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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 17 Apr 2024

School Enrolments: Motion

I move:

“That Seanad Éireann:

recognises that:

- the system put in place by the Department of Education has been a largely successful model for planning school places up until recently;

- the Department of Education is aware of enrolment pressures and is engaging with second-level schools in the affected areas to share application data to determine the full extent of the crisis;

- the Department and the Minister for Education are working tirelessly to ensure that all young people have an offering of a school place for the upcoming 2024/2025 academic year;

notes that:

- preliminary assessments indicate that duplication of applications to schools, as well as applications from students from outside local areas, are contributing to enrolment pressures;

- enrolment pressures in built-up urban areas and commuter towns are forcing many parents to travel long distances to find available schools;

- some students have had to avail of home tutoring as a measure of last resort while they await a school placement;

- through no fault of students and their families, many are being left behind on their education journey while they await a school placement in their catchment area;

- not attending school has a very negative impact on students’ educational and social development;

acknowledges:

- the investment made by the Minister in schools capital projects across the country in response to the increase in demand for school places in certain areas in recent years;

- the provision of home tutors and tutoring hours for students awaiting a school placement is positive but it is not adequate for the educational and social development of students;

- the Department of Education is working hard to ensure that all students are allocated a place in a school in their catchment areas;

- the Minister of Education is aware of this problem and is committed to ensuring that it is resolved quickly to provide education to all students across the country;

further acknowledges that:

- notwithstanding improvements, the scarcity of mainstream primary and second-level places, and places for children with additional needs and special classes, puts huge financial, psychological and other unnecessary stresses on parents who are already stretched as parents of children with additional needs;

- the burden of application to several schools should not fall exclusively on parents;

calls on the Government to:

- use the data available to the Department of Education’s advance planning unit, such as house building and child benefit figures, to predict shortages of places in primary and second-level schools and plan accordingly for these;

- implement a centralised school places application system whereby students in primary and second-level apply to one centralised application system for schools in their dedicated catchment area and thereby avoid duplication of applications; there are some good examples of this e.g. Limerick, and also a pilot program in Newbridge, Co Kildare;

- implement a similar system for applications to special schools to identify the best school suited for the child, while also reducing the toll on parents applying to several schools;

- provide further resourcing to increase the provision of school capital projects

I second the motion.

I thank the Leader for facilitating this Private Members' motion and thank the Minister for making herself available to come to the House to discuss this important topic. I can appreciate how busy she is as she engages with all the different matters that come before her desk. The motion recognises that the system that has been put in place by the Department has been pretty successful until relatively recently, in my experience. I know the Minister is aware of enrolment pressures, particularly in high-growth areas and commuter areas. I know the Department is engaging with second level schools to try to share application data to determine the full extent of where we are.

I have engaged extensively with the Minister and the Department on school places at second level in and around Newbridge and Kildare town in south Kildare. I want to acknowledge that this issue is not confined to my area. It is replicated across the country, particularly in areas which have had large population growth in recent years. From talking to parents and schools, I know there are countless children aged 11 and 12 who are very anxious and worried about where they will go to school next year. This has been happening over recent years. I have raised the hurt, stress and fear experienced by parents and students because they were not successful in securing a second level place in their communities or their school of choice. I have received quite a lot of correspondence on this in recent years. One parent told me that out of their child’s class of 29 pupils, five did not get places in schools. It is shocking that there are children sitting in a class not knowing where they will go to secondary school. One can only imagine the stress or anxiety this is causing when all the other friends are chatting and getting excited about places. This person’s son was totally alienated. Another parent wrote of how they were in complete limbo as to what to do. Their daughter was to start secondary school in the next year but as places were given out, she was the only child in her class to have not been offered a place. This parent said they had no idea what to do or who to turn to. It is particularly difficult where people move into a town, particularly in the commuter belt, where the child does not have siblings or a parent who went to the school. They feel they are being disadvantaged.

I know the Department is engaged in this. I know things have improved in south Kildare over the last two years but we need to see a more co-ordinated approach. Many parents are hugely frustrated because their child has no designated place. They are also very frustrated with the haphazard and somewhat chaotic process that they have to follow in some towns. We all know the impact that duplicate applications can have on the process. They can result in huge waiting lists that cause unnecessary stress because they are not truly reflective of the demand. This is the nub of the issue. I appreciate that it is very difficult for the Minister’s Department to step in to co-ordinate those.

A great deal is left to the principal and the board of management. A more streamlined approach is crucial, especially for large urban areas. I understand that the sharing of data between schools has been effective in identifying school place requirements in certain areas. This has worked well in Limerick and Ennis. In the majority of areas, sufficient school places are, I am told, available to meet the needs of children. That may well be, but when children and their families do not know until the start of the secondary school year, it causes problems. The Department is working to strengthen its enrolment approach for the 2025-26 school year and in the context of future admissions processes. A common applications system has worked well in Limerick city and Ennis, and a pilot programme has been put in place in the Newbridge area. I am still waiting for feedback on the latter. The provision of school places to meet the needs of children and young people in primary and post-primary school, including those with special educational needs, is a priority for the Minister, but it has to be an absolute priority in terms of how we plan going forward.

Since the Minister took office in 2020, the Department of Education has invested in the region of €4.5 billion in schools. That is massive, including the completion of over 800 schools building projects and construction under way on 300 others. That is significant investment, but some schools in the catchment areas I am talking about still await final sign-off, such as Newbridge Patrician Secondary School, which has plans to expand to up to 1,000 pupils from fewer than 700 at the moment. The process seems to be quite slow.

The recent agreement on medium-term capital allocations allows us to move forward with plans to expand the number of available places. That is important. The pressures parents face when seeking special education placements for their children is also significant. This year, the number of SENOs will increase to 120. That is important. We still have situations, though, where places are not available for children and their parents are going through an extremely stressful time. As politicians, we all hear week in and week out about how parents of children with additional needs feel they have to fight for everything and battle the system at every turn to receive the support their children need to live up to their full potential.

I accept the roll-out of a centralised application system for special education could pose challenges in terms of catering for students with different and unique needs, but something needs to be put in place to make the process easier for families involved. Key to solving the challenges relating to school admissions will be continued delivery of additional capacity and progression of large-scale capital projects such as those I mentioned. Delivery must be fast-tracked in order to meet the growing need.

It is fair to say that not everybody would like a central application process. Parents still feel strongly about having choice for their children. Choice is extremely important, particularly for those who live in larger areas, but the reality is that many parents are not getting any choice whatsoever. If we were able to give an element of choice to parents on behalf of the children to prioritise one school over another, etc., that could still happen but it would happen at a faster rate and we could ensure there are adequate places for children leaving sixth class to go into secondary schools.

I appreciate the Minister being here to listen to this. I will hand over to my colleague Senator Byrne.

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire. I thank the Minister for taking this important issue raised by my colleague Senator O'Loughlin. The Minister will be aware that the transition from primary to secondary school should be as smooth as possible, but where a student is uncertain of having a second level place, it is stressful for the individual and their family. As Senator O'Loughlin mentioned, this is quite common in areas of rapid growth. We have experienced it in Gorey, north Wexford, particularly when there was pressure on the excellent Gorey Community School and Creagh College, but the Minister sanctioned the Gorey Educate Together Secondary School, which relieved some of the pressure at the time. I will probably be coming back to the Minister looking for a fourth second level school, given the pace of growth, within the next five years.

No pressure. There is a challenge whereby individual schools have their own recruitment and application systems. If a student applies, say in the case of Gorey, to each of the three schools and is offered a place in each, they normally have a period in which they have to make up their mind. For certain students who have not been offered places, it is concerning to be told they are on a waiting list. It is worrying to them and their family. You can give them some comfort by saying eventually the schools will get through the waiting lists but when they see their friends getting school places, for a 12-year-old, which is the normal age we are talking about, that is a worrying experience. In other areas where there is a real tightness on school places and no guarantee of a place at the end of that process, that is very worrying.

I am aware of the central applications system operating in locations including Limerick. I understand it works reasonably well but I would be interested in hearing the perspective of the Department. Can schools get over the issue around being permitted to share data? It is useful, even in the absence of a formal system, if there is a way for parents and families to consent to data being shared so two local schools can chat to each other to work out the number of duplicates and arrange to contact the relevant people to let them know. The real worry is for those not offered any school place. To be told they are on a waiting list is really stressful.

This should be a relatively easy problem to resolve, though I know the Minister will say not everything is easy, but for parents and, particularly, children left in limbo, the easier we can make it, the better. I hope the Minister's response will address some of those specific concerns.

I know the Minister is under time pressure and has to leave, so I will let her respond now and then we will go to the other speakers.

I have another commitment I have to leave for. I will come in now and stay for as long as I can for other contributions.

I thank the House for the opportunity to be here. I thank Senators O'Loughlin and Byrne for proposing and seconding the motion. It gives me an opportunity to set out the range of actions being taken by the Department of Education to plan for and deliver additional school capacity.

I assure the House that it is an absolute priority for the Department to ensure every child in the State has access to a school place appropriate to their needs. We are continually investing in existing and new schools to ensure this is the case. Since 2020 my Department has invested in the region of €4.5 billion in schools, involving the completion of more than 800 school building projects.

Construction is under way on approximately 300 different projects, all at various stages. This will include 31 new school buildings. These 300 projects currently at construction involve a total State investment of over €1.2 billion.

As part of a review of the national development plan allocations, Government recently approved new medium-term capital allocations for the Department of Education. This allows us to move forward with plans to further expand the number of available places across the school system. In this context, it is planned that close to 90 projects currently at tender stage, including a further 28 new school buildings, will be authorised to proceed to construction over the course of 2024 and early 2025. We have already issued letters of intent for some of those projects, and more will follow. In total, around €800 million will be invested in these projects under the Department's large-scale capital programme, an additional accommodation scheme for essential classroom accommodation.

Between them, these projects will provide over 10,000 additional and replacement post-primary school places, more 350 additional and replacement primary classrooms and almost 150 classrooms for children and young people with special education needs. This significant additional delivery and oncoming capacity is a critical part of the Department's work to ensure that there is sufficient provision across the country in the context of school places. This ongoing capital investment is underpinned by a robust forward-planning approach to school place provision.

The Department uses a geographical information system to anticipate school place demands across 314 school planning areas. Information from a range of sources is used, and those sources include child benefit data, school enrolment data and CSO data, while information on residential development activity is also utilised for this purpose and that is a consequence of engagement with local authorities on the ground. Project Ireland 2040 population and housing targets also inform my Department's projects on school place requirements. As stated, there is extensive engagement with local authorities, management bodies, school patrons, etc.

I would like to briefly set out some of the current enrolment rends and projects that are relevant to our planning. There are 1 million learners across 4,000 schools right across the country. At a national level, Ireland has been experiencing growth in overall post-primary enrolments, and this is projected to continue in many parts of the country for the next number of years before beginning to decline. However, first year enrolments nationally are expected to have peaked in this particular school year, and will begin to decline next year. This information is obviously important as we forward plan. At national level, there will be 10,000 more first year places available for the 2024-25 school year than there are children in sixth class. At primary level, total enrolments are projected to decline by approximately 100,000, or almost one fifth, over the next decade.

Of course, there is significant regional and local variation in enrolment trends and projections, with residential construction activity one of the most significant influencing factors. This means that even as enrolments begin to decline nationally, we can still expect to see increasing demand at primary and post-primary level in particular towns and areas. This is fully factored in to the Department's forward planning approach.

Notwithstanding strong forward planning and the scale of expanded capacity already delivered and in train, enrolment pressures may arise in a very limited number of school planning areas from year to year. This must be seen in the context of an annual enrolment process that caters for some 140,000 pupils at junior infants and first year level, and that on the whole transacts smoothly. However, while there are 314 school planning areas right across the country, typically only about ten of those areas require follow-up engagement from the Department with schools and patrons to work through mainstream school place solutions for the following year. I acknowledge, however, that there is concern about enrolment pressures in certain areas but it is important to note that this may not necessarily be as a result of school place deficits in a town or area. It may be driven by other factors such as duplication of applications, applications from outside the local area and school-of-choice factors. The Department's priority and responsibility is to ensure that schools in an area can, between them, meet the school place need.

I would briefly like to look at County Kildare, as it has been referenced. More than €250 million has been invested in school infrastructure in Kildare since 2020 alone, reflecting a strong focus on alignment of school place availability with the significant residential development across the county. Our data shows that in County Kildare overall, there are approximately 400 more first year places available for September 2024 than there are children in sixth class. In nine of the 14 school planning areas in County Kildare, there are more first year places available for 2024-25 than there are children in sixth class in primary school who are due to go to secondary. When school planning areas are clustered to take account of typical enrolment patterns, it can be seen that there are more first year places than sixth class students across each area in the county. That said, it is acknowledged that enrolment pressures have arisen in specific areas, and the Department has been working very closely with patrons, management bodies and schools to work solutions in a number of cases where additional places are required for the coming school year.

The motion references a common application system that has worked very effectively in Limerick and Ennis. Significant additional post-primary capacity has been added in both locations in recent years, including the establishment of two new post-primary schools in Limerick, and the expansion of Ennis Community College. While the admissions process still takes a number of months to work through, the combination of the additional capacity provided and the co-ordinated approach to admissions means that these are excellent examples of a streamlined process for schools and families. Many other schools at both primary and post-primary level also have various local co-ordination arrangements in place, and this type of co-ordination is very helpful. I welcome such initiatives.

There would be challenges in scaling the common application system model to operate at a national level, including the complexity and factoring in of each school's unique admissions policy, to which they are entitled. In both Limerick city and Ennis, the process applies to a discreet geographic area with a defined list of relevant schools. At a national level, there is significant movement into and out of school planning areas for post-primary education, particularly in Dublin areas. Applying a CAS-style process can be challenging in that context. However, the Department has run a number of pilots in this regard, and that, in conjunction with the common application system in Limerick and Ennis, will have the potential to assist with the strengthening of the admissions approach in other areas for future years, and there will be enormous learning from it.

Other actions that are being advanced for the 2025 admissions process include engagement with schools and education partners to better align the timeframes for application, and to strengthen data-sharing arrangements. As part of planning for September 2024, data on applications for admissions has been shared with my Department by post-primary schools in areas of potential challenge. The sharing of this data from the outset of the admissions process last year has been really effective in enabling the Department and schools to differentiate perceived pressures due to factors such as duplication of applications, as already referenced, and the popularity of particular schools from real school place shortfalls. In the majority of areas, through the work of schools, patrons, management bodies and the Department, there are sufficient school places available to meet the needs of children in the area. Additional places have already been made available in some area where required, and further solutions will continue to be worked through.

I want to sincerely say that I am acutely aware of the anxiety that can be experienced by individual children and by their families while they await confirmation of school places. It is for that reason that we do want to speed things up much earlier, and we do want the sharing of information. I want to assure families that all children who have not yet received an offer of a school place for 2024-25 will be provided with a place. The Department is also working with schools and patrons to assess any deficits for the 2025-26 school year, and will continue to work to ensure that additional capacity is provided where required.

I would also like to take the opportunity to reference special education, as it has been referred to here too. To the greatest extent possible, students with special educational needs are supported in mainstream education settings through additional resources such as access to special education teachers, special needs assistants and additional supports. We now have 40,000 professionals working in the area of special education, more than we have ever had before. That is as it should be, and we would like to do more as well.

Where mainstream enrolment is not possible, students with special educational needs are educated in special classes or special schools. The Department continues to engage with the National Council for Special Education, NCSE, with regard to the forward planning of new special classes and additional school places. This work involves a detailed review of statistical data with a view to forecasting demand for special class places, an analysis of available school accommodation, consideration of improved data-sharing arrangements and a particular focus on the provision of special classes at post-primary level. This engagement is bearing fruit for the 2023-24 school year. The NCSE sanctioned 391 new special classes, including 255 at primary level and 136 at post-primary level. We now, in the system, have almost 3,000 special classes, two thirds of which have been delivered under this present Government during the last four years.

The 2023-24 school year has also seen the establishment of two new special schools, one in Carrigtwohill in east Cork, and one in Dublin 7. In the four years during which the Government has been in office, seven special schools have been delivered.

Along with these two new special schools, more than 300 additional students have been accommodated in special schools compared with previous school years. In addition four new special schools for 2024-25 have also been announced. They will be in Meath, Kildare, Wexford and Limerick.

I would like to conclude by underlining again the overriding priority attached by the Department of Education, through our forward planning, our strong delivery pipeline and ongoing collaboration with parents, management bodies and schools to ensuring a school place for every child. This has always been, and will continue to be, at the very heart of our approach.

I thank the Minister. I know she is under time pressure this morning but we appreciate her being here today. I acknowledge the work of the former Minister of State, Deputy Madigan who had special responsibility for special education and inclusion. The Minister of State, Deputy Naughton is taking on that role.

I very much welcome this Private Members' motion tabled by Fianna Fáil on school enrolment. The Minister spoke about a number of elements in her opening statement. She mentioned investment and how 100,000 additional new places are coming at primary and post-primary levels. That is an incredible achievement during this Government. She also spoke about the additional classrooms for special educational needs, of which there will be 150 and then she spoke about the planning system.

I might bring it back to areas that are still under pressure. This focused a lot on post-primary, and particularly city and urban areas, but the Minister will be aware that in smaller towns, there are still pressures at primary school level. Something we have often spoken about is how the building of new schools for existing schools is a challenge. Scoil an Chroi Naofa is still going through design stage. What will the Department of Education do to support principals who are going through this process where it has taken 27 years and is still not at stage 3? That is a real challenge. While we are looking at the national development plan which is expanding this. The Minister has visited Ballinasloe and seen the wonderful new classrooms in Creagh National School and St. Teresa's Special School. Again St. Teresa’s has approval for a new school but is still working from an old space. The Minister has noted many positives here but it is a national development plan. It is balanced regional development. I want to see how towns can expand.

The Minister mentioned residential construction and said it was fully factored in. How is the linkage happening between the local authorities and planning and the Department of Education? I have not seen how we plan ahead so well in an integrated way in my local area.

The Minister said first year enrolments in post-primary peaked this year and will decline next year. Has she any additional information on the regional side of that? Are there parts of the country where that is the case? I want to understand that. We speak here at a national level but the problems come down to local level where schools and post-primary sometimes have challenges. I welcome the amalgamation in my area of two schools that are coming together and the Department of Education is working with them on that.

I thank the Minister for her time. I am sharing time with Senator Currie who is doing a lot of work on this.

I agree with much of the motion from the Fianna Fáil Senators. It chimes with a lot of the issues I have been raising directly with the Minister in here. I wrote an opinion piece about it in The Irish Times yesterday. It is a huge issue in Dublin West. It is about capacity but also about having a better system for admissions and enrolment. There are parents in Dublin 15 who will apply for three schools and get letters back telling them they are on a waiting list of hundreds and they do not secure places for months on end. There is a better way. It is good to see the Minister acknowledge that today and see its merit.

Within the Education (Admission to Schools) Act 2018, in section 9, there is a provision for the Minister to direct boards of schools to co-operate with each other in relation to admissions processes. The Minister acknowledged that it is a good idea, particularly where there is duplication of admissions, where there are schools that are very popular and you get a lot of people crossing over in catchments and driving up those waiting lists. I think the Minister should take the step to set up exploratory talks with the patrons and boards of management because their role in this is key.

The Minister spoke about admissions policies. The individual admissions policies do not need to be an issue here because she can introduce a common applications process for secondary schools that complements the schools admissions policies. You are just streamlining the system so that they have a common application system, common form and common date where they make their submission. They can still retain their admissions policies but prioritise the children who have specifically stated a preference for that school. There is a way to do this but it will involve exploratory talks.

The problem with relying on schools to do it is that we have 11 to 13 different schools in Dublin 15, if you include the private schools. Their admissions policies are fragmented and confusing. By the Department playing a role in setting this up and creating a committee, it would allow co-ordination and streamlining and would speed up the whole system. It would also allow the sharing of information that is required about special classes and the transition from primary to secondary school.

There is an issue with capacity and demand for particular schools. Those things are incredibly important but so too is rectifying the disjointed and chaotic lottery system of the admissions process.

I welcome the Minister and thank Fianna Fáil colleagues and Senators for tabling this very important motion on school places. It is very timely. I have contacted the Minister a number of times about issues in Kildare South. My colleague mentioned that already this evening. This is not a new problem there. The Minister spoke about the new model but I contend it has not worked for us in Kildare South. The motion states the model has not been working lately, and I agree.

One of the biggest concerns about school places and especially secondary school has been in the Kildare town and Newbridge area. I have raised this with the Minister before and we have discussed it on Zoom meetings and in a Commencement matter but it remains an issue. I am still contacted regularly by parents in the area. As my colleague said, these are distressing phone calls, as the Minister has acknowledged. I welcome that acknowledgement. When someone has a child in primary school and all their friends have a school place and they have not even heard where they are going it is very stressful on families. It is an issue which is ongoing for us in Kildare South.

There has been some good news which has to be acknowledged too. The Minister announced the new school in Magee Barracks in Kildare town to incorporate the Curragh post-primary school. Recently, we heard that the site had been purchased for the school. According to a reply from the Department to colleagues, phase 1 will deliver accommodation for 425 students, phase 2 will deliver the remaining accommodation to provide for what was announced, that is the 1,000 pupils. However, the project is still at stage 2 of design and detailed design. I believe further information has been requested on the planning permission which was submitted in October 2023. People are looking to know when that school will commence. The Minister might come back to me with a timeframe on the school in Kildare town because it is cause for concern on those in the Newbridge and Kildare town areas.

The Minister will be very familiar with the issue of St. Farnan's school in Prosperous. I have been contacted on this by a number of parents as well. Again, people are struggling for places and it is stressful for families. I know the Minister has met colleagues from north Kildare.

There is a boundary issue in south Kildare, where I live, and a number of people have come to me about it. I note the Minister is dealing with the issue but it is stressful for families. This is about school enrolment, so if there is an update on that, I would appreciate it. As my colleague mentioned, Patrician college in Newbridge is an issue I regularly get contacted about.

Application duplications were mentioned by all contributors tonight. I note the motion mentions there is a model for this in Limerick as well as a pilot scheme in Newbridge. In all the replies I read and in the conversations I have had with the Minister, she has mentioned that duplication is probably the number one topic. I understand from what Senator Currie said that there may be a solution on this. The Minister said it would be difficult. I ask her to revisit this because it is the one issue I hear about when I speak to parents. In their opinion, they have to put down the names of their children and loved ones for a number of different schools in order to obtain a single place. That is an issue for many families in south Kildare. I think the issue could be solved by a national register, which has been mentioned by colleagues tonight. The Department should look into that more and develop more pilot schemes to ensure it happens.

The Minister and colleagues have mentioned - I recently tabled a Commencement matter in this House on it - the much-needed special school in Kildare South. Many parents have been in contact with me and the Minister about its location. I was told that the location would be in Kildare South because that is where the need is. Lo and behold, a couple weeks ago, we heard that the school would commence in September in Naas, which is in north Kildare, albeit on a temporary basis. I am not sure whether the Minister can confirm it tonight but she might get back to me to confirm the full-time position of that school. It has raised concerns for many people in south Kildare who are travelling long distances and crossing borders to obtain a place for their loved ones.

In the short time I have left, I wish to mention SENOs. I have raised this issue with the Minister on the all-party autism committee and it has been mentioned again tonight. I asked the Minister on that occasion whether the SENOs might co-operate on a larger scale with families who are searching for a special school place for their loved ones. She mentioned and I note that there are a number of SENOs to be employed, but I ask again that they co-operate with families. I deal with families day in, day out who are on the phone day in, day out to 12 or 13 schools across three or four county boundaries. I think the SENOs have an important role to play in assisting those families. In fairness to the Minister, she said that was her ambition in this regard, and I hope she can confirm that tonight.

I welcome this discussion. It is an issue in south Kildare. I thank the Minister for her work to date. I raised some issues that perhaps she or her Department could come back to me on.

I thank Senators O’Loughlin and Malcolm Byrne for tabling the motion. I commend the families and campaigners who have worked tirelessly to ensure that many children have access to education. This motion is welcome because it lays out the bare fact that, once again, hundreds of young people and families are facing confusion and uncertainty about the availability of school places. We need solutions and an explanation of what the Government is doing to address it. We should not merely acknowledge the problem, which we seem to do every year; rather, we should adequately plan how to address it and prevent it from reoccurring in 12 months.

In that vein, I am surprised that we are here again this year. We know the number and the demographic make-up of children in primary school. This is a situation that should be anticipated and prevented yet, once again, we are faced with a situation where students are forced to travel far and wide to find an appropriate and available school, with some left with no choice other than home tutoring. It is beyond reason that many parents and children who, in some cases, live within metres of a school, are not able to secure a school place for the next school year and that three out of four parents are unable to secure spots at oversubscribed secondary schools.

In Sinn Féin's view, it is deeply worrying that the Government solution to date is to shoehorn students into already oversubscribed schools. Oversubscription of schools naturally equates to increased class sizes and a greater pressure on teachers. On top of this, we know the detrimental impact large class sizes can have on a child’s academic and personal development. We need a co-ordinated plan so that every child has a place in an appropriate-sized class that meets their needs.

Supply no longer meets demand, so capacity needs to be increased. However, this future capacity must be determined on the basis of appropriately projected figures – a determination that we fail to see the Government make accurately. There must not only be an acceleration in the delivery of school capital projects but also an addressing of the delays in current capital school projects as well. Both these solutions require the Government to provide adequate funding, which again sadly appears to be lacking in this motion.

No child should continue to be left behind. No parent should feel that they are fighting an entire system to vindicate their child’s access to basic rights. All families should be certain their child will have the opportunity to reach their full educational potential. Sinn Féin is ready to work with the Government on this issue but we have to act now to prevent further unnecessary stress and hardship for young people and their families.

I thank the Minister and welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Ossian Smyth, to the House.

I thank the Minister for outlining the work that has been done and continues to be done by the Government. I thank my colleague, Senator Fiona O’Loughlin, for tabling this motion on school placements. I note that some Senators talked about students going into schools that are already overcrowded, but I think their preference is to go to the schools where their friends are and are in their neighbourhood rather than go farther way, which would have a detrimental effect on them. As the Minister outlined, we have spent much more money not only on the teachers and teacher places, which we need to do because of the growing population, but also on the allocation of special needs assistants into those schools. There is merit in the idea of having a central system where we have a better understanding of how many students are applying in a given area and then trying to work as best we can to get them available places. As was pointed out, it has been done in some areas. It will not work for everybody.

There is much stress and anxiety. That children and babies are being put on lists for various schools in the anticipation of them going into the primary or secondary schools years away is causing stress and anxiety for parents. The system is improving all the time but it needs to improve more. While allocation of money will do a lot to rectify the issues that have been outlined, having better systems will assist parents and give clarity to everybody with regard not only to the students going to primary and secondary school but also to the management of the schools for boards of management, which have much to deal with. This year, every issue is now landing on the doors of schools, including drugs and online abuse. Being principal of a school used to be about education and now they are managing a myriad of societal problems. Anything we can do as outlined in this proposal by my colleague, Senator Fiona O’Loughlin, is of great assistance and merit.

I thank colleagues in Fianna Fáil for tabling this motion.

Being in elected politics since 2004 at council and Oireachtas level, last year was the most difficult I have come across with regard to school enrolment pressures. This coming year also looks somewhat challenging. Hopefully, it will not be as bad. However, I had not experienced this before and certainly not to this level. I am concerned that the issue will be with us for a period of time.

The pressure and stress on parents and, of course, their children is huge. When youngsters come into being teenagers, it is a vulnerable time for them.

Their friends are talking about what school they will go to and they are staying quiet because they are not sure yet what school they will go to. I try to reassure parents by saying that these things always work themselves out, that there will be a school place and that the Department and the school community will come together and ensure their children have places, but that it may take time.

Sometimes the issue is resolved within a month. A lady came to see me in the autumn and the issue was resolved before Christmas, but we had a few cases last year. In one case it was almost September before a school place was found and in another case it was November before the child got a school place. In the latter case a school had to be mandated to provide a place. The issue from the schools' point of view is that they have waiting lists and they cannot be seen to push someone ahead of other children on the waiting list. I understand that. Parents know all these things. They watch the figures and see. However, we have a situation where some children are on a waiting list to move to a different school, yet there are other children who have no school at all. In that case, there was an intervention and it was demanded or requested of the school to ensure the child who had no school place got a place ahead of others. That is important and the right thing to do.

Is it to the detriment of parents to indicate that their children have mild autism? Is that something parents should disclose or should they try to get the school place first and only then - once they have the place - say that their children have mild additional requirements? I am concerned that in certain schools it may not be to the child's or parent's advantage to disclose that. That is a concern I have from experience.

I have raised issues in my community, Moycullen, which has a growing population. The overall parish - not the village itself, but the parish - has a population of more than 5,500 people. There is no secondary school. Pupils travel to Galway city, Oughterard, Spiddal and Knocknacarra. That has been the tradition. I went to school in Galway city, but there is now a growing demand for a secondary school in the community. When I raised this a number of years ago, I was told there were sufficient places in Galway city and that it was not an issue. Last year, when I raised it again, I was told that the Department acknowledged there were now pressures in Galway city and that it was working to provide additional school places. It was indicated that there will be a shortfall of 500 school places, more so on the eastern side of the city towards Athenry. However, those things have knock-on effects because if you cannot get a child into one school, you will keep looking at other schools. Now is the time to look at the needs of the Moycullen area.

I note the motion calls on the Government to use the data available to the Department's advance planning unit, such as house building and child benefit figures, to predict shortages of places. I welcome that, but I thought it was what was done anyway. I thought that the Department's model uses the data, especially registrations of births, the issuance of social welfare or PPS numbers and such things, to indicate where the population growth is. This is not easy because we do not mandate that someone go to a certain school. People may travel to go to the school their father or mother went to, which may not be the closest school. It may be across town. Teachers may also bring their children to school, which somewhat skews the numbers. I do not envy the work of the planning unit in trying to fit these pieces together. People always want to go to what are perceived to be the best schools. The best or most popular schools keep changing so it is hard to manage those things. I will not name any places in Galway because they are all great schools, but there is a perception that some of them are better than others. People want to go to those schools and that creates problems.

This is an important motion. It is a stressful time for parents and their children when they cannot get a school place and the Department needs to try to do better.

I thank the Minister of State for coming to discuss this important issue. I thank my colleagues, Senators O'Loughlin and Malcolm Byrne, for bringing this motion forward. It is an opportune time with September coming up as many people will be looking for school places.

The experience from Limerick has been referred to here by many people. It works most of the time, but not always. That is clear. It took a long time to get it almost right and it is still not perfect. For many years, we were in the news for the wrong reasons when people could not get school places. Senator Kyne mentioned that many people want to go to what are known as the better schools. To me all schools are the same, but some people want to go to the better schools. There were big queues for them and people would not put in an application for certain schools and then some schools were left with empty places while other schools had waiting lists. That is why the common application system was set up in Limerick. There has been a lot of collaboration between the principals of the different schools and, especially in schools known to have longer waiting lists or more applications than there are places, the principals have been proactive in meeting parents, going through the different criteria on their admittance policies and advising parents on whether their children would be successful. That approach has been a success. I had five people last February who were not successful. They have subsequently been able to source a school place and it was done through collaboration and through the education centres. When people fail to receive a place, they apply to the Limerick Education Centre and the education centre works with the principals and schools.

However, in some places we have section 29 cases being taken. There was a case this year where one school changed its admissions policy. Almost a whole class of applicants who had wanted to attend the secondary school of the primary school they were in were told they did not meet the criteria. That got sorted out subsequently because the parents stuck together and took a section 29 case and the children had to be accommodated. There are ups and downs with it, but overall the common application system has worked. However, it boils down to collaboration between the principals of different schools.

I agree with some of the assumptions about some schools. Senator Kyne asked whether parents should declare after their children receive a school place that there may be issues, such as a child having autism or needing an SNA for support. Some schools are very supportive of that and there are many successful ASD units in schools, but from my experience some of the schools sometimes do not want children who have an issue.

I welcome that the former Minister of State, Deputy Madigan, worked with the Minister, Deputy Foley, on the delivery of a new community special school that will open in Limerick in September. This is most welcome. Limerick has been crying out for it for a long time because the criteria around admission to special schools are restrictive. They relate to whether people live within a certain catchment area or live too many miles away from the school. In some cases people have to go to the nearest school, but sometimes that school is not adequate for the needs of the child. That is an area I would like to see being looked at.

The Department should consider rolling out the common application system, but it needs some tweaking for it to be successful. I hope the Department looks at the questions raised by this motion to see how it can work within the criteria to look at rolling the system out across Ireland.

I appreciate we had both Ministers in the House to debate the motion. We all agree that while a lot of work is being done in the area in terms of providing capital funds for building new schools etc., the process of actually building schools needs to be streamlined because we have heard references to this right around the country. Senator Wall and I have spoken about the situation in County Kildare where it takes a long time to procure a site and planning permission and years later we can still be at an early stage in terms of the delivery of the school. There is no doubt the delivery of the capital programme is hugely important in terms of secondary school places, ASD classes and special schools. Equally, there is a very pressing situation with regard to the allocation of secondary school places. We have spoken not just today but ad nauseam on other occasions in the Seanad as well as in the Lower House about situations where children and their families go through months, if not 12 months, agonising about whether they will have a secondary school place or not. More often than not, they will have a place at the end of the process, thankfully, but there is up to 12 months of undue stress. It certainly makes far more sense to have a situation where parents can indicate their school of choice, but to have a streamlined situation where the Department has the population data and data from primary schools and for school capacity and availability. There has to be a process where the Department can help ensure the application process is not as long, is more streamlined and that children, their parents and their schools will know where and when they will have a place.

For example, the Minister, Deputy Foley, mentioned figures that were new to me in terms of the situation in County Kildare. She stated that 400 more first year places will be available in September 2024 than there are sixth class children. That is certainly news to me and in nine of the 14 school planning areas in County Kildare there are more first year places available than there are sixth class children due to leave primary school. That is important information and obviously that is where the Department crunches the numbers. That begs the question as to why it then takes so long to go through an unnecessary process.

Senator Maria Byrne outlined the situation in Limerick. We know it has worked well in Ennis. I understand there will always be some issues so what we need to see is a really good assessment of where this has happened and where it has worked. The project has started in south Kildare but we do not have any definitive data. I feel that this year it seems to be working a little better. Surely there should be the option of being able to use this system in all areas where there is pressure. That does not take away from the need to have our new schools and capital programme and to acknowledge the huge expenditure there is. It is really important. The new schools are amazing. St. Paul's secondary school in Monasterevin is just an incredible school. It is fantastic to see what the students, staff and whole school community are getting in their new building. We just need to see more of them and to see it happen at a faster pace.

Question put and agreed to.

When is it proposed to sit again?

Next Tuesday at 1 p.m.

Cuireadh an Seanad ar athló ar 6.35 p.m. go dtí 1 p.m., Dé Máirt, an 23 Aibreán 2024.
The Seanad adjourned at 6.35 p.m. until 1 p.m. on Tuesday, 23 April 2024.
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