I move:
That Dáil Éireann takes note of the Third Report of the Select Committee on Crime, Lawlessness and Vandalism: The decriminalisation of certain offences under the Vagrancy Acts."
To put the motion in perspective, the committee have already brought one report to the Dáil, that was the report on neighbourhood watch. I am glad to be able to say that we have had very good relations with the Garda in relation to that report and that the pilot studies which the Minister and the Commissioner have been engaging in are going fairly well. We are anxious that these studies would advance more rapidly during the months ahead.
We consider our first report to have been very valuable. The report we are talking of today is our third report. Our second report deals with the role of customs officers in the control of drug trafficking. That report will be before the House shortly though in a sense it has been before the House to the extent that it was availed of during discussions on the Misuse of Drugs Act.
We expect a further report, our report on controls on private security firms to be finalised, if not next week, during the following week. Another report that we will be bringing before the House relates to our visit to Scotland Yard. In that respect we have prepared a fairly detailed report which we think will be useful to Members. That, too, will be available next week.
There are being prepared also by the committee reports on three other areas. One of these is on the matter of drug-related crime. Members will appreciate that this is a very important area. It is one the committee considered should receive priority. We have also almost completed our report on community policing which is the much broader aspect of policing in the community and beyond the narrower concept of neighbourhood policing. We have brought before the House already our report on the neighbourhood watch system. We are also studying the question of Garda recruitment and training. It is in this whole context that we bring this report to the House today.
I am pleased, as chairman of the committee, to have the opportunity of moving this motion. I wish to pay tribute to all members of the committee for the effort they are putting into their work and for the forthright way in which they are discussing the problems confronting us. It is as a result of that attitude that a number of important matters have been highlighted and I am confident that we are making reasonable progress in the various areas.
The fact that sleeping rough and begging are criminal offences was brought to the immediate attention of the committee by the Simon Community. In their submission they recommended that these offences be removed from the area of criminal law. The Simon Community devote their energies to the care and welfare of homeless people. They are of the view that begging and sleeping rough are in the main social problems and should be dealt with by society in a humane and sympathetic manner. They estimate that there are about 3,000 homeless in the Twenty-six Counties and a further 1,000 in Northern Ireland. As no official figures are available it is not possible for us to comment on the Simon figures. However, the Simon Community meet more than 1,000 homeless people in their night shelters each year, while other homeless can be found sleeping rough or in hostels or other night shelters. They are found, too, in prisons and in psychiatric units of hospitals. It is clear from the evidence that the Simon Community put before us that there is a serious problem in this area.
The Vagrancy Act of 1829 which applies to Ireland contains various provisions in relation to other matters as well as begging and sleeping rough. The Act provides:
Every person wandering abroad or placing himself or herself in any public place, street, highway or passage to beg or gather alms or causing or procuring or encouraging any child or children so to do, shall be deemed an idle and disorderly person within the meaning of this Act, and.... Every person wandering abroad and lodging in any barn or out-house, or in any deserted or unoccupied building, or in the open air, or under a tent, or in any cart or wagon not having any visible means of support and not giving a good account of himself or herself... shall be deemed to be a rogue and a vagabond, within the true intent and meaning of this Act.
Both these offences carry a maximum penalty on first conviction of a fine or three months imprisonment.
The Garda Commissioner's Report on Crime for 1983 shows that proceedings were taken against 412 people under the Vagrancy Acts. While begging accounted for 164 proceedings a breakdown of the other offences is not available but it is considered that sleeping rough accounted for a significant proportion.
It seems that the Simon contention that being homeless is a crime is borne out in that people are being pursued by the Garda under the criminal law. However, society feels that it must be protected from the activities of persons who beg and sleep rough, especially if this is done persistently. We are all aware of instances where the Garda do not prosecute people but rather request them to move on and to desist from begging. While many people may have to beg in order to acquire food, there are others who have some means of support and yet resort to begging. Some form of sanction must be available to society to deal with offenders who in certain cases cause more than just a visual offence. Some, by their persistence, can jostle and intimidate people.
There are many other individuals and organisations involved in helping the homeless. None of these made any submissions to the committee on this topic and the members felt that it would be very worthwhile to hear what they have to say on this question. Do they see a problem with the law as it stands at present? Is it possible that a more discretionary approach to the exercise of the powers under this Act would alleviate the problems encountered at present and yet leave the legislation in existence to cope with the more serious or persistent type of offender? If any person is interested in letting us have their views they should communicate with the Clerk to the Committee.
After our meeting with representatives of the Simon Community we began to consider the views they expressed to the committee on the desirability of decriminalising begging and sleeping rough. We learned that this topic was also under consideration in the Law Reform Commission and that progress had been made towards producing a working paper. We felt that it would be very useful if the deliberations of this body were available to us before we took a definite line in relation to these offences. Members of the House generally had asked for views in relation to this area since the question was raised and they were looking for background material.
With regard to the position in the United Kingdom, the laws relating to vagrancy and other street offences were considered by a Home Office working party on vagrancy and street offences who produced a working paper in 1974 and a report in 1976. The Home Affairs Committee of the House of Commons using the working paper and report as a starting point, considered this topic, had meetings with the police and organisations for the homeless and produced a report on vagrancy offences in May 1981.
The position was the same as exists here at present except that in the case of sleeping rough an amending Act in 1935 provides that the defendant must have declined to use free shelter or must have caused damage. The Home Affairs Committee went on to accept that the criminal law must play a part in controlling the activities of beggars and vagrants. However, they recommended that the penalty of imprisonment for such offences should be abolished and this was done in the United Kingdom Criminal Justice Act of 1982. Therefore, the United Kingdom have abolished the penalty of imprisonment for such offenders.
Because of the fact that the Law Reform Commission are examining this topic the committee decided that it should await the outcome of their deliberations before taking any final decision on the proposal to decriminalise begging and sleeping rough. Nevertheless, the members are concerned that while there is often a need to remove persons from begging and sleeping rough there should be an alternative to imprisonment. Some intermediate facilities, such as a hostel, should be available and only in the event of failure to avail of such facilities should resort be had to imprisonment.
An excellent example of society dealing with these problems, rather than through the criminal law, is the action taken by the Dublin Itinerant Settlement Committee, with the financial support of the Eastern Health Board, to provide accommodation at Trudder House for boys and at Derrlossary for girls in County Wicklow. The majority of these young people had formerly been begging and sniffing glue in O'Connell Street. They came from broken homes in both the itinerant and settled communities. They have an example by providing facilities and staff and have proved that a number of those glue sniffers and young people who are wandering about and begging, especially in O'Connell Street, can find a new way of life. This was done first for boys and, very recently, for girls. They have been running this programme for the past few years and it is working very well. I hope it continues to be successful, although one cannot expect miracles. I have no doubt that this is the direction we should be taking not only in this area but in other social problem areas where people are sleeping rough and begging. These young people now have an opportunity to grow, learn and develop in a positive and constructive environment. The majority no longer constitute a legal problem. The report also indicates where solutions might be found for many adults who are at present begging and sleeping rough and to whom the Vagrancy Acts can be applied.
This report is submitted to Dáil Éireann for the information of Members and to provide some background information in relation to the law on this topic as it stands at present. It will enable Members of either House to be better informed of the position in relation to the offences of begging and sleeping rough if and when such matters arise in either House. We have left our final conclusions on that matter until we receive the report which we believe will be available shortly from the Law Reform Commission.