamber. It is not fair on other people or bodies that do not have a TD to make the request for them in the Chamber.

The point I was making as is often made to me is that GDP is not everything, whether it is comparisons within Ireland or the EU. I challenge the Deputy to look at average incomes and how the north west of Ireland region compares with average incomes across Europe. I challenge her to do the same with regard to employment levels. This is a Government that is investing in rural Ireland and our regions. I will provide three small examples. One is the national broadband plan, which is a €3 billion investment connecting every home, farm and business in the country to fibre. We are probably one of the only countries in the world that is doing it.

We did it against official advice and against a lot of opposition. We did it because we believe in rural Ireland and regional Ireland. With the technical universities, including the Atlantic TU in Sligo, every region in Ireland now has a university.

Deputy Ged Nash

The north east does not.

The Taoiseach

There are now university towns all over Ireland and that will make a big difference into the future. There is also the Department of Rural and Community Development, which I established in 2017, which was initially under Deputy Ring and is now under the Minister, Deputy Humphreys. Everyone acknowledges the amount of investment we are seeing in our towns, villages and rural counties, whether it is enterprise hubs, remote working hubs, surf schools or food hubs. There is huge investment in every county in the country.

Deputy Marian Harkin

Figures do not lie.