The first business on the Order Paper is the consideration of the Governor-General's Salary and Establishment Bill. This is a certified Money Bill. Probably the Seanad will agree that this Bill might pass through all its Stages if some Senator would kindly move a motion to that effect.
GOVERNOR-GENERAL'S SALARY AND ESTABLISHMENT BILL, 1923.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
I beg to move the suspension of the Standing Orders in order to pass the Bill through all its Stages.
I beg to second.
Question put, and agreed to.
Question proposed:—"That this Bill be read a Second Time."
I know we have no power to vary this Bill, it being a Money Bill, but I wish to raise a point which concerns the form of our Public Accounts. If you take the Estimates, under which portion of the Governor-General's salary is provided for, you will find that they do not show the entire cost of the Governor-General's Establishment. That applies, I think, to almost every Department in the State, as set out in the present Estimates. There is a foot-note in the Estimates that further expenditure in relation to the Governor-General's Establishment will be found under the Central Fund, Rates on Government Property, Vote 17; Public Works and Buildings, Vote 11; Stationery Office, Vote 25; and Post Office, Vote 59, although I might mention that telegrams and telephones which, presumably, are also on the Post Office Vote, are specifically provided for in the Estimate.
I raise this point merely as an illustration of the very confused form in which our Public Accounts are now drawn. It is impossible, as a business matter, ever to tell from the form of the Public Accounts — which, I admit, the Government have inherited—the true cost of any Service. Large portions of the cost are concealed in other Votes, and when you come to make a systematic examination of any Service you only get its partial cost. Having made these remarks, which I hope will come to the notice of the Government, I hope that steps will be taken — nothing can be done hurriedly— to recast the whole system of our Public Accounts, so that the true and business cost of any Service may be set out on the face of any Estimate, and also on the Appropriation Account which, in due course, must follow the Estimate.
I would like to make a few remarks about this matter, which. I hope, will not be considered any discourtesy to the Governor-General. It is a matter of very considerable constitutional importance, although some people may think it a matter of words. Words are very important at the present time. We have had a war about words during the last year, and a good many Deputies, elected by constituencies, have refused to take their places on account of certain words. Therefore, I think we ought to be very careful how we use words. A great writer once said they are sometimes like the fabled dragon's teeth that sprang up as armed men. They have done so in this case. The Governor-General, in his address to the Seanad and the Dáil a few months ago, read a telegram from the King which, I presume, was drawn up by the King's English Ministers. He also read a reply to him, in which he used the same words as were used in the other telegram. I do not know, but I presume, that that answer was drawn up by our own Ministers. Anyway, the words were exactly similar. I should like to call attention to these words, because it is a matter of very considerable importance.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
Do these words appear in this Bill?
They do not appear in the Bill.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
Then the discussion would not be relevant to this Bill. The motion before the Seanad is, that the Bill be read a Second Time. If there were any words in the Bill to which you took exception your appropriate remedy would be to move that they be deleted, but, I am quite satisfied that a discussion which would turn on certain words, used elsewhere, and under other conditions, would not be in order.
With all due respect to your decision, I would like to point out that motions of this sort are generally occasions on which the actions of certain Ministers, and so on, are often discussed in other assemblies. Perhaps, under these circumstances this might be allowed.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
I really could not establish a precedent of that kind. There are other ways and opportunities of approaching a matter of this kind if you wish to do so, but it would be quite inappropriate on the matter before the Seanad.
You might remember I tried to bring this matter up on other occasions, and for one reason or another, which we need not go into now, I was unable to do so. I do not know that there will be any other opportunity likely to occur.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
If you were to search the Standing Orders you might find one. However, that is not for me. All I can do is to rule to the best of my ability, and I am satisfied that any such discussion on this motion will be out of order.
Question put and agreed to.
Question: "That this Bill be considered by the Seanad in Committee," put and agreed to.